1g of Protein/Pound of Bodyweight

Nutrition
101

[quote]Null wrote:
whogivsadamn wrote:
Alright guys, I wasn’t trying to be annoying, and Bricknyce, I appreciate the long response(I’ve read all the posts completely), and the lifters I know and lift with all have their strengths and weaknesses, one guy benches 350, another deads 530, and the strongest of us squats 540 and benches well over 300, were not world-class or anything like that so no need to mock those numbers. I think we are having a lively discussion though. This thread may be annoying, but its interesting too.

And why dont many of you guys have pics of yourselves in your avatars? You are all giving me good info(which I agree completely with, you guys have done your research), then shouldn’t you have physiques worthy of showing off? Maybe its a privacy thing, so I’m not criticizing, just curious.

And one final thing. Can I get some personal experience testimonials about when you changed your nutrition? What happened? Did your lifts skyrocket, or was the change much more subtle? I’m just wondering. I lift with average guys who don’t really have time or the money to afford all the good foods and supplements that are required for optimal performance, so I have no experience with it, only what I’ve read in books. If I’m still annoying you guys, I apologize, it is not my goal.

Studies show high protein diets are optimal for recovery. 1g to 1.7g with decreasing returns (for non-augmented individuals)… Old farts are less sensitive and need more per pound… Any metabolic sub optimizations such as insulin resistance or low T increase requirements. Also many formulas use 1g per pound lbm, some per pound body weight… Huge difference… These statements are from replicated studies.

This is a hard core site.

Some of these guys MP your bench (not me), many have avoided injury over the long haul. Give due respect to those who have tried to help. Some of these guys are elite, 3 standard deviation in accomplishment (not me).

[/quote]

1 to 1.7 is a wide range. 1.7 is 170% of 1. Yes, simple math you already know, but it just goes to show.

There aren’t decreasing returns just because you can only synthesize only so much. There are other benefits of a high protein intake besides protein synthesis: satiety, high TEF, intake of minerals and vitamins, better blood sugar control. So even if someone can only synthesize a certain amount, there are other benefits to get by consuming a high protein amount. In some cases, people can consume up to 2 grams per pound.

It also depends on caloric amount. I don’t only go by grams per pound. I take percentage of diet into consideration. Perhaps someone, because a raging metabolism and high workload (full-time athlete with a tremendous workload) needs 6,000 calories per day and weighs 220 pounds. If we go with the paltry amount of 220 grams per day (making up 880 calories), that leaves 5,120 calories left for fat and carb intake, a high amount. So you’re left with a diet that’s 14% protein, and 96% fat and carbs.

For a person that needs far less calories and has a smaller workload, the 1-gram-per-pound setup might be just fine. I’m just making an example of how things aren’t so cookie-cutter all the time. Dave Tate is an example of someone who NEEDED 10,000 calories to perform at a high level of powerlifting. Unfortunately, he got most of those calories from pure junk and a paltry amount of protein, fruits, and vegetables.

It also depends on how insulin-sensitive someone is. Most people don’t tolerate carbs too good. They sit around ALL DAY in cars, at desks, or on a bed. They exercise far too little. And they have ordinary genetics. Then you have guys like Mike Francois and Dorian Yates who consumed a very-high carbohydrate, low-fat diet in their primes: 60% carb, 10% fat, 30% protein. They’re just set up to handle that amount of carbs.

102

Absolutely concur. Studies are rather limited… Too small N, not enough control or analysis of co-variables… Inconsistent definitions… But they’re the best we have.

Some of the studies were body comp., some were nitrogen balance, some performance oriented. Usually the definition of “conditioned” was, well, pathetic.

I am Insulin Resistant and low T. I can’t have most carbs and have to time ones I have… Recovery is a serious issue… But mostly lifespan and quality is compromised… If I want a decent life I have to get as close to a body building lifestyle as possible.

But Heh, why can’t I get ripped on oil soaked simple carbs and alcohol…

Well, youth will cover most sins, but they’ll get old much faster metabolically speaking…

103

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
This guy has us fooled actually. Now that I think of the annoying nature of his first post, he came on here with the intention of messing with us. [/quote]

He probably has two computers on the same desk.

104


I thought about the original post, and I guess I’ll start the cheap food porn now!.. I got some haddock from Maine, 3.99 a pound, I bought 10lbs of it!.. I thought that was a great price, normally I broil it, but I did some seasoning, tomatoes, onions, capers, and used my griddle. Very high protein, and cheap!!!

105


Turkey is really cheap this time of year too. I did some turkey breasts smothered in fresh peaches… I’ll post more cheap food porn (maybe with the recipes and nutrient info) soon as the holidays are over, as I’m really busy now.

Have a great Thanksgiving everyone, this cat is checking out for the holidays, it’s feeding time!..

106

[quote]storey420 wrote:
Tony_Stark wrote:
I’m up to 3g per pound of bw at the moment, and i grow faster than ever. I try to get 4g/lb, but that’s really hard, especially when you try to keep the food uptake high.

I try to get 50-60g of protein with every meal.

Sorry but that is just a little bit excessive and ridiculous and really the good protein science that is out there would suggest that this is pointless. If you’re growing like a weed amen to ya but I find it REALLy hard to believe that the same growth rate wouldn’t happen (at least LBM) with less protein intake. Assuming you are at least 200lbs that is minimum 600grams of protein daily.

Not trying to flame you but hoping some noob doesn’t take this kind of advice to heart.[/quote]

Sorry, but you’re wrong. Eating more protein has lots of benefits, and also you need to get your calories from somehwere. when you only eat some 2g/lb, you’ll end up with too low calories, that you will need to fill up with fat or carbs.

Here are some more benefits from protein-rich diets, all will help with bodybuilding:

Increased Thermic Effect of Feeding â?? While all macronutrients require metabolic processing for digestion, absorption, and storage or oxidation, the thermic effect of protein is roughly double that of carbohydrates and fat. Therefore, eating protein is actually thermogenic and can lead to a higher metabolic rate. This means greater fat loss when dieting and less fat gain during overfeeding/muscle building.

Increased Glucagon â?? Protein consumption increases plasma concentrations of the hormone glucagon. Glucagon is responsible for antagonizing the effects of insulin in adipose tissue, leading to greater fat mobilization. In addition, glucagon also decreases the amounts and activities of the enzymes responsible for making and storing fat in adipose and liver cells. Again, this leads to greater fat loss during dieting and less fat gain during overfeeding.

Metabolic Pathway Adjustment â?? When a higher protein (20-50% of intake) is followed, a host of metabolic adjustments occur. These include: a down regulation of glycolysis, a reduction in fatty acid synthesis enzymes, increase in gluconeogenesis, a carbohydrate â??drainingâ?? effect where carbons necessary for ridding the body of amino nitrogen is drawn from glucose.

Increased IGF-1 â?? Protein and amino-acid supplementation has been shown to increase the IGF-1 response to both exercise and feeding. Since IGF-1 is an anabolic hormone thatâ??s related to muscle growth, another advantage associated with consuming more protein is more muscle growth when overfeeding and/or muscle sparing when dieting.

Reduction in Cardiovascular Risk â?? Several studies have shown that increasing the percentage of protein in the diet (from 11% to 23%) while decreasing the percentage of carbohydrate (from 63% to 48%) lowers LDL cholesterol and triglyceride concentrations with concomitant increases in HDL cholesterol concentrations.

Improved Weight-Loss Profile â??Research by Layman and colleagues has demonstrated that reducing the carbohydrate ratio from 3.5 â?? 1 to 1.4 â?? 1 increases body fat loss, spares muscle mass, reduces triglyceride concentrations, improves satiety, and improves blood glucose management (Layman et al 2003 â?? If youâ??re at all interested in protein intake, youâ??ve gotta go read the January and February issues of the Journal of Nutrition. Layman has three interesting articles in the two journals).

Increased Protein Turnover â?? All tissues of the body, including muscle, go through a regular program of turnover. Since the balance between protein breakdown and protein synthesis governs muscle protein turnover, you need to increase your protein turnover rates in order to best improve your muscle quality. A high protein diet does just this. By increasing both protein synthesis and protein breakdown, a high protein diet helps you get rid of the old muscle more quickly and build up new, more functional muscle to take its place.

Increased Nitrogen Status â?? Earlier I indicated that a positive nitrogen status means that more protein is entering the body than is leaving the body. High protein diets cause a strong positive protein status and when this increased protein availability is coupled with an exercise program that increases the bodyâ??s anabolic efficiency, the growth process may be accelerated.

Increased Provision of Auxiliary Nutrients â?? Although the benefits mentioned above have related specifically to protein and amino acids, itâ??s important to recognize that we donâ??t just eat protein and amino acids â?? we eat food. Therefore, high protein diets often provide auxiliary nutrients that could enhance performance and/or muscle growth. These nutrients include creatine, branched chain amino acids, conjugated linoleic acids, and/or additional nutrients that are important but remain to be discovered. And donâ??t forget the vitamins and minerals we get from protein rich foods. (And lest anyone think Iâ??m a shill for the protein powder industry, this last point clearly illustrates the need to get most of your protein from food, rather than supplements.)

107

So how does anything you just posted Tony have anything to do with that. At 2g of protein per lb of LBM you have a high protein diet. All of the benefits you listed are right on but they do not magically appear after 2g per lb of LBM and in fact if you troll the research a little better you will find that unless you are on AAS there is a rate limiting factor.

108

Tony, 2 g/lb is A LOT of protein. That’s 400 grams for a 200 pound man. Dorian Yates consumed 400 grams and he weighed 300. I think you meant to say 1 g/lb is a small amount.

If I remember correctly, what you posted above is written by John Berardi in one of his blogs on PN. Thanks for posting this. That’s the best summary of the benefits of a high protein intake I’ve seen.

109

Just to illustrate this point a bit further:

Recently I have a PDEX and assessment at the University of Texas. My LBM was 148lbs at a weight of 190 (my bodyfat was higher than it should be). So at 2g per lb of LBM you are talking 296 g of protein daily equaling 1184 calories, assuming I eat between 3-4k calories daily depending on energy systems work, etc. the protein intake is close to half of total caloric intake and assuming I get 30% of my calories from fat on a 3k calorie day that is 900 cals of fat with each gram being roughly 9 calories that is 100g of fat taken with the protein meals (except post workout).

Now we are at a little over 2000 calories with the rest rounded out from clean carbs which your original post assumed you were in a gaining phase so not too hard to get 900 calories of clean carbs or higher. Again if you are gaining this approach clearly works as evidenced by a plethore of BBers. Now for cutting I am totally with you with the modified protein fasts with very little carb and fat intake.

110

Sorry, but you’re wrong. Eating more protein has lots of benefits, and also you need to get your calories from somehwere. when you only eat some 2g/lb, you’ll end up with too low calories, that you will need to fill up with fat or carbs.

Okay and if I’m 200 lbs. and eating 1600 calories a day from protein, that’s nearly fifty percent of my daily caloric intake. There’s benefits to high protein diets, but that much isn’t going to do much of anything for me. I’ll take my fat and carbs thank you very much.

111

[quote]storey420 wrote:
So how does anything you just posted Tony have anything to do with that. At 2g of protein per lb of LBM you have a high protein diet. All of the benefits you listed are right on but they do not magically appear after 2g per lb of LBM and in fact if you troll the research a little better you will find that unless you are on AAS there is a rate limiting factor.[/quote]

Sorry, i was mixing up 1g/lb, i meant 1g/kg.

You didn’t understand what i meant, i think. You need to get your calories from somewhere, and the best is getting them from protein. I never said anything about a miracle happening.

112

[quote]Chi-Towns-Finest wrote:
Sorry, but you’re wrong. Eating more protein has lots of benefits, and also you need to get your calories from somehwere. when you only eat some 2g/lb, you’ll end up with too low calories, that you will need to fill up with fat or carbs.

Okay and if I’m 200 lbs. and eating 1600 calories a day from protein, that’s nearly fifty percent of my daily caloric intake. There’s benefits to high protein diets, but that much isn’t going to do much of anything for me. I’ll take my fat and carbs thank you very much.[/quote]

That’s fine, if it works for you. I never said you have to do what i do. Again, sorry for the mixup. i meant 1g/kg is too low, 2g/lb is actually very high.

113

[quote]Tony_Stark wrote:
Chi-Towns-Finest wrote:
Sorry, but you’re wrong. Eating more protein has lots of benefits, and also you need to get your calories from somehwere. when you only eat some 2g/lb, you’ll end up with too low calories, that you will need to fill up with fat or carbs.

Okay and if I’m 200 lbs. and eating 1600 calories a day from protein, that’s nearly fifty percent of my daily caloric intake. There’s benefits to high protein diets, but that much isn’t going to do much of anything for me. I’ll take my fat and carbs thank you very much.

That’s fine, if it works for you. I never said you have to do what i do. Again, sorry for the mixup. i meant 1g/kg is too low, 2g/lb is actually very high. [/quote]

It’s all good, Ironman. How long have you been eating 4g/lb? I can’t imagine eating 800g of protein even if I wanted to.

114

I packed on 6kg in the last 12 weeks with this. It’s not all lean muscle, of course, but far better than all other bulks i have done before.
I have to say though that i was at this weight before, so some mass gains are due to the muscle memory i guess. But i have stayed surprisingly ripped this way. Next cutting is in March or April, i will try to cut with high protein, just cut the carbs then.

You have to use shakes and try to get about 60g of protein in every meal, otherwise it’s almost impossible to get all the protein.

115

[quote]Tony_Stark wrote:
storey420 wrote:
So how does anything you just posted Tony have anything to do with that. At 2g of protein per lb of LBM you have a high protein diet. All of the benefits you listed are right on but they do not magically appear after 2g per lb of LBM and in fact if you troll the research a little better you will find that unless you are on AAS there is a rate limiting factor.

Sorry, i was mixing up 1g/lb, i meant 1g/kg.

You didn’t understand what i meant, i think. You need to get your calories from somewhere, and the best is getting them from protein. I never said anything about a miracle happening. [/quote]

Fair enough Tony, I agree that if I am going to get calories from any where it would be protein and a little fat.