Westside Questions!

Training Bodybuilding
221

Nate Dogg, this is not a knock against you, but I am getting sick of people asking if Westside will “get me bigger”. If you truly have read and understood the articles by Dave, you should be able to see that you will most definitely get bigger. Two big reasons for this include: One, a shitload of work is done for the posterior chain; if you are looking to pack on some pounds, training the posterior chain is the way to go. Two, you can adapt your accessory work into whatever rep range you like.

Trust me, you will be getting enough stimulation to grow if you use the Westside template properly…just cover your bases with proper nutrition for growth, and you’ll be all set.

222

I’m not saying you won’t get bigger and stronger using Westside methods. As I know just about everyone who uses Westside packs on muscle size.

My issue revolves around the fact that what Westside recommends seems to be strictly for those who want to powerlift. For example, many of the exercises are not full ROM exercises. Many are done to work on certain weak areas, and they also help those who are using equipment during competition (bench shirts, squat suits, etc.). And they don’t actually use the main lifts in training, but focus on assistance exercises.

So although I believe the methods work, I would think that some changes would need to be made for someone wanting to use Westside but not specifically for powerlifting purposes (as Ike has also stated). Wouldn’t it be more beneficial to use compound lifts (squat, bench, chins, rows, deadlifts, presses, etc.) rather than limited-range exercises or only assistance exercises?

I don’t know if I’m making sense, as this is a topic that can be discussed at great length.

Sure, I could do the program as written. But when I look it over, I see where there could be some imbalances (plenty of bench/triceps work, but not as much emphasis on the quads, back, biceps or traps). I would think that for my purpose, I’d be better off using compound, multi-joint exercises instead of some of the exercises they recommend. Does that make sense?

I wouldn’t want to reinforce any imbalances and would want to make sure I’m getting the complete package. I know Westside gives plenty of focus on the posterior chain (which everyone can use more of), but they don’t really do much to target the quads and other bodyparts.

I was just looking into Westside as an alternative for a future strength and hypertrophy cycle. At this time, my main goal is strength followed by hypertrophy. I’m working hard now, but I want to keep my options open for the future to keep the gains coming.

Thanks for the feedback so far. This is definitely one of the best threads going!

223

Loop Fit- The down sets are usualy around 75%, so try that percent and go from there. But remember the higher your 1 rm the less reps at higher percents you will be able to get. Also Loop Fit rememember that max effort days are just that a “Max effort” and that can mean a max effort for a single a triple of even 5x5, if you look at any of the guys training logs on elite fitness you will see plenty of max effort days where they use 3’s and 5’s. It is good to change it up from time to time. I like to use the 3’s and 5’s when i am feeling beat up.
Good luck
Big Martin

224

Nate, if you want to put some emphasis on your quads, biceps or whatever-- then g’head. You can do whatever you want. Thats the cool part.

You don’t have to do the program as written. Stick to the template and put it together how you please.

225

Nate,
take the program for what it is a powerlifting program designed to get you strong.
with your new found strength at the end of the cycle you will be able to lift heavier and grow faster anyway.
periodisation, my friend! the bi’s can take a back seat as far as i’m concerned for the next 2 months, cause my squat and bench are the focus for now.
after that the 20 inch pipes will be on order… :wink:

226

I gotta couple questions. I shoulda asked Steve yesterday but I didn’t think of it.

First off: I’ve somewhat started doing Westside. Right now I’m just familiarizing myself with the techniques and the methods. However, although I’d be training Westside, I’d also have to find some way to do some sport-specific type lifts as well (for speedskating).

Basically, to train for something like speedskating, the basic premise is to train legs, and train legs with very high reps (one guy at our club does 1/4 squats, as gay as they are, for 100 reps a set with about 1,000 pounds, for 4-5 sets a workout; he went on to the Speedskating Nationals competition and medalled). So along with training Westside (ME days and DE days) I’d want to try to fit in one day for speedskating specific workouts (just a workout consisting of Oly stance squats or leg presses with the same rep and technique scheme as mentioned above).

Also, I’d be working on a limited schedule (training days anywhere from Monday-Friday). So for the first while I’d just do:

Monday: ME Squat
Wednesday: ME Bench
Friday: DE Squat
Monday: DE Bench
Wednesday: DE Squat
Friday: DE Bench

Then after a couple weeks or months I’d add in my sport-specific workout. The question is, where? I’m thinking probably after a DE or ME Bench day. Considering the workout is endurance-focused, I probably wouldn’t get very much DOMS which would hinder my Westside workouts. So heres what I’m thinking.

Monday: ME Squat
Wednesday: ME Bench
Thursday: Sport-specific
Friday: DE Squat
Monday: DE Bench
Tuesday: Sport-specific
Wednesday: ME Squat
Friday: ME Bench

Any comments or suggestions on this would be greatly appreciated. Or of theres a specific day I should do the Sport-specific workout after or before, then that would be appreciated as well.

227

MikeJ - I am going to have to leave this one to the pro’s. My advise is go to elitefitnesssystems.com and ask your question to Martin or Coach X. Good luck and good question. Big martin

228

big martin, that was actually me that posted that post under the handle mikej. The forums have been messed up and sometimes unless I pay special attention, they log me in as mikej. Just for clarification’s sake.

229

Chrismcl - definitely a question for Martin over at Elitefts

Nate - You mentioned you are worried about your back, quads, traps, and biceps… Please do yourself a favor and check out my training log in the Dog Pound. I hit all of these in some manner every week. My back and traps have blown up since starting Westside.
Usually quads aren’t hit to a great extent, and if that is truly a major concern (although I’m not sure why it would be…if your hammies are blowing up your legs will be getting bigger and stronger) you can implement some backwards sled dragging, lunges, or belt squat work in your sessions. The same principle applies for your arms; your biceps should be getting work from some sort of pulling, and perhaps a few sets of curls once a week, but your arms as a whole are gonna blow up anyway due to all of the tricep work.

You can debate it all you want, but I believe you are thinking too much. Just start the damn program and work hard if you wanna get strong, and the rest will fall into place if you’re eating enough.

230

You da man Steve! I appreciate the answers to my questions!

Keep hitting it hard! I’ll do the same!

Nate Dogg

231

To address Nate’s concerns a bit:

When I decided to start doing Westside, I figured on doing two separate cycles: one at maintenance cals (over the summer) to see how the program itself would affect my strength levels without my getting any larger, and then in the Fall (after I do a month or so of a cutting cycle to prepare myself for the Winter Bulk UP), another one while eating more to see how it works for me - I know how it works for other people, but like you, I’m an ecto type - for putting on size.

Having done this for several weeks now - and remember, this is on maintenance cals, not eating everything in sight - I’m a pound or two heavier on the scale with no change in BF. Not only that, but people are telling me that I look bigger through the chest and shoulders out of the gym (i.e., unpumped), and I can see definite changes in my legs. These are hamstring changes, of course, but they still make the whole leg look a lot better, which is something that I can use. Also, I haven’t lost any quad size, despite not doing any “direct” work for them at all. Ditto with my traps. Ditto for biceps.

I know where you’re coming from. You want the svelt athletic look, and you’re not one of these guys whose joints are made of titanium. You’d rather have more show and less go than the other way around. No problem; I’m the same way. But this stuff is, I think, a very worthwhile program to follow even if you’re into the aesthetic aspects more than anything else. You won’t lose your gains; rather, you’ll put size on in places that you wouldn’t otherwise, and it makes the whole package look better. The only thing that I’ve really added to the basic Westside program is some calf work. That’s it.

When I’m done with this I’m going to post some update pics and you’ll be able to see what I’m talking about. In the meantime, just take my word for it. You want to try this stuff.

232

Ok, here’s the question
Ive seen several recommendations here from “da big boys” to do your GPP and/or supplementary work BEFORE max effort sets.

sounds funny to me, as you need to get fersh there, and 10 sets of 10 reps pull-throughs is not my Idea of fresh.

whats up with that?
dave tate says in his articles that the most important part of the workout is that “main exersize” so why so you go last with it?

thanks

S-man.

233

I would think personal preference dictates the format of “your workout”

I know I would want to be “fresh” before attempting a ME movement or tweaking my form on speed day… After all since your workouts are suppose to be done in 30-45minutes, the little rest between sets to get it done in that time frame I feel would do more then doing the whole workout before the actual workout. Hope some of that makes sense.

234

I would rather do my main exercise first. One day I might do it in reverse order. I think if you are still new to Westside you would be better of doing the main exercise first because your form isnt going to be as rock solid as somebody whos been doing it a while.

235

i agree with golberg.

today i completed ME bench and i felt fresh going into the workout ( dose of PD helped)

then i did 5 x 15 close push ups,
4 x 8 lying external rotation ,5 X 10 leg raises and 3 x 12 pull thoughs (very light)

as you can c its nothing major but i was happy with the workout.

now i can attack the good mornings tomorrow with avengance.

236

Hey guys, the warm up I am talking about is very low intensity and serves 2 pourpouses, 1. gets you in shape, 2. brings up your work capacity.
10 sets of 10 wouldnt be a good idea but 3 sets of 20 would.
You guys seem to be a little confused and that is ok because I was confused the first time Jim wendler explained this to me. But after is started to incoperate a gpp warm up my work capacity went through the roof and I was in better shape wich made it easier to train.

FOR EXAMPLE HERE ARE SOME WARM UPS I TOOK FROM JIM WENDLERS TRAINING LOG AT ELITE FITNESS, I HOPE THESE HELP YOU BETTER UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT…

ME Squat/DL
Warmup

GHR - 3x6
Abs - 3x10
Back Raises - 3x10
Pushups - 3x10
Pullups - 3x6

DE Squat
Warmup

Sled dragging - 6 trips
GHR - 3x6
Weighted Abs - 3x10
Reverse Hypers - 3x10

ME Squat/DL
Warmup

Sled Dragging - 6 trips
Glute Ham Raise - 3x6
Reverse Hypers - 3x10
Bench Press - 3x15
Ab Work - 3x10

ME Bench
The weather here is beautiful and warm; I wish it would stay like this.

Warmup

Sled Dragging - 6 trips
GHR - 3x6
Abs - 3x10
Reverse Hypers - 3x10
DB Bench Press - 3x20
[The above was done in a circuit fashion]

I hope this cleared some things up keep working hard guys and good luck big martin.

237

Steve Coppola I have a question, I was hoping you could help me out with.

I Took a look at your training log and was looking at your workouts and saw one I thought I would try to help me bring up a weak point.

June 17th - Max Effort Squat/Deadlift
1)Manta Ray High Box Squats (16.75")

I decide to try these out today because I have been struggling about 3/4 the way up. Figured these couldnt hurt. So I did them off a 17 inch box, I figured with this high box I would be easy 50 to 100 pounds over my parrllel box max. NOT EVEN CLOSE!!! I only got a extra 20 pounds and that was a strain let me tell yea. Did this happen to you??? I really had a tuff time getting started and flexing off the high box. I used a medium to close stance. Just trying to get your thoughts on a few things.
How often do you use this as a max eff??
Thanks for you help…Big martin

238

Just started Westside tonight, Dave Tate’s intro workout, and I have a couple of questions. On Gm’s, how far are you supposed to stick your butt back? I’ve been doing Romanian dls for years, and my body just seems to fall into a groove of sticking my butt way out as I bend over. (There’s no one around, so that’s not an issue.) But should I be attempting to just bend straight forward without shifting my balance? I really felt this in my hamstrings as opposed to my lower back(That is, until I hit my max. Then my lower back REALLY felt it) Second: Dave said to use the 9th week as a time to test max’s for the next cycle. Do I try for them all on the same day like in a pl meet, or should I space them out over the week? Last: We need to convince Shugsy to get a Westside forum going!

239

Pual- Congrats on coming over to the darkside. About those goodmornings you want to stick your butt back as far as you can. Keep a slight bend in the knees and try to keep your back arched. Also It really dosent matter where you feel the gm’s at during the movement you will usually feel it in the hamstrings the day after. The reason you feel it more in the low back around max weights is because of pressure, but trust me the whole post-chain is being worked. Also remember to push the bar into the back to keep it from moving this will also trigger the hamstrings a litttle more. Also point your toes out slightly and get some Chuck Taylors.
I beleive you question about Max Out Day was awnswerd on elite fitness and if I remember correctly they said it was up to the lifters personal choice, but you may want to do a search on Elitefitnesssystems.com to make sure.
Good luck and I wish you some Pr’s real soon,
Welcome aboard Big Martin

240

Thanks, Martin. I already have some Chucks, I’ve been box squatting for a while now. You’re right, I definitely felt those GMs in my hammies today!!