And I’d be wary of the advice many of the PTs at your local gym have to offer. Every time I go to Gold’s and see some 19yr old PT telling a little old lady, who is in desperate need of some hip and leg strength, to do Pec Deck flies and biceps curls I want to publicly humiliate them.
[quote]magick wrote:
Your arms are not involved in a chin.[/quote]
This is ridiculous
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Biceps are more involved in chins than in pullups. This is why chins are useful if you can’t do a straight pullup. Let’s you get more assistance from your biceps to complete the movement. Also this is why many people alternate chins and pulls when they get strong enough to do both, so as to hit the biceps too.
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Get stronger on the deadlift to improve your chins. Amazingly enough, when you get stronger on the deadlift your back is much stronger. Making the pullups/chins doable. Seriously. Double your weight on the DL then try a pullup again.
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OP seems to be trolling simply because he’s asking for the impossible. He admits he hasn’t ever committed to a proper strength training program, having only put a few months in here and there. He says he wants mass, but then the telltale giveaways to his real thoughts are the incessant focus on BF%, height/weight scale, and talk crazy diets. He isn’t listening to the very simple answers here, and readily available from Tnation and other sites.
Look, if you want to get mass? Get stronger. At the numbers on lifts you listed, you are weak. That’s not a rip on you. That’s to point out that your numbers are weak, just like EVERYBODY ELSE that hasn’t put the time in to develop strength.
Strength takes time to build. You have to progressively increase the weight you lift. You have to eat. You have to rest.
There are several outstanding programs available to do this. Starting Strength, 5x5, and 5/3/1 are great places to start. All focus on the primary compound lifts that weak people NEED to do, and really it’s ALL THEY NEED TO DO for 6-18 months. Deadlift. Squat. Overhead Press. Bench Press. That’s it. Powercleans if you want. SS is great to teach you the lifts if you don’t know them, as proper technique is important to learn from the start so you don’t have to fix a bad ingrained habit later.
KEEP IT SIMPLE. There is no reason to complicate the lifts. That’s why those 3 programs I listed are perfect for beginners (and anybody really). Especially 5/3/1 where Wendler practically figures out the numbers FOR you so that you simply go to the gym and put in the work, and get the hell out. That article I listed above also tells you the same things. Keep it simple. You should be putting in about 3 hours per week in the gym. There is no need for more. And if you are lifting heavy (for you) as you ought to, trust me you WILL be working.
And once you pass the n00b lifter phase, you don’t even have to get complicated. You can literally do just the Big 4 exercises for the rest of your life, and you will get BIGGER STRONGER FASTER than you were the month before.
Double post (it’s not come up)
Whenever I miss a session, and i’ve missed around 4 or 5 (average of 1 a month) I do 5 sets instead of 3 (following Starting Strength framework). Or in today’s case, I did:
Bench 3x5 or 5x3
Overhead Press 3x5 or 5x3
Dips 2x 8
Abs
so tomorrow I could do
Squat 3x5 or 5x3
Deadlift 1-2 x 5
Chins 2x8
as I missed a day and I wanted to do a session before the weekend/follow the normal Rippetoes workout (as I said I only do 5 sets/ improvised routines if I miss a session)
But during the overhead press, which I found harder than last week even though I was using the same weight (as last week I struggled to get the reps), I felt a nasty neck pain on the left of my neck and I had to drop the weight. I think I struggled due to a combination of lack of rest and doing bench first.
I’ve been training for 4 months and i’m still not as strong as I used to be. During University I used to wrestle/grapple and do bodyweight exercises (I worked out 3 times a week on average).
Why is my strength taking so long to come back (I used to be at my strongest in 2012)? My neck pain stopped me training and I have a bad wrist from Jiu Jitsu but at least I can wear a wrist support. I wanted to take a picture in April as I thought i’d be 25-35lbs stronger on my lifts but i’ve got to deload now (plus my progress slowed down this last month).
I’m 15-30lbs off where I was last year I’m eating plenty too.
You want more strength: keep your focus.
From what you’re saying you should probably do:
- Deadlifts
- Squats
- Power Clens
- Pull-up work
- OHP or Bench Press.
Keep it simple, and don’t do Squats and Deads on the same day.
Follow a simple progression. Whenever you hit 5x5 on any of your lifts add weight and start again.
Start with a 5x3 with any given weight, once you hit your set/rep target add a rep to every set. You get to 5x5 you add weight and strat over. Take big rests between sets (minimum 2minutes).
Besides that, eat. Once you’ve finished eating, eat some more. After that sleep.
Building strength needs food and rest.
this is just someone who wants a shortcut
when does the mass come?
when u actually start trying
I only read the original post but all I found in that was excuses. Unless you’re a bird-boned 5’2’’ you wont get mass with those numbers and excuses.
I put on 20kg doing a crappy bodypart split with 3-5 sets of 8-12 when I was 18. But I ate heaps and trained my guts out 5 days a week.
Guess what? Commitment trumps what training plan you’re on - every time.
first off know that all initial strength gains are neural (your learning to use and become efficient with what mass you already have) once past that point the body must grow to continue to gain strength.
as an example.
going from benching 135-225 wouldnt create the same amount of muscle gain as say going from 225-315 would, provided your diets on track of course.
think long term… focus on increasing your strength dramatically over time in the 5+ rep range on your big lifts.
imagine if you got to a point where you could
squat 405x10
deadlift 500x5 or SLDL 375x10-12
bench press 315x8
military press your bodyweight for 6-8 reps
row 275x10 or do chin ups with 40-50lbs extra weight for reps
standing calve raise 400x15-20
you would be a very big strong mother fucker… not necessarily the most aesthetic or best looking, but that has alot more to do with genetics and the level of conditioning you want to maintain.
keep protein at 1.2-1.5 grams per pound of bodyweight and eat enough calories to get you gaining at a nice steady pace. also DO NOT neglect conditioning work it has alot of benefits even for people that bodybuild.
maintaining at least a decent level of cardiovascular conditioning has numerous benefits like.
-increased appetite
-ability to handle higher workloads and also to get said work done in a shorter amount of time
- increased recovery
so just do it…
[quote]magick wrote:
[quote]ronki23 wrote:
But my arms are still weak as I can’t chin or dip or do a handstand.[/quote]
Your arms are not involved in a chin or a handstand. The handstand is more balance and core, the chin is mainly back. The dip is the only exercise that requires a good bit of arm strength.
[/quote]
Curious as to how a pull up is possible without arms…
Every exercise done properly involves the core…
The handstand is more about shoulder mobility…
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
first off know that all initial strength gains are neural (your learning to use and become efficient with what mass you already have) once past that point the body must grow to continue to gain strength.
as an example.
going from benching 135-225 wouldnt create the same amount of muscle gain as say going from 225-315 would, provided your diets on track of course.
think long term… focus on increasing your strength dramatically over time in the 5+ rep range on your big lifts.
imagine if you got to a point where you could
squat 405x10
deadlift 500x5 or SLDL 375x10-12
bench press 315x8
military press your bodyweight for 6-8 reps
row 275x10 or do chin ups with 40-50lbs extra weight for reps
standing calve raise 400x15-20
you would be a very big strong mother fucker… not necessarily the most aesthetic or best looking, but that has alot more to do with genetics and the level of conditioning you want to maintain.
keep protein at 1.2-1.5 grams per pound of bodyweight and eat enough calories to get you gaining at a nice steady pace. also DO NOT neglect conditioning work it has alot of benefits even for people that bodybuild.
maintaining at least a decent level of cardiovascular conditioning has numerous benefits like.
-increased appetite
-ability to handle higher workloads and also to get said work done in a shorter amount of time
- increased recovery
so just do it…
[/quote]
What do I do about the neck pain? It’s a bit better than what it was 2 days ago but still hurts. My linear progression is also slowing down- I have to deload this week as moving my head/doing overhead movements is painful and obviously my form was bad for me to hurt my neck so I should work on that. Not happy with squat depth either.
I used to be much (10-20lbs) stronger in 2012 than I am now, i’m still adding weight every workout/every other workout but wrist injury slowed my progress for 2 weeks, as has missing a few workouts (I try remedy this by doing 5 sets in the next workout instead of 3).
Do deloads help? As it still hurts while I rest, i’ll do only leg press/seated arm work on Friday (or any exercise with back support/not involving me to move my arm overhead), but on Monday I should be healed.
Just wondering if I should do 5 sets on deload or only 3 when I get back to doing barbell work. Need to work on the form on squat/overhead press and (I THINK but i’m not sure) bench too.
[quote]Jarvan wrote:
[quote]magick wrote:
[quote]ronki23 wrote:
But my arms are still weak as I can’t chin or dip or do a handstand.[/quote]
Your arms are not involved in a chin or a handstand. The handstand is more balance and core, the chin is mainly back. The dip is the only exercise that requires a good bit of arm strength.
[/quote]
Curious as to how a pull up is possible without arms…
Every exercise done properly involves the core…
The handstand is more about shoulder mobility…[/quote]
No worries, I know most people fail to understand the meaning of context, especially on online forums.
I forgive you.
You just told someone that arms don’t matter in a pull up.
Anyone can understand that the back muscles are the major muscle group involved in pull ups and chins, but you just kinda threw the whole concept of body limbs out the window. The lats are useless without the humerus, and vice versa.
Have had 2 workouts since I injured my neck doing overhead press with 80lbs. It was a sharp pain on the left
have de loaded all my weights by 10lbs as my squat depth didn’t seem right
Last workout the leg press was out of order and we have no leg extension machine. This was the only workout I used machines as I needed back support. I did 3x5 overhand lever rows, 3x5 neutral grip lever rows,2x6 Incline Curls and 2x 6 Tricep Pushdowns. My neck still hurt when it came to sit ups.
Stared barbell work again today. Squat depth still doesn’t feel right and felt my back was niggling from it. Will stick to same weight next workout (de loaded from 210lbs to 200lbs for 5)
Overhead press I did 70lb for 5 reps with better form and found it just as challenging as 75lb for 5 (used to do 80 for 3)
Deadlifts I did 200lbs for 5.5-6 reps but I did 210lbs for 4 last week/205 for 5 week before and found it challenging
These deloads are not easy. In 2012 summer I did these 5RM and had a higher bench (140x5) and overhead (90x5 or 100x3)
It’s taking me 4 months to get my strength back and I wrestled,did no gi and did body weight exercises for reps last year at college. I’m struggling to get 5 meals in let alone 6 but I’m eating a lot and taking 1-2 shakes a day.
Perhaps it’s because for the first 3 months I was taking 600-1000ml milk post workout instead of protein and carbs? Or not enough vegetables? And yes I’m putting effort in, it’s just I have bad hand from jj and bad neck so did dumbbell work for one side for 2 of the sessions (not weeks but sessions) and I’ve missed 4-6 sessions so been making up by doing 5x5 instead of 3x5 for 4 of these 15ish weeks
And I’m at my heaviest but if I’m not at my strongest shirley some is fat weight (I’ve never been below 12% and I fluctuate around 15-22%)
Shut up. Work hard. Eat. Sleep. Don’t worry about the weights day to day. A deload is where you take a week easy and work with like 50-60% weights, not take off 5-10lbs. If you want fast strength gains perfect your technique.
I am not getting stronger recently- I guess I need to eat more protein (past 3 weeks I have been eating whole foods instead of protein shake). In fact, past 2 workouts it’s been harder (missing reps)
Squats- not happy with depth even though i’ve deloaded. 200lbs x 5 or 205 x 3
Bench- 132 x 5, 137.5 x 3
Deadlift- 210 x 5, 225 x 2
Overhead Press- 82 x 5, 88 x 3
Clean- 82x 5, 88 x 1
Past month has been hell. Plateuing.
Have depression though (hormones out of whack?) and my diet’s been eating anything as long as I get my protein intake; again the past 2 weeks missed protein shake
How many grams of protein were you getting on a good day, when you were also drinking shakes?
How many did you get per day last week?
[quote]LoRez wrote:
How many grams of protein were you getting on a good day, when you were also drinking shakes?
How many did you get per day last week?[/quote]
I honestly don’t know 
I had around 30-40g postworkout; breakfast normally consists of whole milk and cereal or almond milk and cereal with peanut butter toast
lunch is normally cheese sandwiches or houmous or egg sandwiches (3 eggs); that or eggs at breakfast
dinner is some sort of curry which is either beans or quorn (meat substitute). Again, as I only have 4-5 meals a day the dinner has carbs in it
before bed I have another shake or some cheese
diet is high in cheese!
I’ve not been measuring my macros due to the depression. But postworkout I have a thick protein shake of 30-40g OR i’ll have 20-30g protein and carbs
as I don’t have protein shakes atm I drink 600-1000ml skimmed milk postworkout
[quote]ronki23 wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
How many grams of protein were you getting on a good day, when you were also drinking shakes?
How many did you get per day last week?[/quote]
I honestly don’t know :([/quote]
I’m confused.
[quote]ronki23 wrote:
my diet’s been eating anything as long as I get my protein intake[/quote]
How can you be sure if you were hitting your protein intake if you don’t know how much you were getting?
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]ronki23 wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
How many grams of protein were you getting on a good day, when you were also drinking shakes?
How many did you get per day last week?[/quote]
I honestly don’t know :([/quote]
I’m confused.
[quote]ronki23 wrote:
my diet’s been eating anything as long as I get my protein intake[/quote]
How can you be sure if you were hitting your protein intake if you don’t know how much you were getting?[/quote]
I was just assuming and, if my strength and weight was going up, I stuck to it. But it’s not working anymore. And it was a lot of food I was eating (I had ice cream 1-2x a week)
Diet is essential to making progress on any program, and even more so in a program based on forced linear progression (like yours).
You’re going to keep stalling until you figure that piece out. Part of that is figuring out where you are (diet-wise), where you need to be (diet-wise), and then making it happen.
You already got a recommendation for how much protein you should be getting in this thread.
You know the things that you need to do to make progress, so figure out how to do it.