Any Programs Better Than Starting Strength?

Out of curiosity, what alternatives are there to Starting Strength and when can one switch around? From what I know there are several but [u]I don’t know when to switch/what to choose as an alternative or next step:[/u]

Stronglifts (good but not as good as Rippetoes I hear)

Hypertrophy Specific Routine

Bill Starr-this one is confusing-can someone find the original for me-there are many variations and I don’t know what 1*10 stands for when it asks for 5x5;it also says ramp up the weight to your 5RM but it doesn’t say how much by/what to start with!

All Pro

Any others? When does one do All Pro and SHOULD they? I don’t like the look of All Pro simply because the reps are too high (I used to do programs at 8-12 reps and my strength was increasing 2 reps a session but my overall poundages didn’t go up nearly as much as Rippetoes and people didn’t notice the size I added/they said it was negligent

Arnold’s Beginner Workouts

I read that the beginner workout used in Arnold’s Encyclopedia were what he suggested to his ‘juicing’ friends/when preparing for a contest but I was told doing the workouts once a week/doing it twice a week and eating lots will help-especially for beginners

[quote]
Note that he recommended 8-12 reps for upper body and 12-20 for lower body

Level I:

Mon, Thu:

4x Bench Press
4x Incline Press
4x Pullovers
Chin Up-50’s
4x Bent Over Rows
*Once a week Deadlifts- 10/6/4 to failure
5x Crunches (25 reps)

Tue,Fri:

4x Clean and Press
4x Lateral Raises
*Once a week-Upright Rows- 10/6/4 to failure
*Once a week-Push Presses- 6/4/2 to failure
4x Standing Barbell Curls
4x Seated Dumbbell Curls
4x Close Grip Bench Press
4x Barbell Tricep Extension
5x Reverse Crunches (25 reps)

Wed,Sat:

4x Squats
4x Lunges
4x Leg Curls
5x Calf Raises (15 reps)
*Once a week-10/6/4 Straight Legged Deadlifts
*Once a week-10/6/4 Good Mornings
5x Crunches (25 reps)[/quote]

Apparently Arnold actually did this type of workout in the offseason/prescribed it to beginners-he says 3x a week; I assume 2x a week would also work?

[quote]
Squat 4x10
Bench Press 3x10
Chins/Pulldowns 3x10
Behind-Neck Press 4x10
Barbell Curl 3x10
Sit Ups 4x20[/quote]
A member of T-Nation recommended I create my own workout

[quote]
Do a push/pull/legs split.

6x a week.

3 Days on 1 Day off.

This gives you 4 days of rest between each day/phase of training.
As a beginner, you don’t use heavy enough weight to warrant longer than 4 days of rest.
As a beginner, you don’t use heavy enough weight to warrant a body part split.

Choose 2 basic money exercises per body part and 2 accessory exercises per body part.
E.g. Chest: Flat Bench, Incline Bench - DB Flyes, DB Decline Bench.

For a push day you need to hit your chest, deltoids and triceps. This totals 6 money exercises and 6 accessory exercises.

This is a lot of exercises.

Bench will probably utilize the triceps somewhat as well as the deltoids. So I recommend doing 1 money exercise and 1 accessory for each muscle other than the chest.

BUT…

If you are bringing up deltoids give them the most exercise attention. Same for triceps.

Do 3-6 work sets for each money exercise.
Do 3 work sets for each accessory exercise.

Do 6-10 reps for each money exercise.
Do 8-12 reps for each accessory exercise.

Lift as above, Eat then repeat.[/quote]
Finally my Uncle said routine 1,5 and 6 work well in the following; he’s new to this so why do programs like the above All Pro and Golden 6 and random internet programs work for everyone but it took me several years to find I respond to sets of 5 and most personal trainer programs suck for me?

Umm…what exactly are your goals?

[quote]ryno76 wrote:
Umm…what exactly are your goals?[/quote]

Strength and size and fat loss-basically the norm

Texas method, any of the madcow routines, 5/3/1, juggernaut method, and any basic bodybuilding split.

What’s your first goal? Strength? Size? Or Fat Loss?

Over time you can get all of it.

Do you have a goal weight? Do you have goal measurements?

Are you doing any program right now?

…you shouldn’t ignore HIIT training or circuits. Some recommend a cycle with 6 week per that looks like hypertrophy (6 weeks), to strength (6 weeks), and then endurance (6 weeks). I like the sealfit principle for my fat loss - lift heavy, do a weighted circuit, finish with steady state cardio.

[quote]LoRez wrote:
What’s your first goal? Strength? Size? Or Fat Loss?

Over time you can get all of it.

Do you have a goal weight? Do you have goal measurements?

Are you doing any program right now?[/quote]

Starting Strength at the moment-originally I wanted to get big and in shape but now I do martial arts in the form of kickboxing,judo and wrestling, I want to get strong

What do you think of the above (first post)? I couldn’t find the Starr routine/understand what there was but Stronglifts looks appealing.

All Pro,HST and both of Arnold’s beginner workouts work but I don’t know why they are so crap when I try them (only tried Golden 6); never tried any of the workouts my Uncle sent me but i’m not a fan of workouts over 8 reps simply because i’ve added more size and strength with sets of 5.

People say hypertrophy routines will add size better-especially after a strength foundation but All Pro and HST have been suggested to beginners-do they work for beginners if the beginners don’t build strength first.

Had I not used the internet i’d be stuck with personal training and creaing workouts. Actually,why ARE personal trainers in shape/have big muscles but their bodybuilding programs so rubbish?
Edit/Delete Message

If you’re doing Starting Strength, why do you want to change programs?

From what I understand… just stick with it until you stop seeing gains. Then do Madcow or 5/3/1. That’s the advice “everyone” seems to suggest.

But you seem to want to change. Why?

RegParks 5x5 (the best/most recommended IMOTBQH if you actually want to also focus on being bigger/more rounded and stronger)

StrongLifts 5x5 is the same as Starting Strength, it eventually becomes 3x5 just like that program anyways. MadCows 5x5 is great,but you are supposed to use it when you have stalled many times on the SS/SL programs (AKA when you’re usually around 300 squat and 400-450 deadlift).

^ That’s my best suggestion.Unbelievable gains,can’t believe how happy I am I ran that program and everybody else who has is too.You gotta have a good amount of time,lots of meat,and rest available to yourself though; but as a newb basically anything is possible pahah.

[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
RegParks 5x5 (the best/most recommended IMOTBQH if you actually want to also focus on being bigger/more rounded and stronger)

StrongLifts 5x5 is the same as Starting Strength, it eventually becomes 3x5 just like that program anyways. MadCows 5x5 is great,but you are supposed to use it when you have stalled many times on the SS/SL programs (AKA when you’re usually around 300 squat and 400-450 deadlift).

^ That’s my best suggestion.Unbelievable gains,can’t believe how happy I am I ran that program and everybody else who has is too.You gotta have a good amount of time,lots of meat,and rest available to yourself though; but as a newb basically anything is possible pahah.

[/quote]

Has anyone made good progress on a 3-5 x 8-12 rep progress without starting this; just wondering if i’ve wasted my time doing hypertrophy programs/personal programs and the programs written for beginners with such high reps.

As I said, I got stronger by 1-2 reps per session,0.5-2lbs a week and added an inch or two but people kept saying I made little progress.

You have measurable progress. Just keep doing that.

Maybe you could have grown faster doing something else, maybe not. But what you’re doing sounds like it’s working.

Are you really going to change programs because other people say you’re not making enough progress?

If you want better progress while sticking with the same program, lift harder, lift heavier, eat more.

I suggest SS because I did it, wether your goal is hypertrophy or strength.
Stronglifts is a ripoff from a variety of good programs: SS, Bill Starr, Reg Park…
Originally it was just 5x5 and when you stalled you had to change program, then he added that you could switch to 3x5 and then 1x5. He did this because the original program doesn’t work, doing 5x5 you will stall very soon.
Most of the sentences and cues in the technique guides on his site are basically quoted from SS and he doesn’t even mention it. Besides you have to pay to register to the forums (complete scam) while you can register and talk to Rippetoe himself freely on his forum.

[quote]ronki23 wrote:
Any Programs Better Than Starting Strength?[/quote]

The takeaway from SS is the high frequency lesson it teaches. For rank-noobs hitting the main lifts 2-3 times per week is key. It teaches the movement pattern and beginners see their numbers go up rapidly which ads confidence.

Both the “Arnold Level 1” and the “T-Nation Member recommendation” in your first post look good to me.

If you apply the above principle to any program you will see great results, giving you eat like a horse and train with intensity and consistency.

[quote]JLone wrote:

[quote]ronki23 wrote:
Any Programs Better Than Starting Strength?[/quote]

The takeaway from SS is the high frequency lesson it teaches. For rank-noobs hitting the main lifts 2-3 times per week is key. It teaches the movement pattern and beginners see their numbers go up rapidly which ads confidence.

Both the “Arnold Level 1” and the “T-Nation Member recommendation” in your first post look good to me.

If you apply the above principle to any program you will see great results, giving you eat like a horse and train with intensity and consistency. [/quote]

What about the bevvy of workouts my Uncle gave me from that website and All Pro?
I’m only asking because i’ve tried workouts with 3-4 sets of 6-12 reps and they suck for me :confused:

They “suck” for you? What are you expecting from them? You’re not going to see results overnight.

[quote]LoRez wrote:
They “suck” for you? What are you expecting from them? You’re not going to see results overnight.[/quote]

Whenever I did a program with higher reps (6-12) for multiple sets, either Arnold’s Golden 6, Bruce Lee’s Overall Muscularity Routine or a self made workout, my weight was going up 1-2lbs a week and my lifts by 1 or 2 reps and bodyfat reduced a percent or two but at the end of it everyone said I made little progress looking at pics even though I add an 1-1.5" on to various bodyparts;

not saying i’m making substantially better photographed progress on SS but at least I got a hell of a lot stronger

Thanks guys,

My aim is to build a muscular body with low bodyfat percentage AND be good athletic wise- the current crop of physiques do differ but they all are near 200lbs,have fairly low bodyfat and are fairly strong-not Hulk strong but still strong. These are the kind of physique I am aiming for:

If I had the genetics or ‘arsenal’ available to me i’d want to look like this

[quote]ronki23 wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
What are you expecting from them?[/quote]

[I make lots of real, measurable progress, but…] everyone said I made little progress looking at pics even though I add an 1-1.5" on to various bodyparts;
[/quote]

So, you want people to tell you that you made progress? That’s your goal?

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]ronki23 wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
What are you expecting from them?[/quote]

[I make lots of real, measurable progress, but…] everyone said I made little progress looking at pics even though I add an 1-1.5" on to various bodyparts;
[/quote]

So, you want people to tell you that you made progress? That’s your goal?[/quote]

No but if nobody notices the progress then it must not work very well-especially when the programs used to be 6-20 weeks long/switching every 6 weeks

the SFW program