I did box squats with chains for the first time yesterday. I have used T-mag training routines for a couple years now, but have never had a dozen people staring at me with looks of shock. I love this stuff.
On a seperate note, do you guys find bands or chains to be more benificial in training? I think lugging around the chains is counter-acting there usefulness.
When you say you add additional workouts, do you mean increasing GPP via sled or other mechanisms, or do you mean working out between the 4 prescribed days?
Personally I have used both chains and bands, and bands are by far better. The bands have helped me a lot. I also have experimented with chains and bands at the same time and still liked the bands alone better. My favortie use for the chains is if i am feeling beat up on max effort becnh day ill use the close grip chain press for a max set of 5 or 3 to get some blood in the upper body. The only problem with bands is beginer over use. I am a 400 plus bencher and i still dont use the bands on any form of max effort work becaus it beats me up and i feel i am not ready for that kind of training. I use the minis for 3 weeks with a diffirent percent each time never going over 55% for dynamic bench days. After that 3 week cycle I take a beak for 2 weeks from bands and use 60 % streight weight. For the squat I use the bands for 2 weeks and on the 3rd week I use straight weight for 15 sets. My band use for the squat usually is 8 x2 with heavy band tension and 20 x2 with a light band and the safety squat bar for conditioning work. I Have also found that if i go more than 2 weeks with heavy band tension my hips get to beat up and my squat actually goes down. In closing the bands are the best training tool out there but be carefull of not overusing them. remember westside was the strongest gym in the world for 13 years before they ever used there first band.
good luck big martin
This is a fantastic thread! I tried Big Martin’s advice of 20x3r @40%1RM for DE Bench press with about 20 second rest periods. I’m fairly new(read:weak) in benching because of focusing on olympic lifting in the past. My 1RM at the moment is about 210lbs, thus I used 40kg(88lbs) for the above DE exercise. I found the exercise to be too easy, like I could have thrown the bar if I wanted to. I can be very explosive because of my olympic lifting experience. The 20-second rests and 20 sets did not fatigue me at all. Should I consider adding bands? I am new to the system and thought I should get my strength up to respectable numbers before doing so. What is your opinion of this? Should I up the percentage until I feel it is a little more restrictive in terms of bar speed? I’ve read where Louie Simmons suggests that the %'s are not written in stone and that you have to adjust them based on bar speed first,ie: always try to maintain a consistent bar speed. I’ve never watched the Westside videos, so I’m not sure of what the bar-speed should look like, exactly. Do you know of any links on the net with video of these lifts?
Loopfit- based on your experence and max bench go ahead and raise your % to 60 with straight weight.Go ahead and keep the sets at 20 x3 and concentrate on moving the bar with perfect form as fast as you can.If you use the mini bands and hook them up right you will have a lot of tension then go ahead and drop your percent back down 40-45. Thank you loopfit you remind me of something i want to remind all west side beginers. You have to remember that part of the conjugate method is about developing work capacity. And by workcapacity i dont man the ability to do a endless number of asseccory movments, i am talking about the ability of our cental nervous systems to adapt to handeling heavy weights. This is why the westside system works it trains the cns first and the body second. One of the major objectives of the conjugate method is to develop work capacity through large volumes of special exerscices. West side is much like strong man training in that perspective. Now how does one raise work capacity with out overtraining?The most important thing to do is to put the most effort and focus into the special exerscices and those are determined by wich day it is (dynamic or max effort). This creates a problem for a beginer who has a low max on any particualar lift. Jim Wendler discussed this with a high school football coach while I was attending a west side seminar and it made a lot of sence to me. A beginer must raise his volume and work capcity while giving the majority of his energy to the special movement and a mass building assceccory. How do you accomplish this well 3 things.
2 questions to the the big boys.
A. do you use belts? if so, on which excersize? I never use a belt - stupid?
B.do you workout after a P+F meal or a P+C meal? whats the best nutrition for power?
btw I did some pull-throughs today this shit is awesome!! I dont have a glute ham bench so Ill be hitting this often…
ill answer the nutrition question first. you are thinking too much. period. Next i wear a belt on dynamic day only. Some wear it more often. Its up to you.
I will wear a belt on DE squat day for box squats, when getting up near a max on certain ME squat/dl exercises, and when doing heavy shrugs.
I have always preferred to have a P+F meal before lifting for many reasons, however, if I have to eat P+C prior I don’t sweat it.
What’s the reasoning behind the belt on DE box squats?
best nutrition for power is taco bell.
I typically try to get some good fats and proteins in before … about an hr before workout … then during workout I’ll have a protein/carb drink … the after workout … I surge it up.
I’m tough like that 
I’ve been following the thread lately. Great stuff. I know that several have recommended Westside for me (Goldberg, Irondoc, siscokid), but I had a few questions.
Yes, I have read all of Tate’s stuff on T-mag, as well as other stuff on elite. I’ve always understood the program, but never really found myself wanting to use it for my training since I am not a powerlifter.
So I’m wondering, for bodybuilding and strength purposes, could the program be tailored to serve those needs? Instead of using some of the exercises that the Westside gang uses (Good Mornings, some of the squat and deadlift exercises), could other exercises be used for strength and hypertrophy? Chad Waterbury wrote an article about doing two max effort days and two high-rep days (similar to Westside). So could Westside be changed to something like that? Instead of Dynamic-Effort days, you would do high-rep training? And do low-rep training on the Max-Effort days? Then divide the body into upper body and lower body?
Any suggestions, comments or feedback? Thanks!
Jared NFS- The reason the belt is used on dynamic day is beacause it teaches you to use your abs (it is a form thing). You wear the belt one knotch loose and push the abdominals against the belt forcing your core to inlarge and then in return you squat off a larger base. Thats why all westside guys Have huge stomachs it really helps in squating.
Nat Dogg- I do not know much about bodybuilding but i will tell you this westside participants usually gain about 30 pounds in there first year.
Glute Spamker- I have always found that 3 egg mcmuffins 2 hash browns and 2 large coffes have always helped me set new pr’s. LoL … Glute Spanker I eat everything i can get my hands on.
Good luck Big martin
big martin - thanks.
Nate, I’m in the same boat as you. Not really a powerlifter, but looking to get stronger and larger.
I suspect, though, that an intelligently constructed pure-Westside program will put on at least as muscle as a comperable bodybuilding program, and with more strength to match.
I can’t really back this up with anecdotal evidence, but that is my feeling.
Think about it: If you go and put 100lbs on your all-time deadlift or squat max, I think you’ll be bigger! 
BigMartin, thanks for your advice. Should the Reverse workout(warm-up first-mainlift second) be done all the time or is it something that is recommended for a few weeks alternated with regular order workouts? I will order some mini-bands and try alternating them for a couple weeks and see how it feels with the 40%20x3. When I do 60%-20x3, do I still use 20-second rests or should I bring this up as well? I also noticed that on your example of ME day, you work up to a daily max single but you only had about 3 sets of singles before you maxed out. Everything I’ve read by Tate shows more of a progression along: 3x5r,3x3r, 5-6x1r. He uses far more sets of singles, so for a 210max bencher, I would have thought something along the lines: 1x45/5r, 1x65/5r, 1x95/3r, 2x115/3r, 1x135/2r, 1x155/1r, 1x170/1r, 1x185/1r, 1x200/1r, 1x210/1r. I figure, maybe he uses so many singles because he is dealing with far greater weights and your example is better suited for someone at your stage because you are not using as much weight as he is. Am I correct in this thinking?
I like hitting singles pretty quick because i want to be sure to break a pr and i dont want to get burned out with 3’s. Most of the time i will do a down set of 5’s though when i get done.
Nate-I think doing the program like it is laid out would be the best way to go with some higher end rep work on assistance exercises. Good Mornings are so key. I would never take them out.
Loopfit your are right your progression for ME work looks real good. Goldberg is also right in that PR’s are important, and closing the Number of singles is smart. Why I did so much 3 & 5’s is because Bob Youngs on elite fitness said he is trying a cycle of 3 & 5’s so i decided to, but i wanted to make sure i was still hitting up the singles also. So i added more sets of 3 and 5’s.
GOod luck Big martin
Great, I’ll try that progression with a down set of 5reps to up the volume. Is there any percentage of max or such when choosing the weight for the down set or do I just play it by feel?
Nate I use the program even though my competition days aren’t quite here yet. Why? It keeps me big and strong. It’s a well balanced program that takes care of all aspects of strength. My size also came up.
Sometimes I freelance when I’m hurt Nate. This week my right shoulder is dicey, so I did three sets of 5 on the incline press with 135 to do work without overdoing it. I’ll stick with board presses, lockouts from chains, and pin press to take stress off the shoulders. I’ve also been hitting pushdowns and pulldowns to take some additional stress oof the elbows.
I’ll change around again when I’m healed up.