[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
What do you mean…no real world application for lifting??? I can carry all my groceries in one trip, I don’t need a roadie to help me with my guitar and gear and I can fetch the keg out of the pickup by my damn self!!! What more do you want?[/quote]
yep what he said when we finish the groceries get home my girl pops the boot and loads about ten bags on each forearm its like a challenge and no im not overtraining
When I registered I never thought I’d see as much idiocy on T-Nation as I have in this thread
hey kozz,
im not sure if there is a good way to take that comment.
i guess you’d have to include yourself in the idiocy then?
[quote]supahtony wrote:
hey people.
you all had great answers, but i lift for a more deeper reason.
i have severe depression and dont want to take meds.
when i lift im not depressed. period.
[/quote]
This is my main reason as well. Lifting is my medication.
How about the role of muscular tissue loss in aging? Besides all the payoffs of investing in muscle now, you’re investing in the future as well.
Someone mentioned speed being superior to muscle in martial arts. Where do you think speed comes from, for crying out loud?
Blam!
[quote]FireFighter1046 wrote:
elliot007 wrote:
Fenris wrote:
An interesting bit of anecdotal trivia…
I trained JKD, boxing, and submission wrestling for a few years. Then I moved to a new city and couldn’t find a good trainer, so I slowly transitioned into powerlifting.
About a year and a half goes by and a local NHB fighter starts doing his classes at my gym. I had seen the guy fight in a local “King of the Cage” type thing, and he was pretty good. So I decide to check his class out. It’s Brazilian jui-jitsu.
I come in and warm-up while watching some of the black belts roll. They looked pretty good, and I hadn’t trained in over a year and a half- I had just been powerlifting. “I’m gonna get stomped” I say to myself and dive in.
I beat four black belts, all in my weight class. Only the actual NHB fighter tapped me (he was a weight class below me, BTW), and I gave him a run for his money. My techniques were a little sloppy, my timing off, and some of my submissions weren’t up to snuff. But because I was so much stronger than these guys I was able to break out of several submission attempts, control the pace, take them down hard, and suffocate them with a lethal side mount. All of that after neglecting fight training for a year and half and concentrating on weights.
There’s a lot to be said for strength/power, especially in grappling. Of course, I’d bet five bucks that if that night was a boxing night instead of a grappling night, I would have been swallowing teeth…
you tapped four black belts in BJJ at a gym
you are so fucking lying right now. who were they? this can be verified within the day. who was the fighter
if it is a typo and you meant blue belts, then accept my apologies
I didnt want to be disrespectful but I thought the same thing? I read along and when I seen 4 Black belts I was like whoa because even purple belts are extremely dangerous in BJJ. Also being a wrestler/boxer I know that my muscular physic hinders my perfomance on the mat and the ring (its ok though because i no longer compete). You see power for fighting comes more from speed then muscles! Also Muscle consume alot of your heart rate so you will run out of air pretty fast! You see guys like Fedor who appear to have flacid bodys but are in such good shape and have so much power!
Anyways my points
Blackbelt in BJJ 6 to 10 years of 5 day a week training! Very hard to beat!
Muscles mean very little in MMA, Air and Skill is what wins matches
Dont mean to offend,
FF
[/quote]
Bullshit, Fedor and Mirko both have alot of muscle built up. While fedor has higher bodyfat, he still has alot of muscle built up, and he still uses resistance training.
And do you think crocop could have gotten legs that big without lifting?
First off, is this Pound4Pound guy even good at what he does? Is he known in whatever sport he may compete in?
He talked about training for 14 years and such, I am just wondering what he has to show for it besides him posing in his avatar.
You can say stop feeding the trolls, but if you take his argument seriously, he presented a few examples of great players from the past who supposedly did not weight train. This is only a handful of guys. He neglected to mention the other 99% of the league in which the those athletes competed in. You can’t use genetic freaks or the rare anomalies as hard evidence towards your theory.
But than again, you even admitted you were wrong so this thread should be dead.
Nice pink curtains in your avatar by the way, Pound4Pound.
Were you born stupid or did it take years of practice?
I’m sure we’d all love to see the resources you got this tremendous knowledge from!
[quote]BeastieChoi wrote:
You can say stop feeding the trolls, but if you take his argument seriously, he presented a few examples of great players from the past who supposedly did not weight train. This is only a handful of guys. He neglected to mention the other 99% of the league in which the those athletes competed in. You can’t use genetic freaks or the rare anomalies as hard evidence towards your theory.[/quote]
I think you’re missing the point. Those guys competed in leagues where nobody weight trained, so it proves nothing to say that they dominated those leagues without weight training themselves. If superstars of the past played in modern leagues, they would be massacred because the modern superstars have all the same skill, but are stronger, faster, and have more endurance due to the maturation of exercise science.
If what you’re saying is true (that superstars of the past did not weight train and played in leagues full of guys that weight trained), then it would be an awesome argument on his part. Unfortunately, it’s not true.
Fact of the matter is, while there are a handfull of athletes who don’t use weights, there are an even bigger bunch who do. Some better than others, some stronger, some faster, some genetically gifted, it doesn’t really matter.
Weight training has been shown to improve performance in athletics, and bodybuilding wouldn’t exsist without it. Pound4pound is a bodybuilder himself, I’ve seen him posting pix asking for advice, so his arguement is shit.
[quote]Ryu13 wrote:
FireFighter1046 wrote:
elliot007 wrote:
Fenris wrote:
An interesting bit of anecdotal trivia…
I trained JKD, boxing, and submission wrestling for a few years. Then I moved to a new city and couldn’t find a good trainer, so I slowly transitioned into powerlifting.
About a year and a half goes by and a local NHB fighter starts doing his classes at my gym. I had seen the guy fight in a local “King of the Cage” type thing, and he was pretty good. So I decide to check his class out. It’s Brazilian jui-jitsu.
I come in and warm-up while watching some of the black belts roll. They looked pretty good, and I hadn’t trained in over a year and a half- I had just been powerlifting. “I’m gonna get stomped” I say to myself and dive in.
I beat four black belts, all in my weight class. Only the actual NHB fighter tapped me (he was a weight class below me, BTW), and I gave him a run for his money. My techniques were a little sloppy, my timing off, and some of my submissions weren’t up to snuff. But because I was so much stronger than these guys I was able to break out of several submission attempts, control the pace, take them down hard, and suffocate them with a lethal side mount. All of that after neglecting fight training for a year and half and concentrating on weights.
There’s a lot to be said for strength/power, especially in grappling. Of course, I’d bet five bucks that if that night was a boxing night instead of a grappling night, I would have been swallowing teeth…
you tapped four black belts in BJJ at a gym
you are so fucking lying right now. who were they? this can be verified within the day. who was the fighter
if it is a typo and you meant blue belts, then accept my apologies
I didnt want to be disrespectful but I thought the same thing? I read along and when I seen 4 Black belts I was like whoa because even purple belts are extremely dangerous in BJJ. Also being a wrestler/boxer I know that my muscular physic hinders my perfomance on the mat and the ring (its ok though because i no longer compete). You see power for fighting comes more from speed then muscles! Also Muscle consume alot of your heart rate so you will run out of air pretty fast! You see guys like Fedor who appear to have flacid bodys but are in such good shape and have so much power!
Anyways my points
Blackbelt in BJJ 6 to 10 years of 5 day a week training! Very hard to beat!
Muscles mean very little in MMA, Air and Skill is what wins matches
Dont mean to offend,
FF
Bullshit, Fedor and Mirko both have alot of muscle built up. While fedor has higher bodyfat, he still has alot of muscle built up, and he still uses resistance training.
And do you think crocop could have gotten legs that big without lifting? [/quote]
Hey hotshot, read again, I didnt mention CROCOP, he has an awesome physic, And I mention that Fedor is very powerful but appears flacid! He does not use traditional methods of weight training. For mass or definition. I can go more into detail but I wont. Its a waste of time. The fact is you can weighttrain all you want and that aint going to make you a better fighter! thats my point and thats the truth. Look at the gracies(90%cardio)!
I will no longer respond so flame away, and try as hard as you can to look cool on a message board, because we all know how important that is!
FF
Hi guys,
I’ve been reading this thread for a while, but haven’t had the opportunity to respond until now.
Okay, I’m probably gonna get flamed for this but, I’m going to use this example because I believe it directly applies to the line of thinking being argued by Pound4Pound. The example is Bruce Lee.
Now, before anyone stops reading and goes on a rant about Bruce, hear me out.
Back in the 1960’s when Lee was alive the great majority of the athletic community shared the same type of thinking that Pound4Pound is arguing for. They believed that weight training would make an athlete slow, uncoordinated, bulky and decrease their over all athletic performance.
Lee however read a study wherein a swimming coach had his athletes perform upper body weight training exercises along with their regular swimming practice. To the coaches surprise/excitement all of his athletes improved their swim times. Lee thought, “if it works for swimmers, why not me?” So, he went against the dogma and began incorporating weight training.
The results? Lee improved his speed, agility, power, coordination, muscular endurance and over all athleticism. And, unless you are comparing him to Ghandi (not sure if that’s spelled right), I don’t think anyone would consider Lee bulky.
Since Lee’s resistance training revolution nearly all martial artists (at least those who train realistically) have incorporated resistance training into their workouts.
Of course there were those who were doing so at Lee’s time, if not since before. But Lee is the most well known.
That however brings up a good point; resistance training does not only mean lifting iron. FireFighter brought up Fedor, who is arguably (well ok, almost definetely) the best MMA fighter today. He also mentioned that Fedor does not perform “traditional” weight training, and he is right. But, Fedor does perform resistance training in the form of sledge hammer work among other things.
Resistance training will make you a better fighter. Sure, technique goes a long way and is essential, but all things being equal the stronger fighter/athlete will be superior.
Let’s take another example, Baseball. More specifically, home runs. For years Roger Marris held the record for the most home runs hit in a single season. Marris was incredibly skilled and arguably one of the best hitters the game has ever seen.
However, a few years ago his record was broken by Mark Macgwire. Macgwire certainly was not the technically skilled hitter that Marris was, but, due to his superior size, strength, and power, he was able to surpass Marris. When the fact that Macgwire hit those home runs against pitchers who on average could throw considerably harder than the pitchers Marris faced, and hit them in parks that were on average larger than the parks Marris played in, the record becomes even more impressive. Of course, only a couple years later Barry Bonds broke Macgwire’s record, then broke his own record the following year.
So, even though Marris was probably a more skilled hitter than Mac or Bonds, their size, strength, and power allowed them to surpass him.
Good training,
Sentoguy
Based on the research, the sad thing is that all those “old school” athletes never reached their true potential regardless of their dominance at the time. Had they trained for maximal strength, which can only be accomplished via progressive resistance, they would have only been that much more dominant.
“A good big man beats a good little man every time.”
Force= Mass X acceleration.
You can’t change the laws of physics.
Take the #1 Fly weight boxer and put him in a ring with the last ranked heavy weight and see who wins.
You can claim all you want, I’ve seen athletic non-martial arts trained guys level proclaimed “black belts” in secret XYZ art. A 240lb linebacker landing a forearm to the side of your jaw is likely going to drop you for the count regardless of your “secret art.”
I heard that Olympic lifting makes you slow, unathletic, and uncoordinated. Plus it has absolutey no use in any sports that I know of, which is probably why all those unathletic losers in the NFL do it…moron. I’m sure they never get laid either, because even though they are rich, they are just absolutley revolting to the opposite sex. Terrible post…
[quote]JavaGuru wrote:
“A good big man beats a good little man every time.”
Force= Mass X acceleration.
You can’t change the laws of physics.
Take the #1 Fly weight boxer and put him in a ring with the last ranked heavy weight and see who wins.
You can claim all you want, I’ve seen athletic non-martial arts trained guys level proclaimed “black belts” in secret XYZ art. A 240lb linebacker landing a forearm to the side of your jaw is likely going to drop you for the count regardless of your “secret art.”[/quote]
I guess you havent watched Bob Sapp get absolutely molested by little guys (100lb weight advantage) . He comes out looking good but his punches are slow and his gastank is small!
Anyways I probably came off the wrong way. When I read lifting I figured you guys ment Lifting for huge mass and a rock hard body. Fitness in any level will benefit all physically and mentally!
FF
[quote]FireFighter1046 wrote:
Hey hotshot, read again, I didnt mention CROCOP, he has an awesome physic, And I mention that Fedor is very powerful but appears flacid! He does not use traditional methods of weight training. For mass or definition. I can go more into detail but I wont. Its a waste of time. The fact is you can weighttrain all you want and that aint going to make you a better fighter! thats my point and thats the truth. Look at the gracies(90%cardio)!
I will no longer respond so flame away, and try as hard as you can to look cool on a message board, because we all know how important that is!
FF
[/quote]
Hotshot? You posted a pic of Mirko AND Fedor, both who have alot of muscle, both who use resistance training to better their performance.
Yes, lifting wont do shit for fighting skills or technique, but to the average civilian it’s better than nothing. It’s healthy and assists in alot of sports.
Quit getting so defensive, ya skinny bastard.
[quote]a_train08 wrote:
I heard that Olympic lifting makes you slow, unathletic, and uncoordinated. Plus it has absolutey no use in any sports that I know of, which is probably why all those unathletic losers in the NFL do it…moron. I’m sure they never get laid either, because even though they are rich, they are just absolutley revolting to the opposite sex. Terrible post…[/quote]
The funny thing is. People actually see a huge difference in oly lifts and “other” lifts. Some of you dumbfucks out there actually think oly lifts will make you better at something while normal lifts wont.
JavaGuru,
Could you please explain what this sentence is supposed to mean:
“You can claim all you want, I’ve seen athletic non-martial arts trained guys level proclaimed “black belts” in secret XYZ art.”
Are you saying that the guys aren’t trained in the martial arts? If so, why the “black belts” remark? If they are trained in the martial arts, why say they are non-martial arts trained? Sorry, the sentence just didn’t make sense to me.
Also, as far as the example goes. I’ve seen guys who weight 145lbs and are truly highly skilled martial artists, man handle 250lb powerlifters. My instructor who weighs around 230 has tossed every big guy I’ve ever seen him work with around like a rag doll, and the vast majority of them lifted weights regularly.
As a result of my experiences I would also argue that it’s not necessarily purely a matter of size, it’s more of a matter of strength. As firefighter pointed out Bob Sapp has been beaten by guys considerably smaller than himself. The best Heavyweight in the UFC, Andre Arlovski, is not the biggest.
Yes, size can be an advantage, if all else is equal. However, I’d rather have superior strength to superior size anyday.
Good training,
Sentoguy