I am about to start the beginner Westside program tommorrow from elitefitness and I had a few questions and was hoping some of the resident Westside experts and those who have done the program might chime in. I have read the 8keys series and i am going through the simmonstate threads, but I am anxious to start tommorrow, so forgive me if I havent uncovered the answers myself yet.
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I thought the idea was to train a different max exersize every week for the bench to avoid burnout, yet the program has you doing board presses for ME day for repeated weeks. Is there a reason?
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I dont have access to a reverse hyper machine or a Glute ham machine. I think I remember pull throughs can be used instead of one of them. Short of changing gyms, what can I substitute for them, and is there a different rep scheme for the substitute exersizes.
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I dont have board made yet for board presses and usually train alone, so I am thinking it might be easier to just use a cage with safety bars set at the level that a board would be on my chest. Is there any problem with this. I know Westsiders do pin presses and I am not sure what the difference between what I just described and what a pin press is, and how they would recruit different muscles than a board press if they would. Also, is there a general rule of thumb, or percentag on how much bigger you can go on bench for board presses over a full bench?
Thanks for helping a newbie out.
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it’s a program for beginners. the once a week rule applies to advanced athletes. beginners can train the same movement with no problem for up to 3 weeks.
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it’s not the exercise used, it’s the muscles trained, albeit reverse hypers and ghr’s on a good ghr bench are very good.
substitues for rh: pull through’s, regular hypers, sumo dl’s
substitues for ghr: dimel dl’s, romanian dl’s, sldl’s, snatch grip dl’s, snatch grip sldl’s, stability ball leg curls, band leg curls, 45 degree hyper ext’s, strict stiff leg gm’s
I’ve been hitting Westside style now for about 14 weeks. I have been lifting for about 3 years after a sit on my ass layoff of about 5 years. I was doing the typical “bodybuilding” workout with several friends and was stagnant. I took a job promotion which changed my shift and required a new workout time. I’m working out alone which sucks but I new it was the right time to go Westside. It is working. I’ve gone from a 315 bench(which looked like crap) to a solid 340 in this time. I’ve switched ME first execise three times in the 14 weeks(flat bench to floor press to board press to flat press) and could tell a difference immediately when going back to the flat bench. Just give the program a try and KEEP AT IT. The best advice I can give is leave the weightroom feeling like you got just a little more to give. It feels weird at first especially if you are used to going to failure, but it will work!
Good luck!
PS Not only are the weights moving up but so is muscle size! Don’t let any one tell you Westside will not let you get big.
Had my first Workout Today and somethings came up. I dont think I know how to do Dimmel Deadlifts, Pullthroughs, or Pulldown Abs right since Its my first time with the exerisizes. (I was doing Dimmels and Pullthroughs since I dont have a GHR machine or a Reverse Hyper)
For Dimmels how low are you supposed to let the bar go down on the eccentric?
For Pullthroughs, wear do your hands end? I know its supposed to be a lower back exersize but I am still not sure If I was doing it right?
And for Pulldowns, I must be missing something hear, I didnt feel them at all in my Abs, and everytime I tried upping the weight I couldnt go back to horizontal without getting pulled backwards into the weight stack.
Heres my log if anyone wants to comment
GM Arched Back, to Parallel
95x3
115x3
135x3
145x3
155x3
165x3
175x1
185x1
195x1
205 Fail
Dimmel Deadlifts
145x20, x 3 sets
Pullthroughs
100x10, x 4 sets
Pulldown Abs
100x13, 100x 10, 100 x 10
Straight Leg Raises
14, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10
As a beginer it is ok to do the same max effort exerscice for 3 weeks think of it is building a bas the only thing i would change is on the board press do a diffirent bord height each week 2-3-4,
substitutes for reverse hypers and ghr are dimel deads, pull throughs, deadlifts standing on boxes both sumo and traditional, romanaian deadlifts, stiff leg, deadlifts, med ball pull through throws, band gm,
I dont think those pin presses would be a good thing and wouldnt be the same as board presses, if you have not got the boards this week i would do floor press and go to the board presses in week 4,
% off board presses this totaly individual I can there is no set % i have a 430-445 bench or so in a double denim bench shirt and bench press 355 for 3 reps raw yet i can only do 405 for 2 reps off 2 boards while wearing a loose poly shirt, and my best off 3 board is 415 or so with a loose poly, but i can do 425x5 off 5 boards so this are all diffirent but in my opinion the board press is by far the #1 bench builder…
pull don abs is a momentum exerscice you should use a lot of weight it is not like a bodybuilding exerscice there is a lot of cheating the key is to get a big stretch in abdominals and then pull down and push your abs out and flex as hard as you can this wont fell like a normal ab movement.
pull throughs you want to let the low back and hammies stretch as far as you can and then slightly squat the hips up and explode brining the rope up with your hammies and low back, to target the low back dont squat and use a straight legs.
big martin
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Already answered.
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Also already answered. The only thing I’d add is that if you don’t have anything else to work with, try buying some bands from EFS and using them to allow you to do a natural GH raise off a bench or something. Also, GMs are great no matter how you do them.
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Although Big Martin knows a LOT more about this stuff than I do, I’ll say that if you don’t have the boards yet working with a rack for just lock-outs isn’t necessarily a bad way to go. I’ve nevr tried any sort of board or floor press yet, but with the rack lock-outs I was able to mix things up pretty well on my ME days and saw good strength gains.
As for the ab pulldowns, you’re going to need to remember a couple of things. When I do them, I make sure to (1) have something that I can hook my feet into/under to prevent myself from getting pulled around by the weight (a heavy DB stood on end works fine), and (2) keep my thighs perpendicular to the floor. This allows you to get the curling/uncurling motion that BM was talking about above, and he’s right: it’ll make all the difference.
One other thing I do with that exercise is to twist from one side to the other, alternating, as I do my reps. I find that this really helps the contraction on this particular movement.
HTH.
Thanks Guys
Big Martin,
Whats the difference in muscles targeted between a board presses and using a rack?
Also, How far are you supposed to go down on dimmels?
They are just 2 completly diffirent exerscices and as a beginer i can see how you think they would act as the same but they dont, board presses are much much easier on the elbows, joints, ect. in my opinion 3 weeks of rack work like that your are asking for some very very sore joints, every guy in my training group can only do rack work about once a month because it beats the shit out of you, I dont know why but board presses are much easier on the body and the carry over to the bench is much much better, louie says that rack work is a good strength indicator but has very very little carryover, i have found this to be very very true, we have a teenager in are group who benches about 445 or so in a denim but can do pin lock outs with almost 600 pounds yet can only do about 430 or so off 5 boards, so if was you i would do floor presses in the first phase until you can get boards,
dimel deadlifts stop just below the knee…big martin
I’ve done both pin presses and board presses, and what I found was that when I did board presses, my body stayed tight all the way through the movement, and on pins, when the bar hit the pins, I tended to relax a little bit, even though I tried to stay tight. I think it may have something to do with having to still maintain control of the bar while it’s on the boards, but on the pins, it’s not going anywhere, so you tend to relax a little bit.
Alright. I think I am gonna try and make some boards tonight and just find someone to spot me on the ones close to my max.
As for the Assistance exersizes I have zero clue how to do these. Can someone help me out here. I looked through Eight Keys and Big Bad Bench and still dont think I really get these?
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Lying Barbell Tricep Extension? Is this just like a skull crusher only with a stright barbell rather than an ez bar?
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Push Downs? No clue. Seems like something you do with a Bar from the descripton, but I cant seem to figure out how you push a bar down and get resistance when gravity will take it. Are these supposed to be on a cable machine?
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One Arm Press ? again, no idea. unless this is just a dumbell bench press or shoulder press?
Thanks for helping the slow kid out.
I’ll agree with the consensus that rack work will beat you up. It will. My forearms hurt along the outsides whenever I do them, and like those other lifters, I think that about once or maybe twice a month is a good frequency.
When I do them, though, I purposely totally relax at the bottom of the movement, then try to move the weight from a dead stop. I feel like this helps me to generate power at he bottom (or whatever point) of the movement, regardless of how well it transfers to an actual bench press. But see for yourself what works best for you.
As for the other questions:
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Basically, yes.
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These are done on a cable machine.
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Got me. I’d like to know the answer to this as well. 
Rack presses are really rough on the joints. If you are not ready for them they will let you know right away. The board presses are just a shortened bench press. They hit you a little different and that is the idea. Just go to Home Depot and have them cut the boards for you in the store. Pick up a box of screws and a couple sheets of sandpaper to smooth the edges. The boards just get screwed together and if you do it old school(without a electric screwdriver/drill), putting the board together will give you a heck of a wrist/grip workout. Check the Elite Fitness website for picture of exercies including one on doing the board press without training partners. I’ve included a link. It works for me.
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp?qid=13315&tid=51
id liek to chime in on the pin presses…
i recently finished months of sheiko benching, where i used rack pressing exclusively (mainly for safety)
i ALWAY set the pins at chest level so that i was starting with the bar slightly compressing my chest, most lifts were in teh range of 80 - 90% of my percieved 1RM for doubles or triples…
now at the completion of my last 4 week sheiko cycle, i tested and did a single (very easy btw but didnt feel like pushing it on the day) of 375lbs
by PR flat bench was previously 350lbs… so i beat that by 25lbs and from a dead stop.
BUT upon returning to the conventional flat bench the next week after deloading i struggled to get 315lbs of my chest. my groove was gone and the descent was shaky as hell, not to mention the pause on my chest where i nearly lost it completly. but just the week before i was doing 6 sets of triples with 315lbs with ease.
from this experience i decided that there isnt much carryover from the pins to the flat. its great for a change, now i plan to do it once every 5 or so workouts just for one week as a ME move, fingers crossed i still hit 375 (even though i guess it doesnt mean much :))
hope that helps
davidian
oh and to add to that nearly all my shoulder pain is gone since halting my rack work (i thought it was the result of years of heavy cleans/snatches) but now im thinking the rack did it!
Just to play devil’s advocate a little, my bench was stuck at 315. I switched to rack presses at chest level with a total deload at the bottom for three weeks. When I returned to bench pressing I felt a lot quicker out of the bottom position and over a four week period worked up to a 355 raw flat bench. I have never done board presses but I am interested in trying them to see what the carryover to benching will be.
Tuesday I went for a little jog and felt good, Nowhere near as sore as I was expecting to be.
This morning I went to Home Depot and 2x6 to make some boards out of…apparantly 2x6’s are not 2 inches tall, but 1.5 inches…so my two board is only 3 inches high.
November 5th
ME Bench
2 Board Press
95x4
135x4
155x3
175x3
185x3
205x3
215x3
225x3
235x1
245x1
255x1
265x1
275 (first set I did with a spot…and I needed it)
Barbell Extentions
I wasnt sure how far apart your hands were supposed to be whether you were supposed to keep your elbows parrallel to the bench or allow them to flare out???/
85x10
85x9
85x9
85x6
80x8
80x10
Pushdowns (screwed up the reps, was supposed to do 3x10, wound up aiming for 15)
80x8
65x15
65x15
And can someone fill me in on what a 1 arm press is, and how to do it. Is it just a one arm dumbell bench, or military ?
All in all I was out of there in less than an hour and besides getting some odd looks for having a pink band around my chest to strap the board to, it was a great day. I think I am hooked on this stuff.
November 6th, Hockey, other than not being able to touch my triceps with out crying like a little girl things feel good
Nov 7th DE Squat Day
Box Squat
bar x 3, 95 x 4
10 sets of 135 x 2
Pullthroughs
110x8
110x8
110x8
One Legged Squats (hands holding on too rack)
Lx10, rX10
Lx9, Rx8
Lx8, rx8
Lx8 Rx9
Dumbell Rows (Tate doesnt describe which grip to use, so I went with Palm facing bench)
R 70 x6, L 70 x6
R 85 X6, L 85 x6
R 95 x6, L 95 x 6
R 95 x6 L 95 x6
Barbell Shrugs
225 x 15
225 x10 (grip)
225x 15
So many Questions.
I Dont plan on ever competing in Powerlifting, or shelling out money for a suit. I have read the article on Elite Fitness about training westside raw, but what about if you want to be able to do Squats in a full ass to grass form rather than wide stance powerlifting style. The weight I was using was about 50% of my max full squat (my front squat and my back squat are both about the same…weak link in the chain is not the legs, something else. Basically anything heavier, my upper body falls forward and I cant recover). I have no idea what my max is using a powerlifting style, so when I did box squats today, it didnt seem to be much effort at all. I tried a couple different stances ranging from feet touching the posts of the rack to slightly in more, and while the wider one did seem a little noticeable in the ass, it wasnt any real exertion. I understand that its all about speed, but at times, the bar was flying off the back of my shoulders and landing on my neck at the top of the movement.
- Is there a different way I should be approaching Box Squats? And how wide should I go with my feet if I dont plan on using equipment or powerlifting squat form when not using a box.
- Should I up the weight off the box?
- I know that speed is the name of the game, but I am afraid I might not be stopping on the box for long enough. I seem to recall a three second rule for the 2 reps. Is there any problem with stopping on the box for longer and prolonging the time of the set?
- My Grip sucks probably from using too many wrists straps when deadlifting in the past. I know I should be bringing up my grip, but at the same time, I know I could do more on shrugs with some straps. Should I keep going with as much weight as my grip can handle and no more, or should i use the most weight I can shrug with straps and then add in extra grip work afterwards? I also have captain of crush grippers and some wrist rollers and what not which I used to use to build up my grip for hockey.
even though you never plan to compete in powerlifting and our a hockey player athlete i still reccomend you get yourself a cheap pair of single ply briefs because the reason you are box squating is to bring up your hips the briefs only cost about 20 bucks at inzer and they will hep you overload the hips and protect them…i have all my athletes get a pair…with the box squat as a athlete what i have them do is box squat ultra wide on dynamic day feet out to the rack as far as you can get them, and then we do a lot of ass to the grass and olympic squats on max effort day we use safety squat bar low box squats, ass to the grass good mroning squats and camberd squat bar low box squats these are all done with a close stance to a 10-12 inch box, this system allows the athlete to train the whole post-chain and legs, as a athlete i fell goodmornings are only needed to be done about once every 6 weeks or so i like squats on max effort day for athletes, …as soon as you dont think of westside as a powerlifting system but as a way to get stronger and more explosive for hockey the better you will get with the system…get the powerlifting squat shit out of your head and think of wide stance squats as a way to strengthen your hips glutes and low back, also as a athlete who is not using band or chains go ahead and raise your dynamic squat% to around 70% this will also help you because you are a beginer, and also stick with 12-15 sets for a while…hope this clears stuff up if you have anyother ???'s pm me…big martin
I didn’t have boards either, but what I did was took a stack of VHS tape and put a big rubber band around them, and then I just stuck them under my shirt. It worked just fine for me.
November 9th Hockey
Novemeber 10th ME Squat DE
Good Mornings (Medium stance Arched Back to Parallel)
bar x6
95x3
105x3
115x3
135x3
145x3
165x1
175x1
185x1
195x1
205x1
Reverse Hypers (I did these on a Donkey calf raise machine with my abs on the elbow pads and my hands holding onto the weight stack, I have to figure out a weigh to add weight to my legs.)
8, 8, 9
Dimmel Deadlifts
155 x 20
155x20
155x 20
Pulldown Abs (still no clue on how do get my abs to feel these, I hooked my feet underneath 35 lb dumbells, but nothing, my biggest problem is not getting pulled backwards not flexing my abs. It doesnt do anything for my abs)
80x10
80x10
80x5
Decline Crunch (with arms extended along line of torso)
10, 10
Straight Leg Raises
20, 15, 17