[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
Question for the bigger folks. (Read: mojo_ and company need not reply)
What would you say is the main differences, between bent over-rows performed the way Frank McGrath does them compared to the videos shown in this forum such as bug’s yates-style row? [/quote]
McGrath: Watch from 1.35 onwards (first warm-up, but good camera angle to see how he does them, even with very light weight)
Frank gets into a more bent-over position vs. a yates-ish angle… Yet still uses quite a bit of torso motion there from the hip joint, not just on his top set either but from the first set on.
Both bug in that vid he posted and the OP are not advanced trainees and still have to figure out/perfect their own personal rowing technique etc. But at the end it’s mostly a difference in how well the movement flows and at which angle they’re doing it.
I’m always amazed at how frank’s movements just flow perfectly on most exercises… Check out his animal chest training vids or animal arms (CGP… I made a thread about those before if you need links)… When I bench, I look like I’m about to have a seizure. With Frank, everything looks smooth etc… Weird. Shit, it looks like he’s straining more on the barbell curls than on his 405x12 or 8 or whatever CGP with semi-flared elbows.
Anybody have a vid of Yates doing his supinated-grip BB rows? Couldn’t find any myself, just one where he has a really funny hairstyle and does v-handle cable rows (but there you can see perfectly what he does with his scapulae etc).
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I’ve always done them the way McGrath does them in that same vid you posted. I’m thinking it may be beneficial to switch them up every once in a while.
Would you say that the different techniques would shift the emphasis of the muscles worked? (Of course both would hit the back, but would one, for example, focus more on the upper back as opposed to the mid-back, etc.?) Probably doesn’t really matter anyways.
I agree that the OP and myself should probably work on technique. Like I said, that’s what I’m doing now. Since making that video I dropped the working weight down 50lbs and am working my way to higher weights using tighter form. I feel like you can’t keep progressing this way for too too long, so after awhile, you have to throw in some more body english, and for a period, at least in my own training, I use weights that are more than I would normally be able to with stricter form, but I feel the benefit of handling the heavy weight can be a great one. Thus, I’ll do that for a few weeks, then when I think form has gotten too sloppy (which is about where it’s at in this video), I tighten up the reigns, and so on. I really like McGrath’s form and that’s kind of what I strive for, but obviously, this isn’t possible.
Doing them with a supinated grip (like I’ve started to per Josh’s recommendation), I feel it’s easier to keep a more bent-over position and engage the lats more instead of traps.
Regardless, what I do has been working so far for me and if I had just been keeping form extremely strict my back would probably not be my best bodypart and I may still be rowing 225.
[quote]bugeishaAD wrote:
Hmm, interesting how this thread blew up.
I agree that the OP and myself should probably work on technique. Like I said, that’s what I’m doing now. [/quote]
Now wait a minute! You’re making it sound like this is something like a PROCESS and not a static event that will remain forever…ever…ever…the way it’s like in the video! Shame on you. Clearly you have to have perfect technique before you even start training. No other way to get strong.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
I KNOW what exercises he does, what weights he uses, how many reps he gets every session, what kind of form he used when… I even commented on that video when he first posted it in another thread, which is, if I remember correctly, one of the reasons for his change in rowing technique.
He had a great back even before he altered his technique, both width and thickness wise.
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I want to make sure I understand this correctly… so you know he has done many different exercises at varying rep ranges and with different types of form. Yet you still talk like the only way he built his impressive back (not being sarcastic, it is a great back) is by doing heavy cheat BB rows?
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Funny as it is, I just ran across one of your SAMA posts on swingers. Indeed, you know nothing about the subject (at least you admit that much), yet feel somehow compelled to make comments as if you did.
A few more of those and we have us a pattern.
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This comment shows how little you actually read. I admitted that I didn’t personally know any swingers. I didn’t admit to not knowing anything about swingers. 2 different things.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Oh my, did I hurt your feelings by basically saying that as someone who has no actual experience on the subject, your opinion is kind of useless?
Why don’t you work your way up to a big back first AND THEN tell people how to get there, rather than just regurgitating the usual internet bs everyone’s heard a million times?
Do you also tell brain-surgeons how to do their job because you’ve read some entry-level biology book at some point, and your uneducated guess is that they’re doing it all wrong?
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It seems like YOUR feelings are hurt, champ. If anyone is talking before they know, it’s you. You have no info on me at all to know how much experience I have or how big my back is, yet you go off like you have something to prove. Do you have something to prove big man? If not, then calm down and stop taking shit so personal if someone disagrees with you.
[quote]Therizza wrote:
C_C I’m saddened you didn’t even mention my attempt at humor.
@ retards talking about “form”- use whatever form and weight will make you Grow! There is no “perfect form” in bodybuilding you stupid fucks. Use what works, discard what is useless. [/quote]
That has to be the most empty, cop-out statement ever. Way to suck on CC’s nuts, RZA
It has been like 5 days dude. Get the fuck over it.
Thank you,
Other Members
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I know I know, but I had to take care of some shit, I’ve had this damn window open waiting to have time to reply for like almost a week now. I was gonna actually go through the 3 pages I missed, but you’re right. fuck it
Reading what C_C has to say about training, oops I mean riding his nuts, has done a lot more for my training and progress than listening to the wisdom you share with the board…
There’s a difference between getting general advice from a veteran lifter and jumping in to defend someone who doesn’t need your help on a specific topic (you’re doing both). I don’t want to make anyone think that I’m saying he doesn’t know what he’s talking about, I just don’t think you should cheat for whole sets. That’s really the only point I wanted to make. I don’t think he needs to be parallel to the floor or anything, I just think he should use a weight that he can pull up using his back muscles instead of using most of his body to swing it up for a half rep. (did the OP take the video down?)
[quote]TDub301 wrote:
There’s a difference between getting general advice from a veteran lifter and jumping in to defend someone who doesn’t need your help on a specific topic (you’re doing both). [/quote]
Um… actually I’m just busting your balls. So I’m doing neither.
I really don’t care about this thread. And the only reason I replied in the first place was da Mojo troll. I know when my back is working and when it’s not. And I’ll take my form critiques from people I know have been there, done that.
I don’t wanna get in the middle of the little shindig going on here on page 5, but I wanted to say a couple things:
CC helped me really restructure my how I thought about and approached my training last fall, and I’ve been progressing all the more because of it.
I trained back today, and did underhand barbell rows. Since I created this video (before this thread was made), I had been working on getting more of a bent over position as I want to engage more lat than it looked like I was doing. I watched the back training portion of Blood and Guts right before heading out and was in a really good zone, and I nailed 335 for 6 sexy reps, plus one ugly one.
Now, my back is destroyed.
All I’m saying is that I’ve learned from the video and from some of the comments in this thread and hopefully my back training will improve because of it! (Btw, realllly controlling the negatives on BB rows makes them even more brutal)
[quote]TDub301 wrote:
It seems like YOUR feelings are hurt, champ. If anyone is talking before they know, it’s you. You have no info on me at all to know how much experience I have or how big my back is, yet you go off like you have something to prove. Do you have something to prove big man? If not, then calm down and stop taking shit so personal if someone disagrees with you.[/quote]
Your posts give it all away… I don’t need to be a psychic to figure out your experience level. You focus entirely on the aesthetic aspect of a lift and miss most of the important stuff completely. If you want to bring up your training age, by any chance, that says very little. There are people on here who have been training for 10-20 years and are still stuck in the beginner stage.
As for hurt feelings and taking it personal, well, you’re the one responding to a bunch of old posts, aren’t you?
[quote]bugeishaAD wrote:
(Btw, realllly controlling the negatives on BB rows makes them even more brutal)[/quote]
On a side-note: That controlling-the-negatives part was one of your main issues with arm training (at least from the vids I have seen), how’s that going now? I ought to get back to BOI, I guess.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Funny as it is, I just ran across one of your SAMA posts on swingers. Indeed, you know nothing about the subject (at least you admit that much), yet feel somehow compelled to make comments as if you did.
A few more of those and we have us a pattern.
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This comment shows how little you actually read. I admitted that I didn’t personally know any swingers. I didn’t admit to not knowing anything about swingers. 2 different things.[/quote]
That makes… What kind of difference? If you don’t know any swingers, that means you haven’t done it yourself, either… Which leaves what kind of reliable sources of information for you to have acquired your possible knowledge on the subject from? Documentaries? Internet Articles?
You are just using semantics/nitpicking so you can write your arbitrary rebuttal. Nothing you said really changes anything.