If the program works it works, I guess.I don’t know for sure if Caoch Davies told people told people he trained Ben Johnson,I’m just some guy on the net,but I guess it doesn’t matter as long as the program gives people results,I was curious or not if the program was effective,thats why I asked what world classs athletes he trained.
Terminator, it only takes a little money and creativity to get all the equipment you need. I’m not sure what your sport is but agility laddders, cones, a med ball, dragging sled, sledgehammer, tire (free), wheelbarrow, and sand are relatively cheap. Chains and k-bells are more expensive. I made my own ladder for $15, sled for $20, wheelbarrow for $40, sand is $2 for 80 lbs., tire for free, sledgehammer for $20. Just buy 1 at a time if the budget is tight.
Adam, you hit the nail on the head. We renegades must be good time management people in order to get our responsibilities taken care of. It’s not easy but it can be done.
WSTRAINER, while the “Renegade” programs might be higher in volume in comparison to your workouts, they are not “too” high. I would think most pro athletes who aren’t blessed with all the talent in the world (even some that are) have similar work ethic. As for not having a life, or friends, or girlfriends, well you’re flat out wrong and this type of criticism is ludicrous. I have a wife, 16 month old son, friends, work 20 hours a week, go to school full-time (15 hours), and train Renegade style. I manage to do four 2 hour morning workouts and 4-5 1 hour evening workouts every week. On top of that, I make time for my son & wife and earn excellent grades through disciplined study. You feel the need to criticize us because you know that you can’t be one of us. You don’t have the heart, discipline and won’t make the sacrifices we do. I’m not going to waste any more time on you.
Christian, I agree with you concerning the strength training with weights. I have made alterations as well but have employed many of Davies’ stuff.
Everyone, keep in mind that these workouts are not 100% effort every time. A 2 hour workouts is not 2 hours straight of weights at 100%. For me it is, a 20 minute GPP warm-up, 10 minutes hip mobility, 5 minute circuit, 60 minutes weights, 15 minutes post-workout stretch. Try it some time.
Stronski,Ian actually said it to my face but quickly changed the subject when I told him I know Charlie and Ill be sure to ask him about next time.Poliquins another chapter.To Adam Marshall,thats great that you like to train for 2 hours but I myself can do a complete workout, take a shower, get laid, take another shower, and end up at a party all within 2 hours.Hows that for time management?As far as equipment is concerned I hope by now most of you know that $100000 of Hammer equipment is not neccessary (nor welcomed).Look at farmers,construction workers and other labourers,these are the guys with great work capacities not the bodybuilders that get dropped at the bar for spreading his “wings”.To Corporal,I wasnt personally attacking Coach Davies,I just mentioned that I heard a rumor.Ive been in this game long enough to know not to trust every Tom,Dick and Harry strength coach that wants you to buy his programs,attend his seminars/internship,buy their books and videos.I was just passing on info that may protect someone from being dissapointed.Im sorry if I did something wrong and promise to keep my mouth shut on these matters.As long as im around ill try to do my best to protect people from getting scammed.To Paul,that may be the right story.To Louden Swaine,Ive been tutored on “physical Preparation” since the age of 7 under the guidance of a Bulgarian Track & field coach and have participated in the developement of young up and comers to the advanced in all sports for as long as I can remember,so yes I consider myself to be quite experienced.I dont however act to know it all nor do I claim to.I CAN and TRY to learn from others in all fields of life.I used to be a strength coach at a University,not for the money but to hang in a gym and monitor the developement of atletes at that level and see how my programs work in the real world.I now work at a country club for HUGE dollars.My clientel is very busy and have no time for guessing games.I must design plans that are both short (in time) and effective (short and long term).King-Francis and WestSide all get their work done within 45-60 min,but for the Renegades it sounds like this isnt enough punishment and the more is better pholosophy applies.Sounds like a spiritual thing,maybe Ill get rid of my wife and kid and become a Renegade too.
In my last post I addressed Terminator first when I meant to address J who asked the questions regarding equipment. My apologies.
The biggets advantage is that it works and it’s FUN! I am not a pro athlete (far from it) and train because I like it, I am not particularly strong and have no huge desire to be, I love training and ‘feeling fit’ Renegade training does this. As for the time factor, if something is important you make time. As for who Coach Davies trains that is famous I read Brett Favre somewhere so that may account for the Packers connection, but to be totally honest I don’t care, because I judge a program for what it does for me.
I think that the reason some people don’t think the Renegade training protocols are all that effective is because we tend to lose sight of why people train. Will renegade training make you the biggest guy out there? No, it’s not supposed to. It’s designed to make you a better athlete in your chosen sport. Sprinters have entirely different need than basketball players, so why train like them? Even within the same sport, players have different needs. Do you think that Emmitt Smith trained like Dexter Coakley? Not very likely.
As far as people claiming to have worked with Ben Johnson … I don’t believe that Poliquin ever made that claim. I looked through all his old articles, and the only time I saw Johnson mentioned was when Charles was talking about things that he had discussed with Charlie Francis.
Guys,relax,I didnt mean to piss anyone off.I wonder who gave out my address,as I just arrived home I witnessed 2 Renegades doing some GPP sledgehammer work on my front door.Cant please everyone.To Machine,your not the only one with responsibilities around here.But im glad you’ve found low intensity-long duration workouts to be useful,thats what makes training such a science,finding what works.As far as I dont have what it takes,after about 12 years of Weightlifting,14 years of kick-boxing,and participating in other sports here and there,maybe you can help me achieve a higher level of physical preparation,but please leave the sledgehammer at home.
Anyone who takes internet rumors at face value is a fool. If training renegade style may not be anything new, but if that is the case, then many have forgotten and Coach Davies is here to wake us up. As for the detractors, that is why it’s called “Renegade Training”.I have begun to incorporate Renegade training into my routine, and will more than likely be purchasing the MMA workout (yeah thats right purchase, hate to break it to you but some people make a living selling their training ideas, god forbid that they actually proftit from it.), and I do so knowing that if I have any questions, or need to make alterations, all I have to do is send Coach an e-mail and he will get back to me as soon as he can (and you will be surprised at how fast he gets back to you).
I think just about everyone understands that people are going to choose different programs. If you really wanted to help Terminator, it probably would have been better if you did it in a more mature manner. Tell him what you don’t like about the program and why. Maybe even include something you like better. The purpose should be to educate him and then let him make his own decision.
Or, maybe you are just the type who likes to stir the pot so to speak.
Have you emailed Coach yet? Email him, ask him any and all questions you have. Get the facts then decide if it is right for you or not.
Ko just said exactly what was on my mind. A lot of what the Coach says is not new. So what? He’s bringing back some of the good stuff, and you don’t have to even buy the program to benefit. My god… just having a more renegade attitude would benefit most people. And you don’t HAVE to do a 2 hour program to benefit. Believe me, 15 minutes of GPP would be very beneficial to a lot of people. The programs I have seen all have seemed like well thought out program that can be manipulated to suit personal variables. Its like the money-exercise program Christian put in an article a couple issues back - it was intended for elite-level athletes with optimum recovery conditions. It doesn’t mean that whats in there isn’t valuable and worth looking at! My athletic ability shot through the roof incorporating 10 minutes of GPP into my training and 3 ab exercises Davies brought to my attention. So, the advantage is that what Coach Davies uses is effective.
I just thought I’d note that Renegade Training entails far more than just weight training and cardio. This is the reason that the workouts take 1.5 - 2 hours. The weight component alone takes around 45min, not 2 hours. By the time cardio (rope), agility, sprints, weights, GPP and flexibility are done 2 hours will have passed. I think that ANY PROGRAM which included all of these would require around 2 hours of total training time, not just renegade training. The renegade training program is, like chris said, a whole complete training program much more than weights and cardio. Also the volume in Coaches programs does not increase infinitely. The programs are properly periodized.
It also can be said that Coach Davies has also had a large influence on the Westside Barbell guys
This is why I tend to avoid arguments. It’s not a matter of convincing you. I could care less how YOU train. I will, however, support the Renegade training style. That was my intention. I responded to your immature assumptions that a Renegade must forsake having friends, a girlfriend/wife, and a life due to high volume training. I pointed out my own situation to prove that it is possible. If you’re not an athlete and don’t need to train like one then don’t. But I will and there is no reason to criticize it.
What most people don’t understand, you included as pointed out in your initial response, is that athletes can’t afford to do “low” volume training. A collegiate or pro football player who plays every down (offense or defense) can’t do just 1 hour lifting workouts, four times a week and be ready for games. The guy would be in poor condition and wouldn’t last more than 5 plays.
Re-read my post and look for the words “low intensity workouts”. You won’t find them. I never said that. What I did say is that not every aspect of a workout is all out, balls to the wall intense. If you did that every day, twice a day for 2 hours each, you would eventually regress. I’m sure you know that since you have “12 years of Weightlifting, 14 years of kick-boxing” under your belt. Apparently, you did NOT know that most athletes don’t train like bodybuilders. Some of them actually have friends, a girlfriend/wife, and a life. Can you believe that?
On a side note, if you take a look at T-mag, it is obvious that Coach Davies offers a lot of his methods for “free”. I know people like to attack strength coaches who charge for their programs. I’m sure you can relate here since you are a trainer at a country club. I can’t respond to the rumors about Ben Johnson as I have no knowledge on this matter. In conclusion, I think the only reason people were offended by your post was because of your abc assumptions. Next time, you might try thinking before writing. Unless of course, you still believe in your aforementionted assumptions.
One more thing. I assume from your handle, WSTRAINER, you train using West Side methods? Well then, don’t you include GPP into your plan? Also, you realize where Louie Simmons and gang got the idea of GPP from, don’t you? So what’s with hating on high volume training?
As for educating people that was the topic of my previous thread “education material”.If you participated you would have remembered.What I hoped to achieve in that thread was to educate the people about education material such as seminars/books/videos/etc so that they can protect themselves from being ripped off which is all to common in this field.It looks like alot of people on this board are easy to manipulate.First everyone worships the ground Charles Poliquin walks on,then Ian King,then Don Alessi,and now John Davies.Look guys,If theres a training method or system that I dont know about Ill hire these guys to show me.But as far as training goes,everything is being repackaged under diferent names (German Volume Training)and gimmicks.By the way Chris,what is your background and age.Im trying to determine the maturaty level of some Renegades,because i know on other boards people are not that impressed with Renegade Training (usually the guys that have been around and KNOW how to train people because thats what they do for a living).
Wstrainer is so superior to we lowly followers! Lead us on mighty warrior into the light! You’re so smart and superior and cool and tough and manly! We bow to your vast knowledge! The coaches you know are better than the coaches we know! You RULE!
Okay, now that I’ve given him what he needs, maybe he’ll shut up.
Took a look at these variety of posts this morning and I guess I really need to keep getting to point across of what Renegade Training is, and what it stands for in and out of the training facility. As was noted, I will be make a brief detour to NYC after Snowboarding in Vermont in the next 2 weeks, so hopefully some of us can meet up. Have a great Sunday. In faith, Coach Davies
Chris I’ll E-mail the coach today or tommorow and ask him questions I have about renegade training.
Paul chill out.
Let us know if you decide to try Renegade style training.Id be interested in bi-weekly updates if possible.You never told us what your training goals are.Good luck.
westside my focus is on increasin my speed. I’m not on the track team at my college, but i plan to run unattached at a open meet that they will have at the school. Westside if you could give me some pointers that would be great:)