Why is your goal weight 200 pounds?
Why not 203? 198? 300? 400?
The average silverback gorilla in the wild is between 5’7 and 5’11, and weighs between 298 and 397 pounds (according to wikipedia). Why not shoot for that?
[quote]kd13 wrote:
[quote]dt79 wrote:
I was actually under the impression from previous debates that any LBM gained while underweight didn’t count.
Regardless, I’m not touching this topic with a 10 foot pole lol.[/quote]
That’s absolute bollocks[/quote]
Lol, this is exactly why my first post was what it was.
[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
Hey, does anyone want to talk about natural limits?[/quote]
Aww can we?? I love natural limits chats! They always result in a firm, agreed upon conclusion.
Are we talking dry or wet lean gains?
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
Are we talking dry or wet lean gains?[/quote]
Are we talking about purely muscle mass lean gains or are we including ligaments, bones, etc… in the LBM measure?
[quote]rusty92 wrote:
[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
Hey, does anyone want to talk about natural limits?[/quote]
Aww can we?? I love natural limits chats! They always result in a firm, agreed upon conclusion.[/quote]
You’re my hero.
I do believe there’s a limit to LBM gains after you’ve grown to your ‘natural’ weight and height. Of course, since many guys start lifting in their late teens, that’s sometimes hard to tell.
Take me as an example. I come from a family of slender men. My dad never weighed more than 150, not even with a middle age gut. I celebrated my 25th birthday weighing a tad below 130 lbs. That was my natural weight = the weight I reached by eating enough not to be hungry and by not touching weights. Sure, look at me in a parallel universe working construction and I might weight 145 without ever going to a gym. The lines get a bit blurry here since there are plenty of environmental factors.
That being said, I’m confident I’ll never be Mr Olympia. At age 30, I walk around at 5’11, 170-175. I might be able to push that up to a fairly lean 180-185, but then what? I’ll never be 200lbs with abs. Not gonna happen. That’s OK.
[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
The lines get a bit blurry here since there are plenty of environmental factors.
[/quote]
An often overlooked factor in this, “debate.”
[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
[quote]rusty92 wrote:
[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
Hey, does anyone want to talk about natural limits?[/quote]
Aww can we?? I love natural limits chats! They always result in a firm, agreed upon conclusion.[/quote]
You’re my hero.
I do believe there’s a limit to LBM gains after you’ve grown to your ‘natural’ weight and height. Of course, since many guys start lifting in their late teens, that’s sometimes hard to tell.
Take me as an example. I come from a family of slender men. My dad never weighed more than 150, not even with a middle age gut. I celebrated my 25th birthday weighing a tad below 130 lbs. That was my natural weight = the weight I reached by eating enough not to be hungry and by not touching weights. Sure, look at me in a parallel universe working construction and I might weight 145 without ever going to a gym. The lines get a bit blurry here since there are plenty of environmental factors.
That being said, I’m confident I’ll never be Mr Olympia. At age 30, I walk around at 5’11, 170-175. I might be able to push that up to a fairly lean 180-185, but then what? I’ll never be 200lbs with abs. Not gonna happen. That’s OK.
[/quote]
I firmly agree with your conclusion.
[quote]kd13 wrote:
Sorry forgot to add that in, Im 5.10 and currently sitting around 176lb and I know body fat percentages are not worth much but I would say Im around 10%ish[/quote]
I don’t think your goal is unreachable. In the neighborhood of 3lbs per inch of height is doable over the long haul. Like has already been mentioned; it may require adding some extra weight and then working your way back down.
[quote]Ecchastang wrote:
[quote]craze9 wrote:
It seems you were very underweight when you started so a big number like 75 lbs LBM might be doable. 200 at 10% bf natural, though, is very ambitious and would take a long time, if possible at all.
[/quote]
I would say it is doable at 5’10" but will not come easy and you will probably have to get up decently above 200 at about 15% or so, then do a slow methodical cut. [/quote]
Agreed. I’m 5’10.5 myself and doubt I’ll ever get to 200 at 10% naturally, though.
[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
At age 30, I walk around at 5’11, 170-175. I might be able to push that up to a fairly lean 180-185, but then what? I’ll never be 200lbs with abs. Not gonna happen. That’s OK.
[/quote]
My thirties were my most productive years…
[quote]craze9 wrote:
[quote]Ecchastang wrote:
[quote]craze9 wrote:
It seems you were very underweight when you started so a big number like 75 lbs LBM might be doable. 200 at 10% bf natural, though, is very ambitious and would take a long time, if possible at all.
[/quote]
I would say it is doable at 5’10" but will not come easy and you will probably have to get up decently above 200 at about 15% or so, then do a slow methodical cut. [/quote]
Agreed. I’m 5’10.5 myself and doubt I’ll ever get to 200 at 10% naturally, though.
[/quote]
Well, not on Madcow 
I weighed about 125 when I was 18. My first year of lifting took me to about 155-160 I believe (it’s been awhile, hard to remember). I’m 31 now, and I have lifted on and off through the years, but more on than off. The heaviest I ever got naturally was right about 190, and that was at night, not a fasted weight.
And my abs were blurry at best. At that point it had become very difficult to eat and lift enough to grow substantially more, at least for me. I had mostly stalled on my lifts. I am no longer natural, but that is a very recent development (6 months non-natural). I am currently around 190 lbs, and leaner than my avatar picture. and i’m 5’10.
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
[quote]craze9 wrote:
[quote]Ecchastang wrote:
[quote]craze9 wrote:
It seems you were very underweight when you started so a big number like 75 lbs LBM might be doable. 200 at 10% bf natural, though, is very ambitious and would take a long time, if possible at all.
[/quote]
I would say it is doable at 5’10" but will not come easy and you will probably have to get up decently above 200 at about 15% or so, then do a slow methodical cut. [/quote]
Agreed. I’m 5’10.5 myself and doubt I’ll ever get to 200 at 10% naturally, though.
[/quote]
Well, not on Madcow ;)[/quote]
Hahaha. I did lol, well-played.
I’m 194 right now, probably around 15% (random guess). 30 yrs old. Given BlueCollarTrain’s comment above, maybe it will happen eventually…
Thanks for the responses that are not arsey.
I do believe that at a certain amount of weight gained, like flipcollar has said weight and strength gains stall. I have no intention of even using gear, its not even a consideration due to a health issue. I think I can do it though, only to 200, if I only make it to 199 or over do it and hit 201 I won’t be happy…
[quote]kd13 wrote:
if I only make it to 199 or over do it and hit 201 I won’t be happy…[/quote]
Why??
You could step on a scale and be 199, drink some fucking water, and step back on the scale and be 201…
Lol. But for real, why 200?
I understand setting a goal weight when you’re competing in a weight class based sport, but as far as I know, you’re not.
There are plenty of people who looked phenomenal at 180, and plenty others who looked phenomenal at 220.
I guess I just look at it as, while setting a target weight can work to make sure you’re actually eating enough, trying to get to a particular weight “too quickly” can be a problem too.
Here’s some stuff I saved from one of these conversations a long time back:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
It begins with a known lean weight. Assuming a lifter weighs 145lbs in lean condition; the first goal is to add an additional 15-22lbs. and maintain that bodyweight for at least 18 months and no longer than 36. Most lifters require cardio during the surplus periods. During the surplus period the lifter should strive to properly increase their strength in some form of horizontal press, vertical press, squat, row, and pull. Lateral raises, shrugs, curls, extensions, and other exercises should also be included as needed to balance out the development. This may involve several program changes and strength development across a number of rep. ranges.
At the end of the surplus period a deficit period is used to reach the same relative leanness the lifter was at while weighing 145 (this should never take longer than 10-12 weeks). If the goal is continued gains this lean state should be maintained long enough to enjoy the benefits/reward of your hard work; but remember there is a difference between showing and growing. Gradually add 15-20% to the new bodyweight and repeat.
[some lifters may progress enough during the first surplus that they find themselves to be satisfactorily lean condition at the point a deficit would be called for. In this case the 10-15% should be gradually added to the lifters existing weight and the surplus work resumed][/quote]
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
I like a 2lbs per week limit; however while leanness is maintained I don’t object to a bit more. [/quote]
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]kd13 wrote:
if I only make it to 199 or over do it and hit 201 I won’t be happy…[/quote]
Why??
You could step on a scale and be 199, drink some fucking water, and step back on the scale and be 201…[/quote]
Wow, don’t go in the rabbit hole
Oh dear Lord, what have I walked into…
Slowly backs out of thread
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Lol. But for real, why 200?
I understand setting a goal weight when you’re competing in a weight class based sport, but as far as I know, you’re not.
There are plenty of people who looked phenomenal at 180, and plenty others who looked phenomenal at 220.
[/quote][/quote]
200 was a goal of mine, and I guess ultimately still sort of is. Although for me it’s mostly because I think at my height and build, the 198 weight class is probably the one I can be most competitive in.
I think the picture I posted in my RMP thread at 180 is probably the best I’ve looked.
For the OP to be super lean, and achieve what is likely his best look, without the assistance of steroids, I think he may end up falling slightly below 200. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. I like that people look at me and assume I weigh 200 lbs when I’m walking around 20 lbs under that.