Wendler's 5/3/1 Program - Part 5

Training Powerlifting
661

Double Bodyweight Deadlift!
I am on an unbelievable high right now.

5/3/1 week. Last set calls for 145 x 1+. 146 is double BW so I know what I have to do - I load it up to 147 and go for it.
It just flew up. Fast and strong.

(I was so surprised how “easy” it was that I got cocky and went for a double - but didn’t make it.)

I have been chasing this goal for 2 years. 2 damn years this has been on my mind.
In the big picture I’m much weaker than most of you guys - but outside of here there are very few guys in the gym or on the block that can actually pull twice their bodyweight.

I love you Jim Wendler.

662

[quote]Zaurus wrote:
Double Bodyweight Deadlift!
I am on an unbelievable high right now.

5/3/1 week. Last set calls for 145 x 1+. 146 is double BW so I know what I have to do - I load it up to 147 and go for it.
It just flew up. Fast and strong.

(I was so surprised how “easy” it was that I got cocky and went for a double - but didn’t make it.)

I have been chasing this goal for 2 years. 2 damn years this has been on my mind.
In the big picture I’m much weaker than most of you guys - but outside of here there are very few guys in the gym or on the block that can actually pull twice their bodyweight.

I love you Jim Wendler.[/quote]

Good man, such a brilliant feeling of achievement and motivates you to keep going and hitting new PR’s. Currently I weigh in at 72Kgs and my Deadlift max is at 175KGs so nearly 2.5 x Bodyweight. At the moment my Bench is only just over 80KG so that sucks and I am trying desperately to get stronger on it.

How are your other lifts especially upper body as I am quite interested! :smiley:

Tom

663

[quote]xTommyTickles92 wrote:
Good man, such a brilliant feeling of achievement and motivates you to keep going and hitting new PR’s. Currently I weigh in at 72Kgs and my Deadlift max is at 175KGs so nearly 2.5 x Bodyweight. At the moment my Bench is only just over 80KG so that sucks and I am trying desperately to get stronger on it.

How are your other lifts especially upper body as I am quite interested! :smiley:

Tom
[/quote]

How tall are you? I’m 6 feet so I’m pretty thin. I just can’t seem to gain. (I’m on a new peanut butter diet - trying to get an extra 600 calories per day by eating 4 heaping spoonfuls every day…)

Great numbers on the DL brother. For those of us not superheroes a 2.5 (or close to it) BW DL is awesome. My next goal is 400 which would be 2.5 for me - but that seems a looong way off right now.

My bench is embarrassingly low. Low 70’s. From what I can gather low body weight really affects the bench for some reason. Truth is it doesn’t bother me. I’d love to hit 100 at some point but my main focus has been on the DL which is inching up.

I also switched Shoulder press for Chins (a hobby of mine is wall climbing and chins and DL’s have great transfer). My current chin is BW+22.5kg x 3 and steadily climbing.

664

2nd week back into 5/3/1 after a small layoff. Definitely more focused on moving north of Vag this time…

Squat 5/3/1
BBB 5x10
weighted glute bridges 3x10
abductor/adductor supersets 3 or 4 sets
some abs and calfs

Bench 5/3/1 - superset with chins
BBB 5x10 - superset with db rows
close grip bench from pins/w fat grips 3x8
curl/press down superset with fat grips couple sets higher reps

Sumo Dead 5/3/1
BBB 5x10
weighted glute bridges 3x10
abductor/adductor supersets 3 or 4 sets
some abs and calfs

Military press 5/3/1 - superset with chest supported rows
snatch grip high pulls 5x5
weighted dips 3x8 - superset with chins
curl/press down superset with fat grips couple sets higher reps
defranco ‘shoulder circuit’ 3 sets

On off days I either do hill sprints or walk with my econo prowler. Diet has been paleo the last 2 weeks and I’m enjoying it more than I thought I would. Sitting at 6ft, just weighed in at 223. I would like to get down to 205-210 with strength increasing over the next 6 months.

665

I am 5ft 7in and weigh 72Kg which is 159lbs, so I’m quite the opposite to you as I am short. I started on Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe and that really helped increase my strength overall over 6 months of doing it. Thing is I only realized that my upper body had progressed alot slower. Upper Body is always harder to improve plus I find to increase strength on top you have to add size unlike Lower body where you are able to increase the load so much more without having to add muscle mass.
Anyway your stats are looking good just keeping hitting the weights, all my size and strength gains as a newbie came from Starting Strength where you are basically constantly confusing your body and motor units by adding weight to the bar every workout.

Tom

666

[quote]panzerfaust wrote:

[quote]w-a-t-p wrote:
With my stalled Military, Do I strip it back on weight or what?[/quote]

My OHP is around 80kg, so not huge.
I stalled around 70kg and felt like I went backwards somewhat.
What helped me: More Pressing.
I was using 5/3/1 Full Body and started doing some form of overhead pressing every training day. So I had my 5/3/1 Overhead Press day. I would do “back off” sets, and often heavy singles up to 90% of my true max.
Then on my 5/3/1 Bench day I would do Push Press in a 5 set arrangement, scaling the reps down from 5 reps to 1 rep as I increased weight every set.
And on my other training day I did Dips and Standing Overhead Dumbbell Press.
Lots of pressing requires lots of pulling, so I also did 50 chins every training day, of varying grip.

This got my Press moving again. It’s a bitch of a lift, requires a lot of work.[/quote]

panzerfaust, It’s been 3-4 months now and I’m still on-going this situation.

However, after reading through the book, I stuck by Jim’s words of wisdom and kept patient. Jim says it in the new book as well that The weak will complain and try to blame things and the strong know that success is just around the corner. So I tried to persevere and push harder.

On cycle 6 I stripped the weight a little and put in a new 90%. I’ve not just completed cycle 6, 7 and 8 But I my Military has not moved since day 1. At I mentioned before my initial 1rm for Military was 70kg when I first started. And although I stalled a fair bit over the course, I’ve got it back to 70kg. So I feel a little deflated by that.

I was doing standard 531 4 days per week (Mon-Tue-Thru-Fri) and doing BBB sets between 3x10 to 5x10 depending how I felt.

Right now, I don’t know where to go. I’m currently reading through the new Beyond 531 book and perhaps more volume is the way to go, just to pick a template though and or perhaps I should go off-course and try something else for a bit like Matt Rhodes plan?

Cheers,

667

[quote]w-a-t-p wrote:
Right now, I don’t know where to go. I’m currently reading through the new Beyond 531 book and perhaps more volume is the way to go
[/quote]
Beyond 531 has the answer for just about anything, I think somewhere in there even lies the cure for cancer.

I vote yes on more volume. On ohp day, I suggest doing a couple of joker sets then pyramid back down to first set last going for broke on both down sets. Then on bp day, do 5x10 ohp.

Remember, BBB doesn’t have to be 5x10 sets across. It can be ascending, descending, 5x5, 5x3, 5x1,…lots of good options.

668

More volume is probably the easiest thing to do, but don’t forget you might just need more recovery. I went from the standard 4 day template to the 3 day this current cycle to see if my recovery is any better.

669

[quote]MightyMouse17 wrote:
you might just need more recovery[/quote]
This is true, too.

With that in mind, maybe less volume is the way to go. Using a 6 week cycle now instead of 4 week, maybe he should do a few cycles without BBB. Just do the joker sets and first set last and that’s it.

670

[quote]w-a-t-p wrote:

[quote]panzerfaust wrote:

[quote]w-a-t-p wrote:
With my stalled Military, Do I strip it back on weight or what?[/quote]

My OHP is around 80kg, so not huge.
I stalled around 70kg and felt like I went backwards somewhat.
What helped me: More Pressing.
I was using 5/3/1 Full Body and started doing some form of overhead pressing every training day. So I had my 5/3/1 Overhead Press day. I would do “back off” sets, and often heavy singles up to 90% of my true max.
Then on my 5/3/1 Bench day I would do Push Press in a 5 set arrangement, scaling the reps down from 5 reps to 1 rep as I increased weight every set.
And on my other training day I did Dips and Standing Overhead Dumbbell Press.
Lots of pressing requires lots of pulling, so I also did 50 chins every training day, of varying grip.

This got my Press moving again. It’s a bitch of a lift, requires a lot of work.[/quote]

panzerfaust, It’s been 3-4 months now and I’m still on-going this situation.

However, after reading through the book, I stuck by Jim’s words of wisdom and kept patient. Jim says it in the new book as well that The weak will complain and try to blame things and the strong know that success is just around the corner. So I tried to persevere and push harder.

On cycle 6 I stripped the weight a little and put in a new 90%. I’ve not just completed cycle 6, 7 and 8 But I my Military has not moved since day 1. At I mentioned before my initial 1rm for Military was 70kg when I first started. And although I stalled a fair bit over the course, I’ve got it back to 70kg. So I feel a little deflated by that.

I was doing standard 531 4 days per week (Mon-Tue-Thru-Fri) and doing BBB sets between 3x10 to 5x10 depending how I felt.

Right now, I don’t know where to go. I’m currently reading through the new Beyond 531 book and perhaps more volume is the way to go, just to pick a template though and or perhaps I should go off-course and try something else for a bit like Matt Rhodes plan?

Cheers,
[/quote]

Hey bro, just saw this post now. My OHP has likely dropped this year as I have been mostly benching. Back into a Wendler program now so this should change over the next few cycles.

I see you are similar size to me at 182cm and 200lbs (210 here). You’ve also been lifting a similar amount of time to me.

What’s your eating like? If you are in deficit or maintenance, eat at a surplus.

Do you have a training log? Good for keeping shit in perspective.

How are your other lifts progressing lately? Can’t always get better at everything at once.

How often are you going for new 1RMs? Too often? Can be a mind-fuck often failing heavy singles.

Are you basing your “unimproved” 70kg OHP on calculated max or actual max? Perhaps the reps are misleading you.

You could answer all those questions if you want, but at the end of the day I honestly just think:

-Choose a program from Wendler’s latest (and most awesome) book. If you have been on the same training for months and months, choose a new template. Maybe try Beyond 5/3/1? I just began it, come issue a OHP challenge NZ vs Scotland haha.
-Stick with what ever you choose for 6 months minimum.
-Focus your accessory work on the lift you want to improve the most.
-Try different volume approaches, IE drop sets, joker sets, rest pause sets, etc…
-Eat like a lunatic, sleep like the dead.

If your press does not improve, I will eat my hat.

***I do not own a hat.

671

Hi, everybody! Just bought “Beyond 5/3/1”, that motivated me to train with 5/3/1 again.

I want to share with you a couple of variations of the basic program, that worked very well for me and some other guys that tried it.

The first one it’s a kind of wave loading, since we go through the three sets three times, in a wave fashion (duh!). Here’s an example with first week percentages:

65%x5, 75%x5, 85%x5 (first “wave”)
65%x5, 75%x5, 85%x5 (second “wave”)
65%x5, 75%x5, 85%x5+ (third “wave”)

then you can go for heavy single(s), if you feel like. I find it’s a foolproof way to add volume in your training.

The second one works better with novice or female, or any person that needs more time to get used to a load before moving up. It goes like this:

3 (sets) x 5 (reps) 65%
3x5 75%
3x5 85%

last set for max reps, and/or progressively heavier singles. Of course, now that we know about Joker sets, they are a viable option too.

I’d like to know if anyone else has come up with something like this and their experience with it.

672

fabiop - you didn’t feel too much fatigue when you reached that last money set? I like the wave idea a lot but would be concerned about missing that last money set which is the most important one.

673

Actually, I just finished reading Beyond 5/3/1 - your wave loading idea is similar to Wendler’s new Spinal Tap variation but with less intensity. Interesting!

And since Wendler opened the floodgates, I’ll share a variation that has been working well for me:
I have found that 5’s week is the hardest week for me. And others have expressed the same thing. This is especially true the deeper you go into your cycles. By the 6th cycle trying to hit 5+ after 2 previous sets of 5 at relatively heavy weight was difficult and I did not have time in the gym to wait 5+ minutes between each set for full recovery.
As such, I modified it so that I did Set 1 for a double, Set 2 for a double, and then Set 3 for the rep max of 5+. This allowed me to feel primed for the money set but not too fatigued. After destroying the money set, I then went back to Set 2 for 5 and then Set 1 for 5+. So I still got the same volume in - I just did it on the reverse side of the money set. Doing this made 5’s week easier and I never missed a rep on the other side of the money set.
(After reading Beyond 5/3/1 I may add a bit more volume on the “First Set last” set as well.)

674

Thanks for the responses and your comments!!

I feel I need something new than BBB right now.

I really like the look of the new Full Body template 3 days a week though, I’ve never really done anything like that before. However I also like of the new Beyond 531 too that you have started panzerfaust.

[quote]panzerfaust wrote:Hey bro, just saw this post now. My OHP has likely dropped this year as I have been mostly benching. Back into a Wendler program now so this should change over the next few cycles.

I see you are similar size to me at 182cm and 200lbs (210 here). You’ve also been lifting a similar amount of time to me.

What’s your eating like? If you are in deficit or maintenance, eat at a surplus.
Do you have a training log? Good for keeping shit in perspective.
How are your other lifts progressing lately? Can’t always get better at everything at once.
How often are you going for new 1RMs? Too often? Can be a mind-fuck often failing heavy singles.
Are you basing your “unimproved” 70kg OHP on calculated max or actual max? Perhaps the reps are misleading you.

If your press does not improve, I will eat my hat.

***I do not own a hat.[/quote]

I have only hit a bodyweight of 200lbs this year. The heaviest I’ve ever been actual. My body type is ectomorph, tall and bean pole skinny when I was young. I was stuck within the 180lbs for a long time. As you’d imagine I have gained some fat, I think I’m around 17-18% on scales. To be honest, I’ve never really had a proper cut right down to signle bf% and always focused to get myself bigger. And with my body type I feel that if and when I do try to diet and burn fat, it’s a slow and painful process and I’ll just lose all my efforts. - So the process for next summer I need to think about a lot on what to do. Over the last couple of months (2 to 3) I’ve just been trying to maintain this weight.

I had a painful hip injury for a long time, I stupidly tried to train through it and eventually I seen light and gave in and stopped doing lower body (Squatting + Deads) for around 8 months. My legs are scrawny as it is. I had to go back and progress from stage 1 with leg press to 1 leg and right now I have actually just got myself back into full stride and squatting again once a week and got my Squat up to 100kg. Using Oly Shoes. I realise this is still pretty weak but I am not comparing myself to anybody else and as long as I see more stronger progress I am Happy.

_

I couldn’t challenge you… Because you NZ ‘All Blacks’ are way far more superior to us Scots :)… Aha!!

Regarding Beyond 531… I like the look of it for it’s flexibility, it’s use for higher weights and also the ability to add ‘joker’ work up sets and first set last. I assume it would be okay to use â??First Set Lastâ?? as multiple sets (3-5sets of 5-8reps) or all-­â??out rest pause set to change things up?

The only other thing I’m not sure on is because there is no set plan, especially the percentages, so If we up the weight every 3 weeks, we are basically working up to that cycles training max three times (doing the same thing for three weeks?) ? - As at least with 531 we had set and different percentages each week - but I guess that just justifies the difference.

Regarding the PR Set… How are you guiding it? I know it’s not max reps but are you keeping a few in the tank or 1 or what?

PS: Buy a hat!!!

675

[quote]Zaurus wrote:
Actually, I just finished reading Beyond 5/3/1 - your wave loading idea is similar to Wendler’s new Spinal Tap variation but with less intensity. Interesting![/quote]
Spinal Taping is the variation I’m doing right now, since I started last week, with brand new max; weights are relatively light, so I’m tolerating the volume quite well.

[quote]And since Wendler opened the floodgates, I’ll share a variation that has been working well for me:
I have found that 5’s week is the hardest week for me. And others have expressed the same thing. This is especially true the deeper you go into your cycles. By the 6th cycle trying to hit 5+ after 2 previous sets of 5 at relatively heavy weight was difficult and I did not have time in the gym to wait 5+ minutes between each set for full recovery.
As such, I modified it so that I did Set 1 for a double, Set 2 for a double, and then Set 3 for the rep max of 5+. This allowed me to feel primed for the money set but not too fatigued. After destroying the money set, I then went back to Set 2 for 5 and then Set 1 for 5+. So I still got the same volume in - I just did it on the reverse side of the money set. Doing this made 5’s week easier and I never missed a rep on the other side of the money set.
(After reading Beyond 5/3/1 I may add a bit more volume on the “First Set last” set as well.)[/quote]
It sounds pretty much like the “Bastard set”, a variation by Matt Rhodes.

676

I think I’m going to experiment with doing the first set last as an easy way to get some more volume in without sacrificing a bunch of time. For assistance, I’m going to do either 5x5 or 5x3, depending on how I feel, then it’s time for high rep assistance - AKA chasing the pump. I like Paul Carter’s 350 Method - 3 sets to get up to 50 reps. Once you hit it, up the weight. I’ve also been throwing in pause reps on squat and bench, but I’ve been increasing on feel, not on a percentage of my max.

On deadlift day, instead of the 5x5 or 3x5 as discussed above, I’m probably going to do front squats to work on my off the floor strength.

677

Front squats improve off-the-floor-strength?

678

Your mileage may vary, but for me personally, when my front squat goes up so does my off the floor strength for deadlifts due to the added quad strength

679

I have no mileage yet on this it was a genuine (beginner-1year) question. Not a cynic remark. Thanks
tried frontsquatting couple.of.times when I had no rack availableto backsquat, but am not flexible enough yet.

680

I have been doing 5/3/1 for 3 days a week for a while and I am now thinking of changing to 2 days a week as I have taken up boxing.
What I was wondering is if anyone has any thoughts on which would be better either-

Squat 5/3/1
Bench 5/3/1
Assistance 3-4

Deadlift 5/3/1
Press 5/3/1
Assistance 3-4

or over a 6 week cycle example

Squat 5/3/1 (maybe add in first set last from the new ebook)
Bench 65%x5 75%x5 85%x5
Assistance 3-4

There does seem to be a lot of options in all the 5/3/1 ebooks and on the internet so I am just trying to find which one would be more beneficial.