okay, so, i’m kinda half way inbetween a powerlifter/bodybuilder…i want to get really super strong… and bench a ridiculous amount (right now i’m still chasing 300…but…i’m only 18)
anyway though, i really want a large upper back (get that “X” shape)…but… anything i do to try to build it… absolutely fatigues other muslces (biceps, forearms, etc.) b4 it really burns my upper back…
any suggestions of specific exercises, or, variations of exercises… of how to “isolate” (not literally, obviously that’s impossible to do… just… relatively)my upper back, so as to give it a chance to get a good pump before my biceps, forearms, traps etc. burn out, thanks
I’m a personal trainer and have lots of clients who have a problem “feeling” their lats. The following has been of help: before every set of lat work, isometrically push your shoulders DOWN as if performing a shrug in reverse. You’ll feel the lats activate. Keep this feeling throughout the movement and you’ll get a good contraction on each rep.
Use this system with light weights at first and work up to your current levels–the lats should come up to the level of everything else in your physique.
Exercise-wise, I’m one who advocates chins over lat pulldowns all the way: for outer lats, go for wide-grip, pronated grip chins. Work up to using weight, but only after you can do sets of 10-12. Good luck chasing that 300!
It sounds like you may benefit from a preexhaust technique. You need to work the lats without the arms, since they are the weak link that seems to be stopping your training. You could perform pullovers or straight arm cable pulldowns to work the lats first, then do pullups/pulldowns. That can help you “work around” your arms and stimulate the lats more. The old style natulus pullover machine is great for that also. If you do not have access to one, then pullovers or straight arm pulldowns are good substitutions.
You could also try a post exhaust technique. Simply do your pullups until your arms fail, then do the pullovers to continue to work the lats. Keep working the full pullups so you can eventually strengthen your arms so they are not such a limiting factor in your back training.
[quote]dynamicfitness wrote:
Exercise-wise, I’m one who advocates chins over lat pulldowns all the way: for outer lats, go for wide-grip, pronated grip chins.[/quote]
A good pull-up variation that I find hits the lats pretty hard is as follows:
Using the palms up grip, pull up to one hand. Then, at the top of the motion, shift your body over to your other hand and let yourself down. Now do this again, only pull up to the other hand and let yourself down from the other one. Basically, it should look like you’re doing cocaine off of the pullup bar. I can only do about 7 in a row for the first set, then about 5 in the second set. In my third, fourth, and fifth sets I just do regular pull-ups to failure.
[quote]nikolo wrote:
dynamicfitness wrote:
Exercise-wise, I’m one who advocates chins over lat pulldowns all the way: for outer lats, go for wide-grip, pronated grip chins.
What’s an outer lat?
[/quote]
It’s the antagonist of the outer pec…Everyone knows that
[quote]btlifter wrote:
okay, so, i’m kinda half way inbetween a powerlifter/bodybuilder…i want to get really super strong… and bench a ridiculous amount (right now i’m still chasing 300…but…i’m only 18)
anyway though, i really want a large upper back (get that “X” shape)…but… anything i do to try to build it… absolutely fatigues other muslces (biceps, forearms, etc.) b4 it really burns my upper back…
any suggestions of specific exercises, or, variations of exercises… of how to “isolate” (not literally, obviously that’s impossible to do… just… relatively)my upper back, so as to give it a chance to get a good pump before my biceps, forearms, traps etc. burn out, thanks [/quote]
What do you mean by “X” shape? Did you mean V shape? Or do you just have really wide hips?
god damnit, compounds will do for you more than some specific excersise will, grip holding you back? work on? in the meantime, get some straps, and deadlift.
I doubt you dealift or squat at all, you probably a bench/curl jocket.
COMPOUND MOVEMENTS!!! the more muscles used at the one time the better!!!
Exercise-wise, I’m one who advocates chins over lat pulldowns all the way: for outer lats, go for wide-grip, pronated grip chins. Work up to using weight, but only after you can do sets of 10-12. Good luck chasing that 300![/quote]
Can I get an Amen?
And can I get another Amen for the post that advocated Deadlifts?
Go for pull-ups and thier variations, as well as deadlifts.
I did pull-downs, low-row, high-row basically all the machines for the “back”. Result? I nearly 2X the amount of weight I could do. I looked bulkier but no real V shape in the upper body. AND could STILL ONLY do only 5 pull-ups. (now thats f*ed up!)
Now for ur arms u can fallow the tips given above. Me (not knowing about those tips) just did (still do) my pulls, lifts, plus forearm isolation workouts until my forearms got stronger.
[quote]nikolo wrote:
dynamicfitness wrote:
Exercise-wise, I’m one who advocates chins over lat pulldowns all the way: for outer lats, go for wide-grip, pronated grip chins.
What’s an outer lat?
[/quote]
I’m pretty sure he means the teres major. Which, also leads me to question what sort of success he gets with his clients “outer lats’”
Anyway, to the OP… A good exercise I do to help with the teres major, and even your rhomboids and traps…
Grab the wide grip handles with an overhand grip, and do ‘shrug pull ups.’ Its similar to a pullup, except you’re shrugging yourself up, and keeping your arms locked out. Your total range of motion will only be a few inches, but its a pretty good back builder.
In my experience, heavy weights and lower reps works best for this.
thanks everyone for the help, i’ll try pre exhausting them, maybe post exhausting them as well, plus maybe incorporate some of that “shrug” technique, also making an effort to lower my shoulders to feel it more, however 2 quick notes 1.
Fuzzy-47, please don’t chastisize me, actually, you’re half right, i do not deadlift, i DID deadlift, could pull a respectable (although nothing great) 455 lbs in gr. 12, however, due to problems with tendonitis in my elbows, my arms just can’t handle holding that much weight… as for squating… i squat 2x a week… 1 for lower reps, i.e powerlifting, 1 for higher reps (20 rep squats…hell) and front squats, etc. to try to build up my legs to achieve the afformentioned “X” shape…
2nd comment… i know i’m going to sound like an idiot… but… and somebody explain what a pullover is to me:S… is it… lying on a bench holding a dumbell behind your head… then kinda pulling it to over your face, or…? thanks for the swift replies
[quote]Modi wrote:
nikolo wrote:
dynamicfitness wrote:
Exercise-wise, I’m one who advocates chins over lat pulldowns all the way: for outer lats, go for wide-grip, pronated grip chins.
What’s an outer lat?
It’s the antagonist of the outer pec…Everyone knows that ;)[/quote]
So wide grip chins for the outer lat and wide grip benches for the outer pec??? Is that the correct anatagonist pairing?
[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
nikolo wrote:
dynamicfitness wrote:
Exercise-wise, I’m one who advocates chins over lat pulldowns all the way: for outer lats, go for wide-grip, pronated grip chins.
What’s an outer lat?
I’m pretty sure he means the teres major. Which, also leads me to question what sort of success he gets with his clients “outer lats’”
[/quote]
I don’t know. It smells of bodybuilding voodoo to me.
Have you a training partner? One way may be for the training partner to poke your lats with his finger, or claw the lats. Not to spot. McGill uses fascial scraping to cue the abs. may work to make you aware of the degree to which you are contracting the lats. Do you feel you get a good strong lat contraction?
[quote]nikolo wrote:
Modi wrote:
nikolo wrote:
dynamicfitness wrote:
Exercise-wise, I’m one who advocates chins over lat pulldowns all the way: for outer lats, go for wide-grip, pronated grip chins.
What’s an outer lat?
It’s the antagonist of the outer pec…Everyone knows that
So wide grip chins for the outer lat and wide grip benches for the outer pec??? Is that the correct anatagonist pairing?
just one other question… lots of people advocate pullups rather than pulldowns… why is that? personally i’ve always preferred pulldowns because of the ability to precisely control the weight… and… i can only do something like 6 good pullups, so, what if i want to control the form etc. more thoroughly?
