[quote]whogivsadamn wrote:
anorexics would KILL to be this skinny…[/quote]
Okay, that was pretty funny.
Put down those budlight limes bud or you will always be that skinny.
I try tog get 30-40 grams in each meal then when before I go to bed I drink a 20g shot of MD.
Protein is big but you my friend just need to eat food…lots and lots of clean food.
Overall I think people overdo it with protein. You need to work hard enough for this to even be an issue , right.
[quote]Tony_Stark wrote:
I’m up to 3g per pound of bw at the moment, and i grow faster than ever. I try to get 4g/lb, but that’s really hard, especially when you try to keep the food uptake high.
I try to get 50-60g of protein with every meal. [/quote]
Sorry but that is just a little bit excessive and ridiculous and really the good protein science that is out there would suggest that this is pointless. If you’re growing like a weed amen to ya but I find it REALLy hard to believe that the same growth rate wouldn’t happen (at least LBM) with less protein intake. Assuming you are at least 200lbs that is minimum 600grams of protein daily.
Not trying to flame you but hoping some noob doesn’t take this kind of advice to heart.
[quote]Drew Price wrote:
As I was saying over in CT’s forum protein has a lot more implications than just muscle.
If you’re not eating protein where else are you getting your calories and what does this mean for health and body comp?
Then you look at what concentrated quality protein itself does in the body with regards satiety, GI/II of meals, glucagon, TEF, immuno competence and the connected health outcomes. Then there are the factors interesting to BB’er like nitrogen balance/protein turnover & IGF-1 etc.
Is there ‘magic’ that happens over 1g/lb bodyweight? No, not IMPE.
Do higher protein diets work (caveat good sources and choices)? Yes, IME.
[/quote]
Solid advice.
Someone, the guy with the James Bond avatar, posted a Beradi article the other day that discussed some of these exact issues. Good points.
OP, I echo waylander’s sentiments. Eat your animal meats and your potatoes/oat bran/oatmeal five or six times a day. Focus on linear progression of your big lifts, and you will make it.
[quote]storey420 wrote:
Tony_Stark wrote:
I’m up to 3g per pound of bw at the moment, and i grow faster than ever. I try to get 4g/lb, but that’s really hard, especially when you try to keep the food uptake high.
I try to get 50-60g of protein with every meal.
Sorry but that is just a little bit excessive and ridiculous and really the good protein science that is out there would suggest that this is pointless. If you’re growing like a weed amen to ya but I find it REALLy hard to believe that the same growth rate wouldn’t happen (at least LBM) with less protein intake. Assuming you are at least 200lbs that is minimum 600grams of protein daily.
Not trying to flame you but hoping some noob doesn’t take this kind of advice to heart.[/quote]
Yeah even with AAS use you only need 2g/lb – us natty’s only need 1g/lb.
[quote]Chi-Towns-Finest wrote:
storey420 wrote:
Tony_Stark wrote:
I’m up to 3g per pound of bw at the moment, and i grow faster than ever. I try to get 4g/lb, but that’s really hard, especially when you try to keep the food uptake high.
I try to get 50-60g of protein with every meal.
Sorry but that is just a little bit excessive and ridiculous and really the good protein science that is out there would suggest that this is pointless. If you’re growing like a weed amen to ya but I find it REALLy hard to believe that the same growth rate wouldn’t happen (at least LBM) with less protein intake. Assuming you are at least 200lbs that is minimum 600grams of protein daily.
Not trying to flame you but hoping some noob doesn’t take this kind of advice to heart.
Yeah even with AAS use you only need 2g/lb – us natty’s only need 1g/lb.[/quote]
On AAS the more protein the better. Actually the more total androgens the more protein can be used (I think). The potential isn’t limitless but 2g/lb is actually the minimum from what I’ve read regarding the nutrition plans of offseason bodybuilders.
As someone before said, there are benefits of eating protein besides protein synthesis.
The OP has one of those questions that befuddle me. It’s been shown in the real world and in science that one needs this amount of protein to excel and then he asks if it’s necessary to excel. The outcomes are better body composition, satiety, and an intake of micronutrients in protein sources.
OP, unless you’re HUGE–which you’re not–it’s not that expensive to consume 200+ grams of protein per day. Look at these cheap sources:
Eggs
Sardines (a buck a can sometimes!)
Canned meats: salmon, chicken, tuna (I go to Costco and get loads of this stuff!)
Some cheeses
Skim milk powder (DIRT cheap)
Some protein powders
Innards: liver, kidney, heart, etc (2 bucks per pound of near fat-free protein sources!)
Plus, some carb sources aren’t expensive either, and if you consume a moderate to high amount, they can add protein to the diet.
Cheap carb sources:
Brown rice
Multi-grain cereal
Whole-grain pretzels
Oatmeal
Bread
Whole-wheat pasta
Thanks for all the info guys, I guess you can’t argue with science, but hell, here goes:
I know about a dozen young(age 20-30) lifters that I have trained with over the years and not one of them gets adequate protein, I know this because talking to them about nutrition is a one-way street to some joke about how bad they eat. I know Dave Tate ate twinkies and honeybuns to get to his strongest size, so what I’m asking is, if I’m just trying to get bigger and stronger, not exactly maintaining my leanness along the way, does it really matter if I’m getting enough of my calories from protein sources if I’m atleast getting a shitload of calories? I’m answering my own question here, ofcourse one can just eat so much that they get bigger which will undoubtedly lead to them being stronger, provided they’re not lifting like a jackass. I’m just gonna go to Costco and load up on some mammoth muffins. Talk about cheap, you guys don’t know cheap. And I know that I’m the OP, but what the hell does ‘OP’ mean?
It’s not the complicated, read my post again:
Calories, then
Macro’s then
Timing
There is your answer.
The more you’re worried about WHAT you’re gaining whilst you’re gaining then the more you have to pay attention to the last two.
OP: ‘original poster’ or similar
[quote]whogivsadamn wrote:
I know Dave Tate ate twinkies and honeybuns to get to his strongest size [/quote]
Just so no one glances over this.
[quote]whogivsadamn wrote:
Thanks for all the info guys, I guess you can’t argue with science, but hell, here goes:
I know about a dozen young(age 20-30) lifters that I have trained with over the years and not one of them gets adequate protein, I know this because talking to them about nutrition is a one-way street to some joke about how bad they eat. I know Dave Tate ate twinkies and honeybuns to get to his strongest size, so what I’m asking is, if I’m just trying to get bigger and stronger, not exactly maintaining my leanness along the way, does it really matter if I’m getting enough of my calories from protein sources if I’m atleast getting a shitload of calories? I’m answering my own question here, ofcourse one can just eat so much that they get bigger which will undoubtedly lead to them being stronger, provided they’re not lifting like a jackass. I’m just gonna go to Costco and load up on some mammoth muffins. Talk about cheap, you guys don’t know cheap. And I know that I’m the OP, but what the hell does ‘OP’ mean?[/quote]
If I’m not mistaken Dave Tate ate lots of fast food sometimes up to several McD burgers per sitting. I’ll be surprised if he didn’t even get at least 200-250g of protein per day from all those enormous amount of calories he’s taking. Remember that he’s eating a lot here, that’s why he didn’t need to take that much protein. If you’re dieting (which I don’t think is what you need right now) then you’re protein intake would probably need to be bumped up a bit.
[quote]Taufiq wrote:
whogivsadamn wrote:
Thanks for all the info guys, I guess you can’t argue with science, but hell, here goes:
I know about a dozen young(age 20-30) lifters that I have trained with over the years and not one of them gets adequate protein, I know this because talking to them about nutrition is a one-way street to some joke about how bad they eat. I know Dave Tate ate twinkies and honeybuns to get to his strongest size, so what I’m asking is, if I’m just trying to get bigger and stronger, not exactly maintaining my leanness along the way, does it really matter if I’m getting enough of my calories from protein sources if I’m atleast getting a shitload of calories? I’m answering my own question here, ofcourse one can just eat so much that they get bigger which will undoubtedly lead to them being stronger, provided they’re not lifting like a jackass. I’m just gonna go to Costco and load up on some mammoth muffins. Talk about cheap, you guys don’t know cheap. And I know that I’m the OP, but what the hell does ‘OP’ mean?
If I’m not mistaken Dave Tate ate lots of fast food sometimes up to several McD burgers per sitting. I’ll be surprised if he didn’t even get at least 200-250g of protein per day from all those enormous amount of calories he’s taking. Remember that he’s eating a lot here, that’s why he didn’t need to take that much protein. If you’re dieting (which I don’t think is what you need right now) then you’re protein intake would probably need to be bumped up a bit.[/quote]
You are also underestimating how much protein a man as large and strong as Dave Tate may eat on any given day. (severly underestimating)
He’s probably 100lbs heavier than I am and I get 200g. More at certain times of the year.
[quote]whogivsadamn wrote:
Thanks for all the info guys, I guess you can’t argue with science, but hell, here goes:
I know about a dozen young(age 20-30) lifters that I have trained with over the years and not one of them gets adequate protein, I know this because talking to them about nutrition is a one-way street to some joke about how bad they eat. I know Dave Tate ate twinkies and honeybuns to get to his strongest size, so what I’m asking is, if I’m just trying to get bigger and stronger, not exactly maintaining my leanness along the way, does it really matter if I’m getting enough of my calories from protein sources if I’m atleast getting a shitload of calories? I’m answering my own question here, ofcourse one can just eat so much that they get bigger which will undoubtedly lead to them being stronger, provided they’re not lifting like a jackass. I’m just gonna go to Costco and load up on some mammoth muffins. Talk about cheap, you guys don’t know cheap. And I know that I’m the OP, but what the hell does ‘OP’ mean?[/quote]
Uh yes, it does matter. Otherwise there wouldn’t be a condition known as kwashikor, a condition in which CALORIC amount is adequate but protein amount is inadequate. I’m not saying you and your buddies are gonna come down with this condition, but if adequate nutrition was all about calories, then this condition wouldn’t even exist!
Dave Tate and many other lifters eat loads of shit! Are you in the position where you need to eat 10,000 calories per day and would have extreme difficulty getting all those calories in by eating egg whits, chicken, rice, and oatmeal! How come you don’t look into WHY he ate like that: because eating 10k calories from clean foods is near impossible unless you want to chew for all 16 waking hours and perhaps have parenteral/IV nutrition throughout the night!
You’re not in Dave’s position and most of us will likely never will be. So his example has nothing to do with us! His protein intake written in the article detailing his transformation was “OK” but not optimal! He was just not eating enough protein for optimal body composition and health.
Most guys don’t train 10+ hours per week, have raging metabolisms, and use considerable amounts of steroids to require 10k calories.
And look what eating shit foods and a suboptimal amount of protein did to his health! He was overweight, bloated, and his lipid profile was SHOT! Low HDL, high LDL, and sky-high trigs! Having a heart attack isn’t good for performance. So even if one gets away with this and has increased strength from overall body mass in the short term, their performance will deteriorate in the long run! Most SHW and 308+ lifters quickly trim down once they retire or wake up and smell the roses and realize that they’re heading for an early death or visit to a nursing home!
How many of those 20 to 30 year old lifers are successful in lifting? What are their stats?
And I DON’T like being a dick, but it’s called for here:
You’re most recent post IS fucking annoying. You come on here and ask for information, and then come on again–after all the information has been given with care and thought–to disregard our information, challenge it, and not give a shit about despite all evidence that this information is RELIABLE (eg, going to Costco for shit muffins and not meat, eggs, and grains)!
This is why there are LOADS of disgruntled, disaffected trainers, dietitians, and nutritionists out there. People ask them for advice and what the questioner really intends on doing is taking this advice, flushing it in their mental trashbin, and doing what they intended to do in the first place, despite the fact that the information given to them is what ALL THE SUCCESSFUL fitness trainees and bodybuilders are doing and healthy patients/clients are doing!
In other words, annoying people that I’m speaking of here ask for advice when really they are seeking APPROVAL OF WHAT THEY REALLY WANT TO DO (eg, in your case, disregard our information and continue what you’ve been doing: consume inadequate protein).
This is why when someone asks me too many questions in a non professional atmosphere (eg, at a party, on the 'net, etc), I respond, “Sign the fuck up for individual nutrition counseling! I’m not wasting my breath, time, and energy here or at a keyboard to spout advice and information that falls on deaf ears. At least with FORMAL counseling, I get paid for it!”
This is also why trainers and dietitians even turn away business once they get a good client load and ARE being PAID!
And I find it funny that in my list of recommended HEALTHY protein sources, I mentioned COSTCO, the place you’re gonna go to, ignore my recommendation, and purchase muffins!
And what I didn’t mention was that Dave weighed close to or over 300 pounds while eating junk and had to eat junk to get to that weight. Most of us will never been a 300+ pound powerlifter, Strongman, or bodybuilder and will never require that amount of calories to get to that weight or maintain it.
Judging from your avatar, I’m guessing your a pretty average weight. You don’t require so many calories.
And MOST guys without raging metabolisms and enormous physical workloads don’t need mega-calorie diets.
And MOST… ORDINARY… AVERAGE… PHYSICALLY UNREMARKABLE (this is NOT an insult; it’s reality) dudes don’t need mega-calorie/SEE-FOOD diets and look like shit when they embark on them!
Do you know what the makeup of an IFBB pro or elite powerlifer is like? Most of these guys have a HARD TIME getting fat! Yeah, that’s right. At worst, these guys look “chubby”, “smooth”, or “bloated”. They don’t look like lops of shit, even at relatively high bodyfat levels.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
As someone before said, there are benefits of eating protein besides protein synthesis.
The OP has one of those questions that befuddle me. It’s been shown in the real world and in science that one needs this amount of protein to excel and then he asks if it’s necessary to excel. The outcomes are better body composition, satiety, and an intake of micronutrients in protein sources.
OP, unless you’re HUGE–which you’re not–it’s not that expensive to consume 200+ grams of protein per day. Look at these cheap sources:
Eggs
Sardines (a buck a can sometimes!)
Canned meats: salmon, chicken, tuna (I go to Costco and get loads of this stuff!)
Some cheeses
Skim milk powder (DIRT cheap)
Some protein powders
Innards: liver, kidney, heart, etc (2 bucks per pound of near fat-free protein sources!)
Plus, some carb sources aren’t expensive either, and if you consume a moderate to high amount, they can add protein to the diet.
Cheap carb sources:
Brown rice
Multi-grain cereal
Whole-grain pretzels
Oatmeal
Bread
Whole-wheat pasta[/quote]
^^Well said. Consuming these listed foods is simply the cheapest and fastest way to put on lean mass. Go to the supermarket, load up and train your ass off.
Enough said.
And we forgot to mention that Dave ate clean until his caloric need to gain weight exceeded 6,000 calories!
Have you tried to gain weight with far few calories yet? Did you encounter his problem yet?
I don’t know why I can’t get away from this thread. Perhaps because of how annoying it is.
I also didn’t mention the nutritional deficiencies that can arise from a diet consisting of shit: fast food, Twinkies, potato chips, candies, etc!
[i]You’re most recent post IS fucking annoying. You come on here and ask for information, and then come on again–after all the information has been given with care and thought–to disregard our information, challenge it, and not give a shit about despite all evidence that this information is RELIABLE (eg, going to Costco for shit muffins and not meat, eggs, and grains)! [/i]
X200
Brick, you hit the nail on the head in your original post.
Thanks Chi.