Wendler's 5/3/1 Program - Part 5

Training Powerlifting
701

What do you think?

I have run boring but big for 13+ months straight. I want to keep my mass and start getting stronger at/around 200 lbs. I have them broken up like this because it allows me to recover as I feel necessary. Leg days take a day or two to recover from because of all the volume, and the fact that I am using a lot more than 50% of my 1rm. I don’t do deload weeks. I just go based on how sore I am.

Days 2 and 5 are meant to be short, and take little to no effort like a bigger compound lift would require. Some of my upper body days have taken 2 hours to complete just because of how beat up I get during the lift. I know I can always come back to BBB in the future too, but next time I want to be much stronger so that I can make better use of the assistance. How sick would it be to do a deadlift 5x10 with 275 instead of 225?

Day 1
Press
Dips
Chins

Day 2 (Assistance work for maintenance)
Curl
Face pull
Rear Lateral Raise

Day 3
Deadlift
Goodmorning
Leg Raise

Day 4
Bench Press
Dumbbell Bench Press
Kroc Row

Day 5 (Assistance work for maintenance)
(not sure what to do for triceps I was thinking close grip bench press, Pushdowns, or skull crushers)
Chest supported row
Shrug

Day 6
Squat
Leg Press
Leg Curl

702

[quote]trivium wrote:
What do you think?

I have run boring but big for 13+ months straight. I want to keep my mass and start getting stronger at/around 200 lbs. I have them broken up like this because it allows me to recover as I feel necessary. Leg days take a day or two to recover from because of all the volume, and the fact that I am using a lot more than 50% of my 1rm. I don’t do deload weeks. I just go based on how sore I am.

Days 2 and 5 are meant to be short, and take little to no effort like a bigger compound lift would require. Some of my upper body days have taken 2 hours to complete just because of how beat up I get during the lift. I know I can always come back to BBB in the future too, but next time I want to be much stronger so that I can make better use of the assistance. How sick would it be to do a deadlift 5x10 with 275 instead of 225?

Day 1
Press
Dips
Chins

Day 2 (Assistance work for maintenance)
Curl
Face pull
Rear Lateral Raise

Day 3
Deadlift
Goodmorning
Leg Raise

Day 4
Bench Press
Dumbbell Bench Press
Kroc Row

Day 5 (Assistance work for maintenance)
(not sure what to do for triceps I was thinking close grip bench press, Pushdowns, or skull crushers)
Chest supported row
Shrug

Day 6
Squat
Leg Press
Leg Curl[/quote]

I wouldn’t suggest making extra days just for assistance, days 1 and 2 can all be done in the gym in an hour if you are lifting efficiently. It will also shave time off at the gym so you can sustain a full life. You shouldn’t be doing chest on day 4 then going to the gym again on day 5 to do more tricep work, you should do it in the same training session. I think you would be better off doing a four day a week version.

703

CLARIFICATION PLEASE.

On the BBB three month challenge, I do not understand the 50 60 70%.

Every new cycle (three weeks+deload), we up the training max weight by 10lbs.
So lets say 1st month 315 training max, 2nd 325, 3rd 335.

For BBB do I use 70% of 335 or 315?

704

[quote]trivium wrote:
What do you think?

I have run boring but big for 13+ months straight. I want to keep my mass and start getting stronger at/around 200 lbs. I have them broken up like this because it allows me to recover as I feel necessary. Leg days take a day or two to recover from because of all the volume, and the fact that I am using a lot more than 50% of my 1rm. I don’t do deload weeks. I just go based on how sore I am.

Days 2 and 5 are meant to be short, and take little to no effort like a bigger compound lift would require. Some of my upper body days have taken 2 hours to complete just because of how beat up I get during the lift. I know I can always come back to BBB in the future too, but next time I want to be much stronger so that I can make better use of the assistance. How sick would it be to do a deadlift 5x10 with 275 instead of 225?

Day 1
Press
Dips
Chins

Day 2 (Assistance work for maintenance)
Curl
Face pull
Rear Lateral Raise

Day 3
Deadlift
Goodmorning
Leg Raise

Day 4
Bench Press
Dumbbell Bench Press
Kroc Row

Day 5 (Assistance work for maintenance)
(not sure what to do for triceps I was thinking close grip bench press, Pushdowns, or skull crushers)
Chest supported row
Shrug

Day 6
Squat
Leg Press
Leg Curl[/quote]

All the exercises on Days 2 and 5 should just be done between Benching and Pressing sets, with the heavier ones (shrugs and rows) supersetted with upper body pushing assistance. I’m doing pretty much all of those exercises listed in this manner - it’s working fine so far.

705

[quote]mg3 wrote:
CLARIFICATION PLEASE.

On the BBB three month challenge, I do not understand the 50 60 70%.

Every new cycle (three weeks+deload), we up the training max weight by 10lbs.
So lets say 1st month 315 training max, 2nd 325, 3rd 335.

For BBB do I use 70% of 335 or 315?[/quote]

I couldn’t find it either, but i’ve just been making the calculations off of the new training max

706

[quote]mwiersma wrote:

[quote]mg3 wrote:
CLARIFICATION PLEASE.

On the BBB three month challenge, I do not understand the 50 60 70%.

Every new cycle (three weeks+deload), we up the training max weight by 10lbs.
So lets say 1st month 315 training max, 2nd 325, 3rd 335.

For BBB do I use 70% of 335 or 315?[/quote]

I couldn’t find it either, but i’ve just been making the calculations off of the new training max[/quote]

Yeah. BBB accessory percentages should just be based off the training max of the current cycle.

707

[quote]panzerfaust wrote:

[quote]mwiersma wrote:

I couldn’t find it either, but i’ve just been making the calculations off of the new training max[/quote]

Yeah. BBB accessory percentages should just be based off the training max of the current cycle.[/quote]

  1. Do you guys find that difficult to accomplish due to the big jumps in weight from one percentage to another?

  2. And do you continue that trend into the next 3 month cycles?
    Because then it would look like this:

315: 160 50%
325: 195 60%
335: 235 70%

345: 170 50%
355: 215 60%
365: 255 70%

708

[quote]mg3 wrote:

[quote]panzerfaust wrote:

[quote]mwiersma wrote:

I couldn’t find it either, but i’ve just been making the calculations off of the new training max[/quote]

Yeah. BBB accessory percentages should just be based off the training max of the current cycle.[/quote]

  1. Do you guys find that difficult to accomplish due to the big jumps in weight from one percentage to another?

  2. And do you continue that trend into the next 3 month cycles?
    Because then it would look like this:

315: 160 50%
325: 195 60%
335: 235 70%

345: 170 50%
355: 215 60%
365: 255 70%[/quote]

It is supposed to be all based on whatever your original training max from month 1 was.

709

[quote]panzerfaust wrote:

[quote]trivium wrote:
What do you think?

I have run boring but big for 13+ months straight. I want to keep my mass and start getting stronger at/around 200 lbs. I have them broken up like this because it allows me to recover as I feel necessary. Leg days take a day or two to recover from because of all the volume, and the fact that I am using a lot more than 50% of my 1rm. I don’t do deload weeks. I just go based on how sore I am.

Days 2 and 5 are meant to be short, and take little to no effort like a bigger compound lift would require. Some of my upper body days have taken 2 hours to complete just because of how beat up I get during the lift. I know I can always come back to BBB in the future too, but next time I want to be much stronger so that I can make better use of the assistance. How sick would it be to do a deadlift 5x10 with 275 instead of 225?

Day 1
Press
Dips
Chins

Day 2 (Assistance work for maintenance)
Curl
Face pull
Rear Lateral Raise

Day 3
Deadlift
Goodmorning
Leg Raise

Day 4
Bench Press
Dumbbell Bench Press
Kroc Row

Day 5 (Assistance work for maintenance)
(not sure what to do for triceps I was thinking close grip bench press, Pushdowns, or skull crushers)
Chest supported row
Shrug

Day 6
Squat
Leg Press
Leg Curl[/quote]

All the exercises on Days 2 and 5 should just be done between Benching and Pressing sets, with the heavier ones (shrugs and rows) supersetted with upper body pushing assistance. I’m doing pretty much all of those exercises listed in this manner - it’s working fine so far.
[/quote]

Soreness has nothing to do with you deloading or not. You need to deload. Doesn’t matter if your 20 yrs old or 50. It will make you stronger and keep your joints and CNS running smooth. I wish I would have done it my whole life.

710

[quote]trivium wrote:

[quote]mg3 wrote:

[quote]panzerfaust wrote:

[quote]mwiersma wrote:

I couldn’t find it either, but i’ve just been making the calculations off of the new training max[/quote]

Yeah. BBB accessory percentages should just be based off the training max of the current cycle.[/quote]

  1. Do you guys find that difficult to accomplish due to the big jumps in weight from one percentage to another?

  2. And do you continue that trend into the next 3 month cycles?
    Because then it would look like this:

315: 160 50%
325: 195 60%
335: 235 70%

345: 170 50%
355: 215 60%
365: 255 70%[/quote]

It is supposed to be all based on whatever your original training max from month 1 was.[/quote]
I don’t think that’s correct. He says you still increase your training max 5-10 pounds each cycle and each percentage is based off the current training max. In the end it only amounts to 7 pounds for squat/deadlift and 3.5 for bench/press, so it’s not a big deal since it’s technically assistance work, but if you want to do the challenge as written, then base it off the current training max.

Edit: it’s actually a difference of 14 pounds and 7 pounds for lower/upper, respectively. Forgot that there are two weight increases and not just one.

711

[quote]OmniStyx wrote:

[quote]trivium wrote:

[quote]mg3 wrote:

[quote]panzerfaust wrote:

[quote]mwiersma wrote:

I couldn’t find it either, but i’ve just been making the calculations off of the new training max[/quote]

Yeah. BBB accessory percentages should just be based off the training max of the current cycle.[/quote]

  1. Do you guys find that difficult to accomplish due to the big jumps in weight from one percentage to another?

  2. And do you continue that trend into the next 3 month cycles?
    Because then it would look like this:

315: 160 50%
325: 195 60%
335: 235 70%

345: 170 50%
355: 215 60%
365: 255 70%[/quote]

It is supposed to be all based on whatever your original training max from month 1 was.[/quote]
I don’t think that’s correct. He says you still increase your training max 5-10 pounds each cycle and each percentage is based off the current training max. In the end it only amounts to 7 pounds for squat/deadlift and 3.5 for bench/press, so it’s not a big deal since it’s technically assistance work, but if you want to do the challenge as written, then base it off the current training max.[/quote]

Yeah, I could be wrong. That is what I thought I remembered.

I just want to say that this bight be one of the most helpful articles that I have ever read on T-Nation. No bullshit, no opinions, no bitching, gives you a diet, and a program that will give you results. It is all in one article. I wish they would do a lot more of these types of articles, and make up a program database from each author, or a diet database with shopping lists and how to’s.

http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_boring_but_big_3month_challenge

712

[quote]mg3 wrote:
CLARIFICATION PLEASE.

On the BBB three month challenge, I do not understand the 50 60 70%.

Every new cycle (three weeks+deload), we up the training max weight by 10lbs.
So lets say 1st month 315 training max, 2nd 325, 3rd 335.

For BBB do I use 70% of 335 or 315?[/quote]
It’s 70% of 335; in “Beyond 5/3/1” Jim explained it.

713

[quote]fabiop wrote:

[quote]electricred wrote:
Is 531 adjustable to have more frequent weight increases than monthly for a beginner? I like the look of the program and the amount of information available, but since I’m a beginner coming from six months of Starting Strength, 531 is probably too advanced for me when I could make more frequent weight increases with a weekly program or something. If 531 can be adjusted I’d prefer that over other weekly programs I’ve seen.[/quote]
Buy the “Beyond 5/3/1” book and do the 5’s progression + joker sets (p.51); this way you will not need more frequent weight increase, as you’ll be…well, read the book, and find it out by yourself :wink: ![/quote]
Thanks. Can I get all the information I need from Beyond 531, or does the original 531 book need to be read first? I’ll probably end up with both eventually but I’ll grab one soon, one later.

714

[quote]electricred wrote:

[quote]fabiop wrote:

[quote]electricred wrote:
Is 531 adjustable to have more frequent weight increases than monthly for a beginner? I like the look of the program and the amount of information available, but since I’m a beginner coming from six months of Starting Strength, 531 is probably too advanced for me when I could make more frequent weight increases with a weekly program or something. If 531 can be adjusted I’d prefer that over other weekly programs I’ve seen.[/quote]
Buy the “Beyond 5/3/1” book and do the 5’s progression + joker sets (p.51); this way you will not need more frequent weight increase, as you’ll be…well, read the book, and find it out by yourself :wink: ![/quote]
Thanks. Can I get all the information I need from Beyond 531, or does the original 531 book need to be read first? I’ll probably end up with both eventually but I’ll grab one soon, one later.[/quote]

If you need to buy one initially, just get Beyond 531. It’s the most comprehensive by a long shot.

715

[quote]panzerfaust wrote:

[quote]electricred wrote:

[quote]fabiop wrote:

[quote]electricred wrote:
Is 531 adjustable to have more frequent weight increases than monthly for a beginner? I like the look of the program and the amount of information available, but since I’m a beginner coming from six months of Starting Strength, 531 is probably too advanced for me when I could make more frequent weight increases with a weekly program or something. If 531 can be adjusted I’d prefer that over other weekly programs I’ve seen.[/quote]
Buy the “Beyond 5/3/1” book and do the 5’s progression + joker sets (p.51); this way you will not need more frequent weight increase, as you’ll be…well, read the book, and find it out by yourself :wink: ![/quote]
Thanks. Can I get all the information I need from Beyond 531, or does the original 531 book need to be read first? I’ll probably end up with both eventually but I’ll grab one soon, one later.[/quote]

If you need to buy one initially, just get Beyond 531. It’s the most comprehensive by a long shot.[/quote]
QFT; also, you can pretty much figure out the essential of 5/3/1 even from reading only the first article published here (called something like “Build pure/inadulterate strength” IIRC).

716

During this upcoming football season I was planning on lifting twice a week. I was planning on doing something like this.

Wednesday:

Squat 5/3/1
Bench 5/3/1
Goodmorning 3x5
Barbell row 3x8

Sunday:

Deadlift 5/3/1
Military press 5/3/1
GHR 3x12
CGPB 3x8
Pull Ups 4xMax reps

Do you guys think this would be effective for small gains or just maintaining strength. I plan to eat as much possible to maintain my weight. Football is more of something to do. I’m way more passionate about powerlifting and training for the homeschool state meet in April.

717

[quote]Rawteen wrote:
During this upcoming football season I was planning on lifting twice a week. I was planning on doing something like this.

Wednesday:

Squat 5/3/1
Bench 5/3/1
Goodmorning 3x5
Barbell row 3x8

Sunday:

Deadlift 5/3/1
Military press 5/3/1
GHR 3x12
CGPB 3x8
Pull Ups 4xMax reps

Do you guys think this would be effective for small gains or just maintaining strength. I plan to eat as much possible to maintain my weight. Football is more of something to do. I’m way more passionate about powerlifting and training for the homeschool state meet in April.
[/quote]

I bet a lot of people will disagree with me here, so take this as you will: If lifting is your true passion, put your energy into that. Plan your football stuff around your powerlifting training instead of the other way around. If that makes you a slightly worse football player, oh well. Not to mention the carry over to football you get from lifting heavy anyways.

On the other side of the coin, this is likely the only time you will ever get to put on the pads, if you don’t feel like pursuing college or semi-pro ball. So, decide which is more important, powerlifting progress or the football.

718

[quote]mkral55 wrote:

[quote]Rawteen wrote:
During this upcoming football season I was planning on lifting twice a week. I was planning on doing something like this.

Wednesday:

Squat 5/3/1
Bench 5/3/1
Goodmorning 3x5
Barbell row 3x8

Sunday:

Deadlift 5/3/1
Military press 5/3/1
GHR 3x12
CGPB 3x8
Pull Ups 4xMax reps

Do you guys think this would be effective for small gains or just maintaining strength. I plan to eat as much possible to maintain my weight. Football is more of something to do. I’m way more passionate about powerlifting and training for the homeschool state meet in April.
[/quote]

I bet a lot of people will disagree with me here, so take this as you will: If lifting is your true passion, put your energy into that. Plan your football stuff around your powerlifting training instead of the other way around. If that makes you a slightly worse football player, oh well. Not to mention the carry over to football you get from lifting heavy anyways.

On the other side of the coin, this is likely the only time you will ever get to put on the pads, if you don’t feel like pursuing college or semi-pro ball. So, decide which is more important, powerlifting progress or the football. [/quote]

I bet a lot of people will disagree with me here, so take this as you will: Focus on school, because you are probably not going to be a professional football player, or professional powerlifter.

Everything else at this point in time should be an afterthought unless your grades are already 3.5 or above. School is your job right now, and lifting is a privilege that you must earn when everything else is squared away. If you put lifting ahead of your schoolwork, or your family, you fail to GROK what being a man is about. You don’t want to learn this lesson the hard way.

That being said, I see nothing wrong with that split, except that it has almost no arm or trap work. If that doesn’t bother you, which for some guys it doesn’t, then I wouldn’t hesitate to adopt that split if you are strapped for time. I would replace the CGBP with dips though. That is just personal preference, as I bench with kind of a closer grip anyway.

Anything is better than nothing. I used to do nothing, and one year I came back so weak that I couldn’t even get 135. (I got 185 for 5 at the start of the season.) This split is light years ahead of anything that I did in high school. Actually I don’t think 5/3/1 even existed in 2005 to early 2009. My how the interwebs has changed in 8 years. Now you have access to all kinds of quality info.

Best of luck, and keep us updated!

719

Hi guys, just needing some clarification on joker sets:
5x day, you work up to x weight for 5+ reps, then do sets of 5 adding 10% each time?

65kg x5
75kg x5
100kg x5+

then
110kg x5
121kg x5
132kg x5

is this it?

Loving Beyond 5/3/1 btw, really shouldn’t have moved away from this program. the combination of always aiming for pr’s and infinitely flexible assistance work is brillaint

720

Jim says to make 5-10% jumps. Once you know you can’t get all the required reps anymore, you can still add 5-10% and do some singles if you feel like it. I’ve been using them on my squat and its blown up lately. Started them with my bench a couple of sessions ago too and its moving up. Although I can’t completely credit the joker sets…I’m in my second 3 day a week cycle and think thats probably the biggest reason I’m getting stronger again. Doing each lift every 9-10 days versus 7 has really improved my recovery.

If anyone isnt making the best gains on 531 anymore, I would challenge you to try the 3 day template. Its not the end of the world if you don’t do all 4 lifts in one week.