Nice, although we dont agree on everything, I respect your opinion.
Out of curiosity have you ever tried one arm pullups or chin ups?
Im thinking on starting training for them in the near future. Mostly doing negatives then partials and hopefully being able to complete at least four.
[quote]Zulu wrote:
What arm 1 arm lockoffs? [/quote]
I believe ‘lockoff’ is a rock climbers’ term. It refers to an isometric at the top of a pull (pull-up, chin-up, whatever). I don’t know if ‘lockoff’ refers to any isometric or just to a one-arm isometric, so I used the term ‘one-arm lockoff’ to designate holding the top of a chin or pull-up with only one hand one the bar.
I am interested in these because of the gains reported from training them, because my weak point is the top of the pull, and because research shows that isometrics in the stretched position have great carryover to the whole ROM (for instance, isos on the pins in the hole will carry over more to the full ROM of the squat than pauses at parallel).
Ross Hunt
Zeb,
Your second rule on chins/pulls states to stay away from wide pulls because it may injure the shoulders. I was just curious what your reasons were behind that because i know Arnold and Franco used to do a lot of wide pulls. I know this because of my narrow shoulder girdle. I read that wide pulls done often will stretch the shoulder girdle to help widen and give that better V-look. Also what do you think of behind the neck pulls because I often find that i get a better pump in my biceps rather than lats when doing pulls.
If you want to stretch the lats for example, you would start with your right arm bent over your head with your left hand on the right wrist. Then lean to the left. Make sense?
If then we draw our arms closer to our body to stretch the lats why would I take a wider grip on the bar? Makes no sense! Why Arnold and Franco did it is beyond me.
I do know from experience (training others and myself) that the wider you place your hands on the bar the more inclined you will be to shoulder injury. I think it has something to do with pulling beyond your natural motion. In other words if you were to climb a mountain you would not place your hands way out to the sides. They would be in front of you.
Just got my new stand alone chin/dip setup today.
Chins are really really tough…
Am working on them tho…
yeah they are tough but the great news is that you can improve very fast.
r-s
I got 18 pull-ups yesterday. If I can get another two reps before Christmas, I can do twenty reps on my twentieth birthday, and see if I can keep adding a rep a year.
It would be cool to be able to 100 pull-ups when I’m a century old.
Ross Hunt
ZEB!!!
Grreat tips! I especially like: “I also suggest climbing up to a regulation Chin-up bar and holding yourself in the “up” position for a few seconds, and then doing a negative. Begin the first week by doing one set of three negatives, no more! Try to take at least :5 to :10 seconds to do the negative, if possible.”…such an excellent suggestion. Your post is so helpful, very infomed!
Thank you for the great tips!!
Love and Aloha,
Chinadoll 
ZEB - you’re a beast! And yes, if Bush wins, I will post “ZEB was right” 25 times. If Kerry wins, your crushing depression will be punishment enough, I’m sure.
chinadoll:
High praise coming from someone whom I greatly admire and respect!
Thanks ever so much,
Zeb
Zeb,
What kind of rep ranges do you typically see at the chinning contests? What are the top numbers?
Todd
Hi Todd,
Great question!
Usually 20 consecutive dead hang reps is a base for those entering contests.
With that stated, very few get over 30 reps.
I have seen guys fly up to 20 reps. The way they are moving you think that they are going to get 60 consecutive reps. Then all of a sudden around 25 or 26 reps they hit sort of a wall. Not unlike when you take off fast to run a 1/4 mile sprint. Those who start out to fast do in fact hit a wall as there body cannot handle the lactic acid rush.
That is one reason that I urge all who are actually going for one high rep set to train (mostly) without added weight. You need to know how your body is going to respond at higher reps. And you need to train your body to respond properly at that level.
Back to your question: I have witnessed one man perform 50 consecutive dead hang Chin-ups. His name was Matt something. He was about 145lbs. and a STREND competitor. If you are not familiar with STREND competitions do a google search.
However, this guy is very, very rare. As I have stated in the past those who can do 30+ are usually in a class by themselves.
I know what you mean by the rarity of 30+ chins. I spent 4 1/2 years in the Marine Corps where we were tested semi-annually on our chin reps. 20 was considered a perfect score. Very few people I knew ever got to 20. It took me 3 1/2 years to finally hit 20. I never met anyone that got 30.
Of course, during testing, once you hit 20 most people stopped. They got their “perfect score” and would save their energy for the next event.
However, I have worked out with many Marines and the most reps I ever saw anyone get was 27. The San Diego Recruit Depot record for a Marine recruit was 63(I think). Imagine that…63 freakin’ chin ups. I wish I could have seen that.
Well, I am going to my first chinning contest tomorrow. I just found out about it so I didn’t have a chance to train for it specifically, but I am excited to just go and compete. I am hoping to hit 20 chins; like I said earlier, I hit 17 a few weeks ago. We’ll see what happens.
Wish me luck,
Todd
Todd:
I have always found that I am good for about 15% more chins in competition than in the gym. It’s the competitive juices flowing I think.
Just a few last minute tips if you don’t mind:
Don’t forget to over grab the bar and then squeeze it back as you adjust the grip. It should feel like your hands are part of the bar.
Remember to pretend to Pull the bar down to you. Something like when you are deadlifting and you picture your feet going through the floor.
Kick your shoes off! Why Pull up the additional weight? Shirt off as well.
When you lower yourself use as little energy as possible. Sort of let your body free fall…but make sure you stay in control, don’t get sloppy or start swinging!
Good Luck, I hope you kick some butt!
Zeb
One important factor in chinup ability is the ratio of upper arm to lower arm length. My brother has the same arm length as me, but his upper arms are about an inch shorter and his forearms are about an inch longer. He has a tough time yanking that last bit to get over the bar. That arm ratio does enable him to do one-arm pushups with a straight body and his hand in the middle of his chest though - something I’ve never seen anyone else do.
larry:
I have never heard of the length of the upper arm versus the lower arm as making much of a difference. You might have something there, I’ll have to think about that one.
Excellent work, my friend, excellent work.
Todd,
Good luck. Kick ass.
Larry is correct? a (relatively) short humerus would provide a mechanical advantage, much the same way that a short femur provide a mechanical advantage in the squat. However, that being said, the question is, how much arm length variance is there across individuals. And I don’t know the answer to that question offhand…
[quote]CharlesStaley wrote:
Larry is correct? a (relatively) short humerus would provide a mechanical advantage, much the same way that a short femur provide a mechanical advantage in the squat. However, that being said, the question is, how much arm length variance is there across individuals. And I don’t know the answer to that question offhand…[/quote]
Coach:
It would be interesting to do a study to find out how much of a “mechanical advantage” a short humerus would give someone regarding Pull-ups and Chin-ups.
I am sure it would not have as dramatic effect on Pull-up totals as body fat for example. However, I do wonder how much of an advantage it would offer.
Interesting stuff…