Wendler's 5/3/1 Program - Part 5

Training Powerlifting
681

[quote]Camm wrote:
I have been doing 5/3/1 for 3 days a week for a while and I am now thinking of changing to 2 days a week as I have taken up boxing.
What I was wondering is if anyone has any thoughts on which would be better either-

Squat 5/3/1
Bench 5/3/1
Assistance 3-4

Deadlift 5/3/1
Press 5/3/1
Assistance 3-4

or over a 6 week cycle example

Squat 5/3/1 (maybe add in first set last from the new ebook)
Bench 65%x5 75%x5 85%x5
Assistance 3-4

There does seem to be a lot of options in all the 5/3/1 ebooks and on the internet so I am just trying to find which one would be more beneficial. [/quote]

I’d go with option 1 personally.

Workout A
Squat (facepulls between warmups, chins between work sets)
Bench (pullaparts between warmups, rows between work sets)

DB Bench Press or Dips
and/or
Lunges

Abs

Workout b
Deadlift (facepulls between warmups, chins between work sets)
Press (pullaparts between warmups, rows between work sets)

Good Morning or SLDL
and/or
CG Bench Press or Dips

Abs

Could use Rest-pause, down sets and singles on a “how do I feel today” basis.

Obviously the focus would be getting your main lifts done without messing up your training or vice versa.

682

[quote]Camm wrote:
I have been doing 5/3/1 for 3 days a week for a while and I am now thinking of changing to 2 days a week as I have taken up boxing.
What I was wondering is if anyone has any thoughts on which would be better either-

Squat 5/3/1
Bench 5/3/1
Assistance 3-4

Deadlift 5/3/1
Press 5/3/1
Assistance 3-4

or over a 6 week cycle example

Squat 5/3/1 (maybe add in first set last from the new ebook)
Bench 65%x5 75%x5 85%x5
Assistance 3-4

There does seem to be a lot of options in all the 5/3/1 ebooks and on the internet so I am just trying to find which one would be more beneficial. [/quote]

I agree with panzer that the first option is better, but I disagree slighty with him on the “assistance”, I would focus the assistance on what the main lifts doesnt hit aka ditch the xtra upperbody pressing/ or add more rows/chins to balance out the xtra pressing if you follow his suggested template. the lunges and RDL/Good mornings are fine if you have energy for it after heavy squats & bench + rows or deads & press + chins. I would rather go for the first set last aproach if you think you need more volume on the agonists in the big lifts then what you get from just the regular 5,3,1 sets. first set last is simply to do the first work set again after you hit the main set of the day. You can either go for one max rep set, do 3-5 x 3-5 and focus on form or if you are insane you can shot for a total of 50 reps no matter what.

Here is how I would set it up:

Day 1:
Squat: 5,3,1.
Bench: 5,3,1. + rear delts( raises, band pull aparts etc betweeen every set )
DB rows: 3-5 x 10.
Back raises/or GHR: 3-5 x 10-15.

  • fluff( arms, delts, calves etc ) if you have the time and energy.

Day 2:
Deadlift: 5,3,1.
Press: 5,3,1. + rear delts.
Pull ups/Chin ups: 3 x max reps or shot for a total of 30-50 reps.
Leg raises/or sit ups: 3-5 x 10-15.

  • fluff( arms, delts, calves etc ) if you have the time and energy.

^doesnt get much simpler than that and it is fairly balanced.

Another option is the rest pause variation Jim wrote about in an article on this site not that long ago.

683

Thanks for the input guys. I was thinking that option 1 would be the better choice, also thanks for the assistance options.

@Panzerfaust, good to see another kiwi on here! I am currently living in Germany but go home every so often.

684

Hey everyone,

I don’t have the patience to sift through the 5 full threads to find my answer, but I didn’t think there would be any better place to ask than in this thread. I have been running 5/3/1 (or my version of boring but big) for about 18 months. I was wondering what your rep ranges looked like when you made the best gains, what they looked like when you decided to deload, and how long it took you to plateau with this rep scheme.

I don’t know how I feel about getting 1 rep on a work set. It just doesn’t feel like enough work to last a week. I usually end up doing some extra work, but I am not sure if this defeats the purpose of the program or not. Also, what do you feel is the best assistance for strength. I may ditch all my accessory volume and just go after my numbers for a few months.

A little note about myself. I don’t think I have ever gotten to a point where my work set was less than 4 reps on any week. I have only had to back off my weights twice in 18 months, and this was due to time in the hospital, and various life events. I don’t think I have ever had to deload due to not being able to make the reps while I was feeling good/healthy. Thanks for your time.

685

[quote]trivium wrote:
Hey everyone,

I don’t have the patience to sift through the 5 full threads to find my answer, but I didn’t think there would be any better place to ask than in this thread. I have been running 5/3/1 (or my version of boring but big) for about 18 months. I was wondering what your rep ranges looked like when you made the best gains, what they looked like when you decided to deload, and how long it took you to plateau with this rep scheme.

I don’t know how I feel about getting 1 rep on a work set. It just doesn’t feel like enough work to last a week. I usually end up doing some extra work, but I am not sure if this defeats the purpose of the program or not. Also, what do you feel is the best assistance for strength. I may ditch all my accessory volume and just go after my numbers for a few months.

A little note about myself. I don’t think I have ever gotten to a point where my work set was less than 4 reps on any week. I have only had to back off my weights twice in 18 months, and this was due to time in the hospital, and various life events. I don’t think I have ever had to deload due to not being able to make the reps while I was feeling good/healthy. Thanks for your time.[/quote]

I personally like to get at least 2-3 reps over minimum. Also do you have beyond 5/3/1, because it does have some solutions for adding more work with the main lift.

686

[quote]trivium wrote:
Hey everyone,

I don’t have the patience to sift through the 5 full threads to find my answer, but I didn’t think there would be any better place to ask than in this thread. I have been running 5/3/1 (or my version of boring but big) for about 18 months. I was wondering what your rep ranges looked like when you made the best gains, what they looked like when you decided to deload, and how long it took you to plateau with this rep scheme.

I don’t know how I feel about getting 1 rep on a work set. It just doesn’t feel like enough work to last a week. I usually end up doing some extra work, but I am not sure if this defeats the purpose of the program or not. Also, what do you feel is the best assistance for strength. I may ditch all my accessory volume and just go after my numbers for a few months.

A little note about myself. I don’t think I have ever gotten to a point where my work set was less than 4 reps on any week. I have only had to back off my weights twice in 18 months, and this was due to time in the hospital, and various life events. I don’t think I have ever had to deload due to not being able to make the reps while I was feeling good/healthy. Thanks for your time.[/quote]
I’ll give you my personal thoughts. I will reset even if I am still getting my required reps. I’d rather not fail a 1 rep max. This program is about submaximal weight. If I’m going to have to grind to hit my required reps, I’d rather throw my ego out, reset, and milk as many reps out as I can.

I’ve never analyzed my gains via which rep range they came from; I only worry about surpassing previous rep maxes. In general, however, I get stronger with higher reps on squat and deadlift and with lower reps on bench and press.

My assistance, as all assistance should be is a mixture of work for size and addressing weak points. I’ve been using pause sets with compensatory acceleration to generate greater starting strength to address power issues. For size, I’ll do high rep work. Quick and easy, though not necessarily painless

687

[quote]Mdgray82 wrote:

[quote]trivium wrote:
Hey everyone,

I don’t have the patience to sift through the 5 full threads to find my answer, but I didn’t think there would be any better place to ask than in this thread. I have been running 5/3/1 (or my version of boring but big) for about 18 months. I was wondering what your rep ranges looked like when you made the best gains, what they looked like when you decided to deload, and how long it took you to plateau with this rep scheme.

I don’t know how I feel about getting 1 rep on a work set. It just doesn’t feel like enough work to last a week. I usually end up doing some extra work, but I am not sure if this defeats the purpose of the program or not. Also, what do you feel is the best assistance for strength. I may ditch all my accessory volume and just go after my numbers for a few months.

A little note about myself. I don’t think I have ever gotten to a point where my work set was less than 4 reps on any week. I have only had to back off my weights twice in 18 months, and this was due to time in the hospital, and various life events. I don’t think I have ever had to deload due to not being able to make the reps while I was feeling good/healthy. Thanks for your time.[/quote]

I personally like to get at least 2-3 reps over minimum. Also do you have beyond 5/3/1, because it does have some solutions for adding more work with the main lift.[/quote]

Yes, like a dozen different ways.

688

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Mdgray82 wrote:

[quote]trivium wrote:
Hey everyone,

I don’t have the patience to sift through the 5 full threads to find my answer, but I didn’t think there would be any better place to ask than in this thread. I have been running 5/3/1 (or my version of boring but big) for about 18 months. I was wondering what your rep ranges looked like when you made the best gains, what they looked like when you decided to deload, and how long it took you to plateau with this rep scheme.

I don’t know how I feel about getting 1 rep on a work set. It just doesn’t feel like enough work to last a week. I usually end up doing some extra work, but I am not sure if this defeats the purpose of the program or not. Also, what do you feel is the best assistance for strength. I may ditch all my accessory volume and just go after my numbers for a few months.

A little note about myself. I don’t think I have ever gotten to a point where my work set was less than 4 reps on any week. I have only had to back off my weights twice in 18 months, and this was due to time in the hospital, and various life events. I don’t think I have ever had to deload due to not being able to make the reps while I was feeling good/healthy. Thanks for your time.[/quote]

I personally like to get at least 2-3 reps over minimum. Also do you have beyond 5/3/1, because it does have some solutions for adding more work with the main lift.[/quote]

Yes, like a dozen different ways.[/quote]

I don’t have the book yet. What I’ve been doing is picking a theme for the week. This week was that I would set a new rep record, or try to at least tie a previous one, then I will get the prescribed reps in my second set with the same weight. I am thinking that next week I will work up then pyramid down. The following week I will hit my training maxes, etc…

689

There’s nothing wrong with grinding out your reps. Especially if your actually doing meets. You need to be comfortable grinding. So the occasional grinder on the 5/3/1 week is not a problem. You should be hitting that last set as long as your truly using 90% of your TRUE max.

You should never not get the last set for the required reps. If you do, you’ve either estimated too high, or its just time to reset and start over. I saw my best consistent gains when I first started the program. I was fresh off a max attempts 2 weeks prior. So I took 90% of that and went with it. When I couldn’t at least get one rep over the minimum, I reset.

I only deloaded when I felt I needed it. I did straight up BBB sets, with 50%, each week I tried to go a little heavier, roughly 5%, until I couldn’t hit 5x10. Lately I’ve been doing the “First Set Last” template. Leaving a rep in the tank on the 3rd set and going for broke on the “first set last” set. I used to do a shit ton of accessory work, especially on my BP and Press days. Now I don’t do so much. Pounded the triceps (because that’s the primary mover of the BP…??) All I had to show for that was sore elbows. Do the 5/3/1 sets, BBB 5x10 aimed at a weakness, and one or two other accessories, and be done.

690

[quote]Willem85 wrote:
Front squats improve off-the-floor-strength?[/quote]

I have been doing the BBB version of 5/3/1 just finished my first cycle. I have been doing 5x10 of front squats after my days that I deadlift and I am feeling very strong off the floor and I attribute that to these, and also the high volume goodmornings. I wouldn’t substitute regular squat for front squat, but incorporating front squats has helped me with this

691

[quote]trivium wrote:
Hey everyone,

Also, what do you feel is the best assistance for strength.
quote]

Jim has said multiple times that Kroc Rows have helped the most for his grip strength, and he deemed it the best accessory lift. Since I read that I started incorporating them in my training and I see why Jim likes them so much. I have seen a significant increase in my grip, and my upper back development has improved in the short time that I have been doing them. These will translate to all upper body lifts. For lower body the best accessory lifts are good mornings and Glute ham raises. This is my opinion but I think that many would agree.

692

[quote]mwiersma wrote:

[quote]trivium wrote:
Hey everyone,

Also, what do you feel is the best assistance for strength.
quote]

Jim has said multiple times that Kroc Rows have helped the most for his grip strength, and he deemed it the best accessory lift. Since I read that I started incorporating them in my training and I see why Jim likes them so much. I have seen a significant increase in my grip, and my upper back development has improved in the short time that I have been doing them. These will translate to all upper body lifts. For lower body the best accessory lifts are good mornings and Glute ham raises. This is my opinion but I think that many would agree. [/quote]
also “Kroc shrugs” - just do an extra set of shrugs without straps for high reps

693

[quote]browndisaster wrote:

[quote]mwiersma wrote:

[quote]trivium wrote:
Hey everyone,

Also, what do you feel is the best assistance for strength.
quote]

Jim has said multiple times that Kroc Rows have helped the most for his grip strength, and he deemed it the best accessory lift. Since I read that I started incorporating them in my training and I see why Jim likes them so much. I have seen a significant increase in my grip, and my upper back development has improved in the short time that I have been doing them. These will translate to all upper body lifts. For lower body the best accessory lifts are good mornings and Glute ham raises. This is my opinion but I think that many would agree. [/quote]
also “Kroc shrugs” - just do an extra set of shrugs without straps for high reps
[/quote]

The only time I have ever had sore forearms was when I had to farmer carry 110’s from one gym to another on the opposite side of the basketball court at college. Those things are a bitch if you do them hard haha. I completely underestimated them.

694

[quote]Rschwitalski wrote:
There’s nothing wrong with grinding out your reps. Especially if your actually doing meets. You need to be comfortable grinding. So the occasional grinder on the 5/3/1 week is not a problem. You should be hitting that last set as long as your truly using 90% of your TRUE max.

You should never not get the last set for the required reps. If you do, you’ve either estimated too high, or its just time to reset and start over. I saw my best consistent gains when I first started the program. I was fresh off a max attempts 2 weeks prior. So I took 90% of that and went with it. When I couldn’t at least get one rep over the minimum, I reset.

I only deloaded when I felt I needed it. I did straight up BBB sets, with 50%, each week I tried to go a little heavier, roughly 5%, until I couldn’t hit 5x10. Lately I’ve been doing the “First Set Last” template. Leaving a rep in the tank on the 3rd set and going for broke on the “first set last” set. I used to do a shit ton of accessory work, especially on my BP and Press days. Now I don’t do so much. Pounded the triceps (because that’s the primary mover of the BP…??) All I had to show for that was sore elbows. Do the 5/3/1 sets, BBB 5x10 aimed at a weakness, and one or two other accessories, and be done. [/quote]

Today was my “5/3/1” week. I got 8 reps with my top weight and did the pyramid down with 1 min rest between sets.

695

[quote]trivium wrote:
Today was my “5/3/1” week. I got 8 reps with my top weight and did the pyramid down with 1 min rest between sets.[/quote]

That’s what I do for upper body lifts to get more volume in.

For lower body I started using the “rule of 10” to get in more reps of heavier - but not soul crushing - weights. My lower body seems to respond better to heavier weights.

696

Is 531 adjustable to have more frequent weight increases than monthly for a beginner? I like the look of the program and the amount of information available, but since I’m a beginner coming from six months of Starting Strength, 531 is probably too advanced for me when I could make more frequent weight increases with a weekly program or something. If 531 can be adjusted I’d prefer that over other weekly programs I’ve seen.

697

[quote]electricred wrote:
Is 531 adjustable to have more frequent weight increases than monthly for a beginner? I like the look of the program and the amount of information available, but since I’m a beginner coming from six months of Starting Strength, 531 is probably too advanced for me when I could make more frequent weight increases with a weekly program or something. If 531 can be adjusted I’d prefer that over other weekly programs I’ve seen.[/quote]
In Beyond 5/3/1, Jim has something called the 5’s Progression, which he said is good for beginners on the main lift. It’s 3x5, ramping up the weight, and increasing the weight weekly.

698

[quote]electricred wrote:
Is 531 adjustable to have more frequent weight increases than monthly for a beginner? I like the look of the program and the amount of information available, but since I’m a beginner coming from six months of Starting Strength, 531 is probably too advanced for me when I could make more frequent weight increases with a weekly program or something. If 531 can be adjusted I’d prefer that over other weekly programs I’ve seen.[/quote]
Buy the “Beyond 5/3/1” book and do the 5’s progression + joker sets (p.51); this way you will not need more frequent weight increase, as you’ll be…well, read the book, and find it out by yourself :wink: !

699

Hey BD I was strolling through this thread and looked at your profile pic and thought “Hmm thats a rather odd/gay profile for a dude to post”.

Then it dawned on my that that is the same pose a certain female poster on here struck for her profile photo. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[quote]browndisaster wrote:

[quote]mwiersma wrote:

[quote]trivium wrote:
Hey everyone,

Also, what do you feel is the best assistance for strength.
quote]

Jim has said multiple times that Kroc Rows have helped the most for his grip strength, and he deemed it the best accessory lift. Since I read that I started incorporating them in my training and I see why Jim likes them so much. I have seen a significant increase in my grip, and my upper back development has improved in the short time that I have been doing them. These will translate to all upper body lifts. For lower body the best accessory lifts are good mornings and Glute ham raises. This is my opinion but I think that many would agree. [/quote]
also “Kroc shrugs” - just do an extra set of shrugs without straps for high reps
[/quote]

700

I think I am going to take my measurements and switch to the triumvirate. I think a year straight of Boring But Big is enough haha. I am also going to add two “meathead days” to do my arm/trap work. Tomorrow I will create a routine and post it for review if you guys wouldn’t mind.