[quote]kd13 wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]kd13 wrote:
if I only make it to 199 or over do it and hit 201 I won’t be happy…[/quote]
Why??
You could step on a scale and be 199, drink some fucking water, and step back on the scale and be 201…[/quote]
Wow, don’t go in the rabbit hole [/quote]
Ain’t that the fuckin truth…
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
I weighed about 125 when I was 18. My first year of lifting took me to about 155-160 I believe (it’s been awhile, hard to remember). I’m 31 now, and I have lifted on and off through the years, but more on than off. The heaviest I ever got naturally was right about 190, and that was at night, not a fasted weight.
And my abs were blurry at best. At that point it had become very difficult to eat and lift enough to grow substantially more, at least for me. I had mostly stalled on my lifts. I am no longer natural, but that is a very recent development (6 months non-natural). I am currently around 190 lbs, and leaner than my avatar picture. and i’m 5’10.[/quote]
Thanks for taking this thread for what it is buddy. Not that it makes any difference that you started using gear , but with how your progress had stalled do you not think that given a fair few more years that you would have figured out a way to keep progressing naturally? Even if it was only a few pounds a year you
would have easily done it. Was it more a time thing?
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
At age 30, I walk around at 5’11, 170-175. I might be able to push that up to a fairly lean 180-185, but then what? I’ll never be 200lbs with abs. Not gonna happen. That’s OK.
[/quote]
My thirties were my most productive years…
[/quote]
I’ve encountered many people who have said the exact same thing, interesting when in theory your younger years should be more productive. A couple of people I train with who are now in there 40s now have very impressive bodys and claim they where not as big as me at my age.
[quote]kd13 wrote:
I’ve encountered many people who have said the exact same thing, interesting when in theory your younger years should be more productive. A couple of people I train with who are now in there 40s now have very impressive bodys and claim they where not as big as me at my age.[/quote]
I think that, physically, you’re more primed to grow in your teens than you are in your twenties and more in your twenties than your thirties. However, many people spend their earlier years on bro splits while partying every weekend, thus pissing away any chance of making progress. When they become more settled and reasonable, the quality of training stimuli and recovery both go through the roof.
I actually think my metabolism was so high it made it hard to gain in my younger years. I’m 30 now, and gains seem to come way faster (even when unassisted…).
Could well just be the case that my diet is better now.
If it is the case that 30s are good years for training then I’m in with a chance then.
I don’t really know what my % body fat is, and that’s a whole other thread for people to bitch about and also I don’t have a shoe at hand . If I reach 200 and be how lean I am now it would be fantastic.
Im gonna try eating just above maintenance 5 days a week and having 2 days of force feeding, I have heard Charles pol suggest this. Worth a try to kick start things.
you’ll never know until you try! In any case, if you reach your maximum muscular potential (which I’m not convinced anyone ever does) then you’ll look awesome regardless of what the scale says.
Good luck!
Thanks, all the best with your training too.
To go back to the age thing, I think a change in attitude may also contribute. When I was younger I fully admit that ego got in the way and I saw others in the gym as competition, I now see them as a source of knowledge. I would have never approached and questiond the guy with the biggest arms. And doing so has changed my views and lead to new progress.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
There are plenty of people who looked phenomenal at 180, and plenty others who looked phenomenal at 220.
[/quote]
I did the whole scale target weight thing when I started, because I honestly thought that was how it worked. The funny thing, and very sobering as well, was that despite cracking 2 bills in the mid 2000’s, My actual measurements (and very notably actual muscle mass!) didn’t peak until several years later… at a lower bodyweight. Hell, If I look at my measurements (assuming this as an indicator of lbm to SOME degree), everything was better around 2009-2012 dieted down to 180 lbs than they were weight-consciously-fed at 215-220.
And lemme tell ya, for anyone who has ever heard the dismissal of trainers or even competitors under 200 lbs, or maybe “so and so’s only 180 lbs”,… a few weeks after a contest, weighing ONLY 180, I looked pretty f-ing big. This was because of the size of my actual muscles, not my overall weight.
S
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
There are plenty of people who looked phenomenal at 180, and plenty others who looked phenomenal at 220.
[/quote]
I did the whole scale target weight thing when I started, because I honestly thought that was how it worked. The funny thing, and very sobering as well, was that despite cracking 2 bills in the mid 2000’s, My actual measurements (and very notably actual muscle mass!) didn’t peak until several years later… at a lower bodyweight. Hell, If I look at my measurements (assuming this as an indicator of lbm to SOME degree), everything was better around 2009-2012 dieted down to 180 lbs than they were weight-consciously-fed at 215-220.
And lemme tell ya, for anyone who has ever heard the dismissal of trainers or even competitors under 200 lbs, or maybe “so and so’s only 180 lbs”,… a few weeks after a contest, weighing ONLY 180, I looked pretty f-ing big. This was because of the size of my actual muscles, not my overall weight.
S[/quote]
whatever, Stu. Everyone knows if you weigh less than 200 you’re a massive pussy
I think I struggle with perception of size, I can never really manage to compare myself to others. I guess spending your teens and early 20s as the skinny guy leaves you with the impression that you are always much smaller than others. Knowing I’m x amount of weight is easier to grasp. Being 200 really doesn’t matter I know, that’s just a figure I think would be about right to achieve my desired look.
Here is a quick pic to show where I currently stand, poor quality phone cam but best I have.
you look good. Imagine stay at that level of leanness and adding 20lbs of muscle. You’d still be short of the 200lb mark but you’d look incredible! Even another 10lbs’ll look awesome.
Eat well, train hard, be happy. You’re doing great.
[quote]Yogi wrote:
you look good. Imagine stay at that level of leanness and adding 20lbs of muscle. You’d still be short of the 200lb mark but you’d look incredible! Even another 10lbs’ll look awesome.
Eat well, train hard, be happy. You’re doing great.[/quote]
+1
[quote]juverulez wrote:
[quote]Yogi wrote:
you look good. Imagine stay at that level of leanness and adding 20lbs of muscle. You’d still be short of the 200lb mark but you’d look incredible! Even another 10lbs’ll look awesome.
Eat well, train hard, be happy. You’re doing great.[/quote]
+1
[/quote]
+2
OP, I guess it depends on your goals, but unless you’re competing in a show or something I don’t see why you feel too small. You have a physique that most anyone would be proud to show off at the beach, I think.
[quote]kd13 wrote:
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
I weighed about 125 when I was 18. My first year of lifting took me to about 155-160 I believe (it’s been awhile, hard to remember). I’m 31 now, and I have lifted on and off through the years, but more on than off. The heaviest I ever got naturally was right about 190, and that was at night, not a fasted weight.
And my abs were blurry at best. At that point it had become very difficult to eat and lift enough to grow substantially more, at least for me. I had mostly stalled on my lifts. I am no longer natural, but that is a very recent development (6 months non-natural). I am currently around 190 lbs, and leaner than my avatar picture. and i’m 5’10.[/quote]
Thanks for taking this thread for what it is buddy. Not that it makes any difference that you started using gear , but with how your progress had stalled do you not think that given a fair few more years that you would have figured out a way to keep progressing naturally? Even if it was only a few pounds a year you
would have easily done it. Was it more a time thing?[/quote]
I certainly believe I could have continued to progress. I’m confident I wouldn’t have progressed as much as I want to though.
The reason I chose to leave the ‘natural’ path was because I never valued being natural to begin with. My goal has been to get stronger, and gear is good for assisting in that goal. I expect to reach elite status as a powerlifter, and I don’t know that I would have been able to do that unassisted, ever. I guess if I had taken some sort of pride in being natural, maybe I would have stayed that way. I never did though.
[quote]kd13 wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
At age 30, I walk around at 5’11, 170-175. I might be able to push that up to a fairly lean 180-185, but then what? I’ll never be 200lbs with abs. Not gonna happen. That’s OK.
[/quote]
My thirties were my most productive years…
[/quote]
I’ve encountered many people who have said the exact same thing, interesting when in theory your younger years should be more productive. A couple of people I train with who are now in there 40s now have very impressive bodys and claim they where not as big as me at my age.[/quote]
In my case (29 now, progressing much better than when I was 19), I feel it’s because I spent about a decade just sort of laying the foundation down and now I can finally build upon it. I might’ve been “primed to grow” at 19, but my work capacity was crap, I had no conditioning, my joints/ligaments/tendons had never been pushed hard, etc etc. 10+ years lifting has now made it that I can really push myself into crazy stupid directions and grow from it.
Chemically, I’m sure I was in a better place younger, but I have so much more potential to play with now compared to back then.
Thanks for the replys. 29 this year but I think the next couple of years are gonna be good for me and my training. I had to have some blood work done the other month and my total test was 19.1nmol, so despite being nearly in my 30s Im still kicking out decent levels!
Like I said before, gear is not an option for me at all, the risks would be far too high. I do actually take pride in the fact Im doing it this way and even if I could I still don’t think I would. I respect others decision to use as long as they know what they are doing and don’t mine the risk, fair play.
There is a limit but it’s hard to predict what yours might be since there are so many variables. Essentially, each year of good training will get you asymptotically closer to your genetic potential. For most people you’ll be darn near your limit after ten years of good training. Casey Butt lists a variety of ways to estimate your potential on his website, I happen to like this one, which is based on the stats of natural bodybuilders past and present:
Max LBM = H^1.5 * (sqrt(W)/22.6670 + sqrt(A)/17.0104) * (%BF/224 + 1)
Ectomorphs subtract 5%, endomorphs add 5%
H = Height in inches
A = Ankle circumference at the smallest point
W = Wrist circumference measured on the hand side of the styloid process.
(The styloid process is the bony lump on the outside of your wrist.)
%bf = The body fat percentage at which you want to predict your maximum lean body mass
Add 4% during a bulking phase
If you manage to get that big then you’re as large as any natural champ so it’s pretty likely you’ll be smaller than that even at max. That’s still pretty big and definitely bigger than you are now.
For comparison here is a simple height based one for Mr. Olympia winners (who are obviously not natural):
Contest weight = 0.0179595822*Height^2.2301103779
At 5ft10in that would be 233.92lbs at 4%-5% body fat. As a natural trainee the chance that you’ll get that big is essentially zero.