This is a tough discussion due to the evolution of the game
Royce brought BJJ in but probably couldn;t dominate like he did in todays game, yet he deserves a place among the all time greats.
Frank was the first to master the stand up and ground games and evolved the game beyond what it was previously.
Basically my point is that people get all hung up on todays guys yet neglect the birth of the sport (in the US). Everyone would shout “so and so would whoop Royce”. well maybe now, in a sport that requires both stand up and ground skills, and has different rules. But he whooped everyone.
And no RICKSON gracie on the list. probably THE best EVER by anyones measures. Well, either I am showing my age or the posters here are showing theirs.
[quote]BradyZ wrote:
Fedor is a great fighter, and always will be remembered, I think i will also give props to Rickson Gracie as well. I think he and Bas were some of the best fighters around in their time.[/quote]
You know, I just can’t bring myself to include Rickson in a top 10 list of all time best MMA fighters, because frankly, he never beat anyone of mention in MMA. I’d put Royce on there way before I’d put Rickson on there. Now all time best BJJ guys, yeah, he’s proven himself in that endeavor plenty, but MMA, no.
Great point about Rickson. Rickson fought a lot of NHB fights in the day just there was no UFC to popularize him. Actually there was no fighting in the US at the time. Not his fault.
A sport needs to pay homage to it’s roots.
Just like when you say all time best baseball player Babe Ruth and Willie Mays always come up. The babe couldn’t play in todays game but in his day he was the best and deserves mention in the top 5
. The babe couldn’t play in todays game but in his day he was the best and deserves mention in the top 5[/quote]
WHAT??? You’re talking about a guy who could blast homers in un-homer friendly parks and strike people out consistently while eating hotdogs and smoking cigars during the game and partying with hookers all night? Babe Ruth would be just as dominant, if not more so in todays game. Baseball and boxing are the two sports that have seemed to devolve while everyother sport is evolving. Sorry for the hijack.
And no RICKSON gracie on the list. probably THE best EVER by anyones measures. Well, either I am showing my age or the posters here are showing theirs.
[/quote]
Rickson also recently said he would beat Fedor today. He is a self promoting loon, his dubious record aside.
Bas Rutten #4? Using what criteria? His Pancrase fights? His reputation? A lucky win over TK? I like Bas, but this seems a little high.
“The babe couldn’t play in todays game but in his day he was the best and deserves mention in the top 5”
I used to laugh at Ruth’s big belly and scrawny legs and scoff at his fanboy ass kissers, too. He didn’t look like a great athlete. When I read up on him, especially “The Year Babe Ruth Hit 104 Home Runs” by Bill Jenkinson, who spent 25 years researching Ruth, I changed my mind. He was a freak of nature who would dominate in any era, including today’s.
[quote]Jack_Dempsey wrote:
Bas Rutten #4? Using what criteria? His Pancrase fights? His reputation? A lucky win over TK? I like Bas, but this seems a little high.
“The babe couldn’t play in todays game but in his day he was the best and deserves mention in the top 5”
I used to laugh at Ruth’s big belly and scrawny legs and scoff at his fanboy ass kissers, too. He didn’t look like a great athlete. When I read up on him, especially “The Year Babe Ruth Hit 104 Home Runs” by Bill Jenkinson, who spent 25 years researching Ruth, I changed my mind. He was a freak of nature who would dominate in any era, including today’s.
[/quote]
I agree with this post though I don’t understand the logical connection between the two subjects.
And no RICKSON gracie on the list. probably THE best EVER by anyones measures. Well, either I am showing my age or the posters here are showing theirs.
Rickson also recently said he would beat Fedor today. He is a self promoting loon, his dubious record aside.[/quote]
I’ve always liked Rickson, but Fedor-Rickson would be an absolute murder
I’d put Dan Severn on the list simply because he’s 50 and still fighting this year in various MMA events. All these other guys with shorter records like 30-10 or less, people keep mentioning don’t impress me. He’s 85-15-7 and still going. I don’t how many famous fights he’s had but unlike a lot of other supposed legends he’s actually fighting successfully way after he began instead of retiring and living entirely off past fame.
[quote]nothingclever wrote:
I’d put Dan Severn on the list simply because he’s 50 and still fighting this year in various MMA events. All these other guys with shorter records like 30-10 or less, people keep mentioning don’t impress me. He’s 85-15-7 and still going.
I don’t how many famous fights he’s had but unlike a lot of other supposed legends he’s actually fighting successfully way after he began instead of retiring and living entirely off past fame.[/quote]
This is all-time greatest fighter, not a Hall of Fame vote. Robert Parish doesn’t make the top ten of all-time basketball greats just because he played a long time. Severn deserves recognition for his accomplishments and his involvement in the early days of the sport (in America,) but he doesn’t get a mention in the ‘all time best mmafighter’ discussion.
After the events of the past 24 hours, Fedor should be on the top of everyone’s list. There is NO ONE else in ANY SPORT that has ever been as dominant as Fedor is in MMA. The closest I can come up with are guys like Tiger Woods and Michale Schumacher.
But Tiger hasn’t won every major since he turned pro, Schummy didn’t won every F1 race he ever qualified for.
This is crazy. I don’t know about you guys, but I’m going to be telling my fucking grandkids that I lived in the time of Fedor.
I don’t see how there is any question about this. In my mind, the greatest fighter is pretty obvious and it’s not Fedor.
Kazushi Sakuraba was rather soft middleweight and probably could have cut to welterweight–instead he fought primarily at light heavyweight and even heavyweight. He was a bona fide wizard on the ground.
He was years ahead of any competition in his weight class, and ultimately just got muscled around. He was a gritty warrior that found bigger and more powerful competition without hesitation and without ever quitting. And considering his lifestyle, he probably ranks up with BJ Penn as one of the most underdeveloped talents in MMA history.
A guy like him comes around only once or twice in a sports history…and Pride killed him.
[quote]Fiction wrote:
I don’t see how there is any question about this. In my mind, the greatest fighter is pretty obvious and it’s not Fedor.
Kazushi Sakuraba was rather soft middleweight and probably could have cut to welterweight–instead he fought primarily at light heavyweight and even heavyweight. He was a bona fide wizard on the ground. He was years ahead of any competition in his weight class, and ultimately just got muscled around. He was a gritty warrior that found bigger and more powerful competition without hesitation and without ever quitting.
And considering his lifestyle, he probably ranks up with BJ Penn as one of the most underdeveloped talents in MMA history.
A guy like him comes around only once or twice in a sports history…and Pride killed him.[/quote]
jeezus, try this again from an objective standpoint
[quote]slimjim wrote:
jeezus, try this again from an objective standpoint[/quote]
I’m not sure what I said that was untrue. I respect and admire the guy sure, but the fact is that he ran a clinic on everyone he faced–Marcus Silvera, Carlos Newton, Quinton Jackson, Kevin Randleman, Vitor Belfort–not to mention running through the Gracies as he was known for.
He should have been the Sugar Ray Robinson of the sport, but Pride insisted on putting him up against guys that were much bigger (he was outweighed significantly by most of the guys above), and against strikers like Filipovic and Silva who repeatedly bashed his head in until he was a shadow of the fighter he once was.
[quote]analog_kid wrote:
After the events of the past 24 hours, Fedor should be on the top of everyone’s list. There is NO ONE else in ANY SPORT that has ever been as dominant as Fedor is in MMA. The closest I can come up with are guys like Tiger Woods and Michale Schumacher.
[/quote]
I don’t think that you can have list like this and have Sakuraba outside the top three.
This is my favourite Sakuraba highlight. It doesn’t give a complete impression of Saku’s career but I think it’s the best at showing just how good he was in terms of the things he could do. If you’ve never seen him in action, or have just seen him getting killed in recent years, watch it.
It’s easy to forget, now that he seems set on actually dying in the ring, that at one point Sakuraba was the best p4p fighter in the world.
I don’t think that it would be much of an exaggeration to say that he literally redefined what it was possible to do in a real fight.
Yes, he lost sometimes but as noted he was a guy who could have made 170 who fought guys like Cro-Cop.