This might be due to the fact that I am still on the first cycle, 3rd week, but this program just does not feel like enough intensity. Currently:
Mon:
OH Press 5/3/1 followed by 5x10 @ 50%
Lat Pull downs and BB Curls (Superset, both 5x10)
Tues:
Deadlift 5/3/1 followed by 5x10 @ 50%
Leg Curls and Hanging Leg Raise (Superset, both 5x10)
Wed:
Hill Sprints
Thurs:
Bench Press 5/3/1 followed by 5x10 @ 50%
Dips and DB Rows (Superset, both 5x10)
Fri:
Back Squat 5/3/1 followed by 5x10 @ 50%
Good Mornings and Weighted Sit Ups (Superset, both 5x10)
Sat:
Hill Sprints
Sun:
Off Day
For rests, I’m doing 2-3 min between working sets, and 1 min between the 5x10 sets.
I’m using 90% of my real 1RM (like I’m supposed to) and it’s an accurate 1RM. Is the lack of “strain” just because it’s the first cycle? I’d presume it will get harder in the upcoming cycles. I’m going to skip the first deload and go into Cycle 2 next week.
As far as diet (5’9", ~150 lbs, 12% BF) I’m at 2650 calories per day (55% C, 25% P, 20% F), it’s been pretty spot on for the past 3 weeks. Any feedback / suggestions would help.
I had the same doubts when I first started 5/3/1 almost two years ago. Just like you I started out with the BBB assistance. Instead of going off of a true 1RM I low balled it and started really light (suggested in the book) but I based my BBB sets off of 60% of my TM (original 5/3/1 and second addition suggested BBB done with 50-60% while beyond says 50%). Trust me if you’re going balls out on the “or more reps” set and adding 5lbs to UB and 10lbs to LB every 4 weeks it WILL catch up to you.
You mentioned that you’re skipping the deload. Are you on the 4 week rotation that was in the original 5/3/1 or the 7 week rotation from “Beyond 5/3/1”? I don’t even think I could skip a deload week now that I’m on the 7 week rotation. By weeks 5-6 I’m pretty run down and have to dig deep to get good sessions in. I view it as a mental challenge I have to face.
But yeah man I’ve been on the program for almost two years now and I felt the same way for about 2-3 months but I stayed the course and IT WILL catch up to you.
[quote]finteal wrote:
I had the same doubts when I first started 5/3/1 almost two years ago. Just like you I started out with the BBB assistance. Instead of going off of a true 1RM I low balled it and started really light (suggested in the book) but I based my BBB sets off of 60% of my TM (original 5/3/1 and second addition suggested BBB done with 50-60% while beyond says 50%). Trust me if you’re going balls out on the “or more reps” set and adding 5lbs to UB and 10lbs to LB every 4 weeks it WILL catch up to you.
You mentioned that you’re skipping the deload. Are you on the 4 week rotation that was in the original 5/3/1 or the 7 week rotation from “Beyond 5/3/1”? I don’t even think I could skip a deload week now that I’m on the 7 week rotation. By weeks 5-6 I’m pretty run down and have to dig deep to get good sessions in. I view it as a mental challenge I have to face.
But yeah man I’ve been on the program for almost two years now and I felt the same way for about 2-3 months but I stayed the course and IT WILL catch up to you.[/quote]
I bought the 2nd Edition book and went with the 4 week rotation (3 weeks on with 1 deload) but with it being my first month, I am going to skip the deload (although not recommended). I know how my body feels when it needs a deload, and I’m not near that.
I guess I just needed the reassurance that it will pick up. I know with picking a TM that’s 90% of your 1RM, then it will take a little time to catch up. Next week I’m upping my UB work by 5lbs and my LB work by 10 lbs and I’ll see how it feels. Thanks man.
Yeah dude get the “Beyond 5/3/1” book. It has WAY more information than the original and also recommends 7 week cycles. This looks like what you’re headed for anyway.
[quote]finteal wrote:
Yeah dude get the “Beyond 5/3/1” book. It has WAY more information than the original and also recommends 7 week cycles. This looks like what you’re headed for anyway.
But yeah get the Beyond book. Tons more information[/quote]
I’ll snag the new book. Exactly where I was headed.
[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
I love how people bitch but not follow the program. Please follow the program. It works for a reason.[/quote]
I’ve followed it to a T thus far. And if your new book recommends what I was going to do anyways, then how would I not be following the program? Just my thought.
If you are missing the “intensity” then you can always add in Joker Sets when you’re feeling good, as outlined in Beyond 5/3/1. The book doesn’t “recommend” 7 week cycles, it lists it as an alternative to the 4 week cycle. Play around and see what works.
[quote]DAVE101 wrote:
If you are missing the “intensity” then you can always add in Joker Sets when you’re feeling good, as outlined in Beyond 5/3/1. The book doesn’t “recommend” 7 week cycles, it lists it as an alternative to the 4 week cycle. Play around and see what works.[/quote]
You’re right I picked the wrong word. The 7 week cycled is proposed as an alternative to the 4 week cycle. Good catch.
My goals are to increase strength and size, nothing too specific. Just up my big lift numbers and add some mass.[/quote]
I’ll be the first one to say that I’m not a great lifter or super strong but I have used 5/3/1 and Jim’s advice over the past two years to get WAY stronger.
Personally when doing BBB I’ve never went above 60%. If I’m doing the same exercise I almost always just use 60% and if I’m varying it any with the use of other bars (swiss bar, SS bar, box squat, hex bar etc) I just get it in that 50-60% window.
First off before you start changing up the BBB from it’s base format get a copy of Beyond 5/3/1 and check out the different ways to run it.
Second realize that the BBB is still “assistance” work. The main sets along with eating a shitload of good food and getting enough sleep is what is going to make you big and strong.
I don’t know about you but for me being able to set PRs on my last work set is my primary goal. Varying the assistance work, eating, sleeping, rehab/prehab etc are just ways to get to that goal and becoming big and strong are side effects of trying to reach that goal.
This is what my current training looks like btw. I’ll probably run this type of assistance work for 1-2 more 7 week cycles and then I’ll switch to FSL:
Monday Squats
5/3/1 sets
extra work (this is done by feel but usually looks like)
3x5 week none, 3x3 week work up 1-2 3 rep joker sets, 5/3/1 work up 1-2 singles
assistance work
5 rounds of the following circuit
neck flexion with EliteFTS neck harness 10-15 reps
Safety bar squats 10 reps at 50-60% of TM
neck extension hang head off of bench do sit up type movement wiht 35lb plate 10-15 reps
ab wheel 10-15 reps
Tuesday Bench
5/3/1 sets
extra work (this is done by feel but usually looks like)
3x5 week repeat first set max reps, 3x3 1-2 3 rep joker sets slingshot TM x Max reps, 5/3/1 1-2 singles slingshot TM + 10% x max reps
assistance work
5 rounds of Swiss barbell bench press 10 reps at 50-60% supersetted with 10 reps chin ups or barbell rows
neck/trap work
5 rounds
neck flexion with EliteFTS neck harness 10-15 reps
kirk karwoski rows 10-15 reps
neck extension hang head off of bench do sit up type movement with 35lb plate 10-15 reps
ab wheel 10-15 reps
One armed dumbbell rows done with Meadows handle from EliteFTS
Thursday Deadlifts
5/3/1 sets
extra work (this is done by feel but usually looks like)
3x5 week none, 3x3 week work up 1-2 3 rep joker sets, 5/3/1 work up 1-2 singles
assistance work
same as squat day but instead of squats I’ll do hex bar deadlifts
Saturday OHP
5/3/1 sets
extra work (this is done by feel but usually looks like)
3x5 week repeat first set for max reps, 3x3 week none, 5/3/1 week work up 1-2 singles
assistance work
5 rounds of Swiss barbell OHP 10 reps at 50-60% supersetted with 10 reps pull ups or barbell rows
neck/trap work
5 rounds
neck flexion with EliteFTS neck harness 10-15 reps
barbell shrugs snatch and deadlift grip 10-15 reps
neck extension hang head off of bench do sit up type movement with 35lb plate 10-15 reps
ab wheel 10-15 reps
Two armed back row done with double prong Meadows row 10-15 reps
[quote]DAVE101 wrote:
If you are missing the “intensity” then you can always add in Joker Sets when you’re feeling good, as outlined in Beyond 5/3/1. The book doesn’t “recommend” 7 week cycles, it lists it as an alternative to the 4 week cycle. Play around and see what works.[/quote]
Joker sets are the friggin’ bomb. IMO they made a great training system, pretty much perfect.
As far as diet (5’9", ~150 lbs, 12% BF) I’m at 2650 calories per day (55% C, 25% P, 20% F), it’s been pretty spot on for the past 3 weeks. Any feedback / suggestions would help. [/quote]
I think much of what can be said has been said here. But if you’re 5’9" 150 pounds and you want to get bigger and stronger you might consider upping your caloric intake, and ensuring a solid 200 grams of that is protein. Then let the program run its course for a good six months and see where you are.
[quote]CxTucker wrote:
This might be due to the fact that I am still on the first cycle, 3rd week, but this program just does not feel like enough intensity. Currently:
Mon:
OH Press 5/3/1 followed by 5x10 @ 50%
Lat Pull downs and BB Curls (Superset, both 5x10)
Tues:
Deadlift 5/3/1 followed by 5x10 @ 50%
Leg Curls and Hanging Leg Raise (Superset, both 5x10)
Wed:
Hill Sprints
Thurs:
Bench Press 5/3/1 followed by 5x10 @ 50%
Dips and DB Rows (Superset, both 5x10)
Fri:
Back Squat 5/3/1 followed by 5x10 @ 50%
Good Mornings and Weighted Sit Ups (Superset, both 5x10)
Sat:
Hill Sprints
Sun:
Off Day
For rests, I’m doing 2-3 min between working sets, and 1 min between the 5x10 sets.
I’m using 90% of my real 1RM (like I’m supposed to) and it’s an accurate 1RM. Is the lack of “strain” just because it’s the first cycle? I’d presume it will get harder in the upcoming cycles. I’m going to skip the first deload and go into Cycle 2 next week.
As far as diet (5’9", ~150 lbs, 12% BF) I’m at 2650 calories per day (55% C, 25% P, 20% F), it’s been pretty spot on for the past 3 weeks. Any feedback / suggestions would help. [/quote]
a)eat more
b)EAT MORE
c)don’t skip the deload
d)yes, it will get harder. “start light”–progression is the entire premise of every effective program. if you blow your whole load at the beginning, to where will you progress?
e)if you feel you’re not working hard enough, put your extra energy into the grill (the best assistance apparatus you will find)