Just digging through old posts for information, I saw an interesting post by zraw in which he explained briefly some methods of peri-workout nutrition he tried and which he liked best.
Peri-workout nutrition/the “anabolic window” is a pretty hot topic. Biotest has plazma and other products designed around the concept, while other fairly big names recently published a paper calling the concept out (I believe the exact conclusion was “needs more research”).
Then we have the in-field warriors – us people who are moving weights and all trying to get bigger or stronger. Some of you guys with years of experience who have tried different products or protocols, and maybe younger lifters who are just trying to get a grasp on this and are struggling or maybe found something that works for them and are cruising.
So let’s hear it. How do YOU attack your workout nutrition? What HAS or HASN’T worked, and any anedoctal shit you maybe can’t prove but get a feeling for. Keep the info brief but with enough details that people can get the idea behind it.
Size: Small, 165lbs/5’10" and lean (10-11%)
Workout State: Semi-fasted (AM training, no meals before my workout nutrition).
Type of Training: Long/High Volume, focus on big 3 (PLing)
This worked best for me:
Pre: 45g whey protein/50g carbs (usually from cream of rice) 1 hour before
intra: 50g of whey hydrolysate with 25-75g of highly branched cyclic dextrin depending on the workload.
post: if hungry I will eat immediately after finishing. If not, about an hour later. Extreme hunger after workouts is starting to become a problem.
what DIDN’T work:
—Using a really cheap product I bought for 10 cents a can that has 20g of HFCS carbs and 10g of concentrated whey. Tried various ratios, but I always felt shitty the same and next day. Body also lost it’s pump or didn’t look as good
—Lowering the whey hydrolysate. Most of the intra products I see tend to focus on bumping up the carbs, but when I played around with my ratios I found keeping the protein at two scoops and lowering or upping the carbs depending on the workload is best for me.
—Fasted/Protein only workouts. Maybe if you finish lifting in 30-40 minutes…
Tried using Citrillium malate as well. I don’t use it all the time, but when I have my hardest days I take it an hour before training and I believe it helps. Even if I feel like shit between sets when I step under the bar the energy is there.
I’ve always just dealt with intra and post workout and kept it simple. 10-15g PeptoPro with a scoop of Xtend for flavour intra and then post workout just WPI, 10-15g leucine, and as many carbs as I feel necessary up to 100g. I want to add carbs in pre and intra so going to get some HBCD this weekend and see how this helps.
I train 3-4 times a day so I usually end up just suppin’ PeptoPro and BCAA all day to be honest.
Is such a large dose of hydrolysates necessary? I ask because John Kiefer only recommends a small amount. What about adding leucine post workout vs. PeptoPro or whey hydrolysates? Is there much difference, which works better? PeptoPro is mega expensive when compared to leucine!
I have been using Plazma mixed with oxygenated alkaline water and will never go back. That type of water doesn’t give that “bloated” feeling with how much liquid that needs to be consumed with Plazma.
I always have energy throughout my session instead of hitting a wall after my first body part I work. I am able to lift more and train more intensely throughout a lifting session on a consistent basis. My recovery is definitely improved as well.
This is really the only peri-workout product that I have felt during my session.
[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:
I have been using Plazma mixed with oxygenated alkaline water and will never go back. That type of water doesn’t give that “bloated” feeling with how much liquid that needs to be consumed with Plazma.
I always have energy throughout my session instead of hitting a wall after my first body part I work. I am able to lift more and train more intensely throughout a lifting session on a consistent basis. My recovery is definitely improved as well.
This is really the only peri-workout product that I have felt during my session.[/quote]
I’ve not used Plazma, but I have used a mix of something similar – hydrolized caseinate, highly branched cyclic dextrins, electrolytes, citrulline malate and creatine.
What I have experienced is an incredible increase in perceived recovery between sets. Usually I’d feel a bit worn down toward the later sets, but with this mix, I feel completely fresh for them.
I expected some improvement, but I didn’t expect things to work that well.
Plasma > Anaconda > SWF. I’ve used all three and the Plasma is by far the best pre/peri workout formula I’ve used. I use to just eat yogurt & Oats before w/ Whey after. It’s not even close. I’ve, like most young men, use the N.O. products and, while I don’t discount them like many do, they offer the quick burst (caffeine high), but you just hit a wall 40-50 minutes in. Not the case with something like Plazma.
½ serving (1 scoop) Of Surge Workout Fuel.
5 grams of Creatine.
10 grams of BCAAs.
Usually gives me enough endurance to push through a 90 minutes weight/cardio session. Recently dropped the SWF and have adapted to the carb drop (rather eat my carbs at this point). Still think SWF really addresses most of your peri-workout needs alone.
Also I am currently trying MAG-10 before training (usually used straight whey). Verdict is still out on that one.
[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:
I have been using Plazma mixed with oxygenated alkaline water and will never go back. That type of water doesn’t give that “bloated” feeling with how much liquid that needs to be consumed with Plazma.
I always have energy throughout my session instead of hitting a wall after my first body part I work. I am able to lift more and train more intensely throughout a lifting session on a consistent basis. My recovery is definitely improved as well.
This is really the only peri-workout product that I have felt during my session.[/quote]
I’ve not used Plazma, but I have used a mix of something similar – hydrolized caseinate, highly branched cyclic dextrins, electrolytes, citrulline malate and creatine.
What I have experienced is an incredible increase in perceived recovery between sets. Usually I’d feel a bit worn down toward the later sets, but with this mix, I feel completely fresh for them.
I expected some improvement, but I didn’t expect things to work that well.[/quote]
CH, electrolytes and fast acting carbs sure do make a noticeable difference. I put creatine malate and DAA in my Plazma as well. That doesn’t really help intra-workout but then I don’t need an additional shake to get those two things in.
Is such a large dose of hydrolysates necessary? I ask because John Kiefer only recommends a small amount. What about adding leucine post workout vs. PeptoPro or whey hydrolysates? Is there much difference, which works better? PeptoPro is mega expensive when compared to leucine!
Jonny. [/quote]
My large dosing is something I normally do on days that are brutal 2 hour long sessions. The workout itself is long. Then I shower, walk to the train station, take the train, do any grocery shopping and walk home – which takes close to another hour. So it’s awhile until my next protein source. That’s probably why I find good results using a higher protein amount. And I workout in the morning, only eating my pre-workout before training.
Leucine is different from hydrolysates. The perk of of leucine is to active mtor and protein synthesis. The pitch for hydrolsates is their rapid absorption rate and how are they are differently digested from typical protein sources.
The trend from people’s opinions and protein makers’ claims seems to be Peptopro Optimized CHY > CHY > WHY . This is also seen in pricing. I’ve only done a mix of WHY and HBCD tho.
I see this as a good opportunity to pose a question to the experienced peri-workout folks:
I’m just beginning to take my peri-workout nutrition more seriously and have been experimenting with a few things. I currently train mornings (ca. 8:00 - 9:00) and eat a solid meal about an hour beforehand. I am currently trying to slowly build muscle, will be carb cycling and trying to “recomp” for a month or two every 5 kg in order not to put on too much fat.
I currently have a CH mix (maltodextrin/dextrose in equal measure), BCAA powder and leucine at my disposal, in addition to whey powder. Using these ingredients, what would be a wise peri-workout strategy? Is there anything that I could add/get rid of to improve things? I live in a country where many of the mentioned supplements (e.g., hydrolysates, all Biotest stuff) are difficult to find and/or exorbitantly expensive, so I’d like to stick to relatively “conventional” stuff.
I should also mention that I train for powerlifting and my training sessions last anywhere between 45 - 70 min.
500 AM - 2 scoops Mag10
520-530 AM - 1 scoops MD, 1/4 cup Cream of Rice, 1 tbsp PB
600 AM - start sipping 2 scoops SWF
730 AM - finish 2 scoops SWF
900 AM - 2 scoops MAG-10
Works wonders for me. The recovery is awesome and I am able to train everyday with this protocol. I pulse 2 more times after this, and then hit another scoop of SWF for either a conditioning session or a BJJ session, followed by a large meal consisting of lots of veggies, meat, and fat.
[quote]Waittz wrote:
I beleive difference in composition change you will see from peri workout nutrition is a slimming of cash and a growth of spending. [/quote]
That may be true, but I doubt it.
The reason being, if you’re able to work harder for a longer period of time during the actual training, you will likely get greater composition change from those workouts, at least compared to those workouts where you can’t work as hard.
It’s one of those things you have to actually experience to believe.
If you can get your hands on it, I suggest trying a mix of 30g cyclic dextrins to 20g Peptopro mixed in water with some strong flavoring… just to see for yourself. Take half before the workout, and the rest during.
Obviously Plazma provides more than just that, but that should give you a taste of the difference.
[quote]howie424 wrote:
Here is my workout protocol
500 AM - 2 scoops Mag10
520-530 AM - 1 scoops MD, 1/4 cup Cream of Rice, 1 tbsp PB
600 AM - start sipping 2 scoops SWF
730 AM - finish 2 scoops SWF
900 AM - 2 scoops MAG-10
Works wonders for me. The recovery is awesome and I am able to train everyday with this protocol. I pulse 2 more times after this, and then hit another scoop of SWF for either a conditioning session or a BJJ session, followed by a large meal consisting of lots of veggies, meat, and fat.[/quote]
Happy to hear your positive results.
I do think once someone is consuming more supplements than real food, the diet has really gone in the wrong direction. I have been guilty of this before and it took hiring a coach to put me back in the right direction. Results have been much better since. Just food for thought.
You cannot beat a solid high carb diet for energy + pump.
Best thing to do for a great training session is to get 3-4 high carb meals in before the session.
If can’t do that, then downing fast-acting carbs before the session to fill up some of the glycogen stores will help.
ps: As far as I know, studies still show that whey is king of the hill.
Never saw much difference with pre-wo. Maybe for those who are strictly low-carbing it and then have a shake 30 min prior it would work. But for me, it actually made me feel light headed after heavy sets. The best workouts are where I had a meal with carbs 2-3 hours or so before training. Basically I want to have full glycogen stores, but the least amount of resources and blood devoted to digestion.
Training properly requires contracting your abs hard, and it becomes difficult when you have something going on in the stomach. Then again, I’ve never tried the stacked shakes people are talking about here. Just my 1.25$ (the inflation these days…).
[quote]optheta wrote:
Dam i was hoping somebody would post there insulin protocol haha.[/quote]
Ok here ya go, I tried insulin once recently, part of it involved 10u of Novolin R about 45 mins preworkout. My workout drink consisted of about 75g of protein, roughly 112g of carbs, and some creatine and I would sip it through my 2.5-3 hr workout fest. Would have preferred some aminos in there but I used what I had. It makes you feel a bit sluggish as though your aerobic metabolism never quite kicks in but it gives you the most sick-nasty pump you will ever have.
I still make a similar drink just in a smaller proportion. I feel like having insulin, exogenous or not, is a benefit during your training as it is quite anti-catabolic.