Glute Spanker,
Goldberg and Big Martin have provided excellent advice and you would do well to heed it.
But(and trust me on this) if you are following Staley,you are not training Westside,but a programme that is based on Westside.The two are not the same.
Dave Tate has provided an easy to follow guide so you may want to try that.
Good luck,hope it works for you.
Beni:You are right, I am not training westside never said I was. Im asking about specific lifts and iseas which are similar. I am too small perhaps to sya this but there is other stuff beside westside, esp. since I am not a powerlifter, and lack the equipment for westside.
S-man
Glute, just as a side-note to all the expert advice above: Since I’ve started with Westside (i.e., all the DE stuff), I haven’t been particularly sore. So if you’re experiencing unbelievable soreness, maybe you are doing something wrong. Just a thought.
Also, about the acceleration issue: I just got my Westside tapes and have been watching them for the past few days. When they say that they lift “fast” and talk about “bar speed”, they don’t mean that they’re lifting it so hard that they throw the bar around. The reps that are on the tape for the DE workouts are fast, but not inhumanly fast. And they’re very damn strict in terms of groove and form. So if you’re tossing the bar around (and I was doing the same thing up till last week 
), stop. You don’t need to accelerate that much all the way through the movement. Get the bar going as fast as you can out of the hole, but then slow down a bit towards the top end of the movement. (Someone correct me if I’m wrong here…)
But the best thing? By a tape from Westside and watch it.
If hes coming up off the bench when hes pressing then he doesnt know how to bench. Push yourself through the bench and not the bar up. I have the same problem when I do dynamic bench. Now sometimes when im doing dynamic squat the bar does come up off my back on the second rep but this is usually only when im going extremely light, like in the last week before a meet.
Char, all I can tell you is that they probably aren’t intentionally “slowing down” towards the top end…explode all the way through to lockout.
Big Martin,
I took your advice and upped my DE day reps to 20 x 2 for box squats and 20 x 3 for benches. This worked great. I aslo cut the rest times down. What a workout! I feel this additional volume is good for me.
Just did the best squat i have managed in 3 years, its still nothing flash but thanks to good 'ol westside i am 25kg up on what i could move 3weeks ago.
First ME day for Box squats and i didn’t think i would get to my previous regular/conventional max squat weight due to the change in stance and form.
Go the box squats. i genuinely surprised myself in about 3 of my last 1 rep sets each one still progressively heavier, and coming strong out of the bottom.
I’m a happy boy 
Steve, you really think so? Not to question your advice or anything (you the powerliftin’ man), but have you seen the tapes? It looks to me like those guys could throw the bar if they wanted, but it’s not coming up off their hands or backs… Is that the way you guys train, having the weights come off?
Greekdawg- your r right it is a hell of a work out. I spoke to Jim Wendler in MAy and we talked about my conditiong, he felt my conditioning was holding me back. so we started a 20x2 cycle on dynamic squat day with the saftey squat bar. but if i was in my first year of training i would have done 20x2 for 3 weeks and then cycled in a 10x2 and a 8x2 week for a 5 week cycle. Right now I am on a 3 week cycle much like the one in the 8 keys and am having unbelivable succsses with it. week 1 straight weight cycling percents for 15 sets 40%x5x2-55%x5x2-70%X5x2, week 2 heavy band tension 40% with a green and a purple band for 8x2 then 2 singles with 60% plus bands, week 3- safety squat bar low box with light band at 40% for 20x2 with 15 seconds rest. I may beging to do the safety squat 20x2 for 2 week cylces for a 4 week cycle, to help bring up my conditiong, still thinking on it.
hi all.
how much of an issue is it when box squatting to get a dead straight bar path. i currently train on my own ~ i know get some partners but no one has the same goals as me in my gym. i’m not too sure how straight the bar is travelling so i would appreciate some info on how to recocnise this when performing the lift.
another q is what diet do most of you guys follow (goldberg, steve, big martin and beni)
i’v followed berardi as this has kept me in good shape. but i was just wondering if i should just increase every macro??? any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated.
Ally
BigMartin/goldie/Coppola et all,
Had a ME squat day. Did GMs as usual. As I approach my 1 rep max, my lower back feels like it is literally going to give out as I try to maintain a good arch hitting paralell. I feel all of the stress on my lower back as well.
I think my lower back is clearly a weak link.
Because of this it also scares me to go up in weight. I need to start addressing this ASAP.
What suggestions do you have to bring up the lower back? exercises?
Thanks in advance.
ANother questions for the big boys…
to you take creatine? what supps do you take for power?
thanks
S-man
Ally- Bar path is difficult to examine without watching u squat. I say this because some great squaters lean forward and almost gm the weight up like Steve Goggins who has 1100 plus squat. Some like Louie Simmons and Chuck Vogepole have a perfect arch and bar path so it is a matter of personal style, body type, and technique. I myself am a forward leaner I have a big squaters belly and strong low back so I like to sit into my stomach and arch off of it.But here is a trick i learned from the man Dave Tate himself while he was examining my squat technique at his seminar. Sometimes my head falls when i squat and it makes me lean to far over and i miss the squat. Next time you squat wear a baseball hat and turn it backwards so the bill of the cap is pressed tightly against your traps and upper back. this will keep your head in perfect position and force you to lead with the hips. then set up under the bar and squat and do not let the bill leave your traps, as this will keep your head in perfect position and force the bar to take the shortest path possibile.
Diet- LoL I know no such word, I eat a lot of everything, Today so far i Have eat- Breakfat 2 hardies breakfast sandwiches 2 servings of tater tots, lots of coffe, then for luch i had a stouffers skillet sensations chicken alfredo it feeds a faimily of four I ate the whole thing, post traing had a serving of cell-tech, then 2 grow bars, for dinner ill probally go to a mexican restaraunt or a china buffet, then before bed ill make a special protien shake with 2 scoops of protien, 2 bowls of ice cream, 20 ounces milk, 2 bannanas, and some frozen berries thrown in.
Greek Dawg- I would say keep doing what your r doing cause a strain is the most important thing on max effort day (it will take time).Your arch in a max gm is very tuff to keep and when you get up to max weights try to keep the form tight but dont worry about it that much,just get the damn weight up. also you may need to work on your hamstring felxibility, this was my lil brothers problem and it made it damn hard for him to keep his arch tight on gms. But here are tips to help with the lower back. A. Use the saftey squat bar and camberd bar for low box squats, these kill the lower back because they are always trying to dump your forward. B. pull througs or reverse hyper if you have one, if you dont have reverse hyper hit the pull throughs for a couple work outs of 10 sets of 10 a week as this will bring the lower back up fast. C. get your self a med ball about 30-40 pounds go in your back yard act like your going to do a pull through and on your way up throw it over your head, go pick it up again and do it non stop for 10 minutes, this worked wonders for me. D. Bring up your abs, lots of pull down abs for sets of 10-50 or do it for time, pick a song on the radio do pull down abs till the song is over.aslo put on weight the bigger the belly you have the easier it is to sit into.
GLute Spanker - the only supplements i take are creatine, multivitamin, and some protien. I started taking celltech last january because when i went to Dave Tates seminar he said it was helping him keep his weight up. So i gave it a shot, liked it and have kept using it.
Char, accelerating the bar to lockout does not necessitate leaving the bench or throwing the bar. I can see how it looks as if they are “slowing down”, but I think it’s more a case of having complete control of the bar at all points in the range of motion. Basically, they are so friggin’ strong that they can start and stop that bar on a dime. Also, if you are properly driving your traps/neck/shoulders into the bench, keeping your lats tight, and squeezing the bar as hard as you can (along with all of the other form components of a good bench), it should be possible to fully accelerate the bar to lockout without throwing it or coming off of the bench.
I don’t consider myself a big boy yet, but for diet … I was doing the clean thing to look decent over the 4th and keep the BF down … but now I simply have been eating whatever. Yes, I eat clean, but I’ll eat a pizza if I want now.
Supplements: surge, multivitamin pack, and creatine every other 4 weeks.
Greek, when you get up to your 1 rm weight – especially when doing GMs – the load will simply feel too heavy, which in times it is. Don’t think you’ll knock your 1rm everytime. A lot of things can challenge your 1rm.
You’ll get it eventually, but when I first started … I thought the heavy weights on good mornings were simply impossible. After good and heavy assistant work, and time … I’ve busted threw my (varied stance) GM pr’s 4-5 times now.
Landon,
You stated briefly about “good and heavy assistance work” for the GMs…curious as to what exercises you’re speaking of?
Greek,
I’m not going to list every supplemental exercise I’ve done, but you are probably failing the heavy weights due to a lot of things, but what worked the best for me was to bring up my lower back even more. My lower back was pretty strong, but since I’ve been training it more, my GM’s have went up due to the direct effect of training my lower back I believe.
Lower back I’ll typically do 1-2 in every DE/ME squat/dl workout.
Heavy reverse hypers
-I ALWAYS do reverse hypers on every squat/dl day
Heavy Pull throughs
Heavy Hyperextensions (I do mine on a glute ham raise bench, not one of those angled contraptions)
Those are the exercises that I find the best results from. I would not neglect pull throughs as from talking to others as well, it just rips your lower back apart to the point that it’s hard to stand up straight.
Obviously if your hams are slacking, as well as your glutes … just keep on hitting them with assistant stuff. Just don’t over do it.
Landon
Start bringing up your GPP too greek. I’ve been adding more mini workouts within the last 2 months slowly in my current workout schedule, and I find that since I’ve been adding them in slowly, I’m able to hand more volume during my main workouts.
When I first started westside, I assumed my work capacity was good and I added like 2 extra workouts in right off the bat, and I just couldn’t do it. I was doing too much. So I layed off of them, and then started back up, and now I understand why experienced people say add extra workouts in slowly.
Landon