Wendler's 5/3/1 Program - Part 5

[quote]Zaurus wrote:
What the fuck?

I hit a PR of 140kg x 2 on my Deadlift at the end of Cycle 6.

Week 1 of Cycle 7 and the weight felt freakin heavy. I barely finished the 2nd set. On the money set I only got 2 @ 130KG.
So I went from 140x2 to 130x2.

Ouch!

I know I need to focus on the big, long term picture but this is discouraging.

A few hours before my workout I was chasing my kid all over the place teaching him how to ride his bike. So at least some of it may be due to that but still - 140 x 2 to 130 x 2 when I should have gotten at least 5 is a big down turn.

That happen to anyone? Thoughts?[/quote]

Do you use touch and go or reset deads? I used to have the same problem regularly when I did touch and go. You get a bunch of bounce and wind up doing like 6 reps with 1RM. Not sure if that’s your issue, but it could be.

I’ve been on 5/3/1 for the past 16 months, i have increased my bench quite considerable as well went for a mid 200’s guy to finally hitting 315 raw . Not a big deal for most guys but i has been an eight year battle for my skinny ass. Two factors that i think benifitted me, #1, I FOLLOWED WENDLERS ADVISE and super setter every pressing exercise with pull-ups, on DL day i also hit a shit tone of kroc rows. #2 i added variots of olympic lifts to my training, here is what i have been doing.

Deadlift day

Deadlift- 5/3/1 sets
bent over rows 5x10
dumbell rows 3x10
kroc rows 1x10
standing Barbell curls 4x10

Bench Day

Bench 5/3/1 sets/ SS with Pull ups
Band Bench presses 5x10
Dips weighted 5x10
100 push-ups

off

Squats
Power cleans 6x3
Squats 5/3/1
still leg deadlifts 5x10
calf raise 5x10

Press

Military press 5/3/1
snatch 6x3
upright rows 5x10
shrugs 5x10

Once a week i run hills and hit abs whenever i get a chance. Lift consistantly and also eat like a horse.

[quote]Zaurus wrote:
No disrespect at all brother - we are all here trying to be better.

How do you get 160 - a 25kg increase after 3 months? Maybe I’m doing it wrong?
90% of 135kg (Your 1 RM) gives you about 122. You add 10 pounds each month (say 5 kilo)
So Month 1 is 122kg, Month 2 is 127kg, month 3 is 132kg. How do you get 160 after 3 cycles?

Maybe you are referencing your calculated 1RM? I am discussing my actual weights lifted.

My calculated 1 RM is now 149 KG.

So I started at 136 with straps. Straps gave me at least 5kg extra - maybe 10.

So I have improved 136 to 149 (calculated): an improvement of 13 kg (about 29 pounds).
Throw in the fact that my original 1rm was with straps and I’d say my real improvement is probably around 18-20 kg. (about 40 pounds or so).
An improvement of 40+ pounds over 8 months is great for me.

Especially considering I have always been a pathetically weak bastard.

I’m actually really excited because next cycle will take me to double bodyweight. I have been chasing that goal for over 2 years now![/quote]

First of all, apologies for the late reply, I lost track of things.

Good point with the straps, quite possible that it skewed your baseline. If so then that improvement sounds quite good, natural variation and so on. Still, I’m a bit concerned about the difference in our progress, what’s your assistance work look like and how’s your progression in your other lifts? Goochadamg’s questions about your nutrition and weight gain/loss are also good ones.

As for my numbers, I tested at the end of the 3 months, saw how the calculated 1RM was going (one week I got 110 kg for 12 reps) and decided I’d like to see whether that was accurate. So in the 132 kg month for week 3 I did just the required reps/weights then loaded the bar to 150 kg, lifted it then felt good so I went for 160 kg. Failed 170 kg though.

As for your more recent post:

[quote]Zaurus wrote:
What the fuck?

I hit a PR of 140kg x 2 on my Deadlift at the end of Cycle 6.

Week 1 of Cycle 7 and the weight felt freakin heavy. I barely finished the 2nd set. On the money set I only got 2 @ 130KG.
So I went from 140x2 to 130x2.

Ouch!

I know I need to focus on the big, long term picture but this is discouraging.

A few hours before my workout I was chasing my kid all over the place teaching him how to ride his bike. So at least some of it may be due to that but still - 140 x 2 to 130 x 2 when I should have gotten at least 5 is a big down turn.

That happen to anyone? Thoughts?[/quote]

Yep, happened to me before. One cycle I benched 72.5 kg for 11 and 75 for 8, then the next cycle only got 72.5 for 8. Of course, it had to be a day when a friend came along. Best advice I can give is to shake it off and move on, there’s always next week, then next month and next year. I’d only be concerned if it continues like that for a few weeks.

Thanks for the advice guys.
Been a weak shlub all my life but working on changing that via 5/3/1.

I am the poster boy for Ectomorph. Tall and thin.
6 Feet 161 pounds. Don’t laugh. Started training 3 years ago. Put on 20 pounds of muscle since. HUGE for me considering I had been at more or less the same stupid skinny weight for the past 10+ years.

I know the answer is eat, eat, eat.
I have been eating more than I ever have in my life since starting the program. Even my wife commented how much more I eat these days.

  • a couple of 25g protein shakes a day.
    [I know the answer from many of you is to eat even more. Frankly, the eating is harder than the lifting sometimes.]

I reset deads each rep. No medical issues. Pretty much standard accessory stuff. All other lifts are still going fine.
I’m just one of those weak bastards that needs to claw, fight, and bleed for every inch of progress and I’m gonna have days like this.

I think the best advice is to just shake it off and keep plowing ahead. I’m gonna pretend that never happened and then see where week 2 goes.
Oh yeah, I will try and eat even more…

I’m on cycle 5 of the Total Body 5/3/1. Weights for the upper body are starting to get heavy. I superset pullups in between everything and have been doing about 140 a week. Also doing a lot of dips.
Last couple of workouts, I’ve thrown in a rest pause set with 65% of my max just to see what happens.
Great program

[quote]Zaurus wrote:
Thanks for the advice guys.
Been a weak shlub all my life but working on changing that via 5/3/1.

I am the poster boy for Ectomorph. Tall and thin.
6 Feet 161 pounds. Don’t laugh. Started training 3 years ago. Put on 20 pounds of muscle since. HUGE for me considering I had been at more
[/quote]

Dude, you are SKINNY! EAT SOME GOD DAMN FOOD. :wink: Have a (big) protein shake with every meal, per a recommendation I saw from Wendler himself.

I imagine you eat like a bird. Knock that off and eat like a fucking bear.

You already know this, you yourself said it: “I know the answer from many of you is to eat even more. Frankly, the eating is harder than the lifting sometimes.”

Problem discovered. Now fix it. :wink:

I was so pissed today that as soon as I got home from work I just went downstairs to my home gym. Did a minimal warmup - in my work clothes - building up to 130KG with some doubles.

Then I pulled 130x5. Barely made the last rep as my back was screaming at me - but nothing was gonna stop me.

I know that’s not the fucking program.
I realize it was not the smartest idea in the world given I had just done deadlifts the night before.
And yes, my back is going to be crazy sore for the next few days.

But I needed to do it. I just needed to know I could handle that weight so I could progress further. I saw it becoming a mental block. I had to get back on that horse and kick its ass.

Now to start eating a ton…

[quote]Zaurus wrote:
I am the poster boy for Ectomorph. Tall and thin.
6 Feet 161 pounds. Don’t laugh. Started training 3 years ago. Put on 20 pounds of muscle since. HUGE for me considering I had been at more or less the same stupid skinny weight for the past 10+ years.

I know the answer is eat, eat, eat.
I have been eating more than I ever have in my life since starting the program. Even my wife commented how much more I eat these days.

  • a couple of 25g protein shakes a day.
    [I know the answer from many of you is to eat even more. Frankly, the eating is harder than the lifting sometimes.]
    Oh yeah, I will try and eat even more…

[/quote]

It’s actually not just as simple as eating more, but eating more of the right foods!

If you’re a hard gainer, make sure you eat CALORIE DENSE foods. Familiarize yourself with the nutritional value of the foods you eat.

Try substituting white meats for red meats. Less chicken/fish, more beef/steak. Whole Milk. Make friends with natural peanut butter —> 1 TBSP = 130 cals roughly with tons of protein and healthy fats. Use lots of oils when cooking and on your foods (olive oil and coconut oil), etc…

Most ppl who say they “eat alot” actually barely take in enough cals for the day. Track your typical diet to get an idea of how much you actually need to eat to take in 3k, 4k cals, etc…(if you’re not already)

Well, as the others have said, eat more. Ironfreak’s advice is good, especially when it gets hard to force food down. Also, don’t worry about it being hard, you get used to it over time. Lunch for me is now usually 500 grams of veges and 300 grams of meat. Wouldn’t have been able to do that a couple of years ago.

[quote]Zaurus wrote:
Pretty much standard accessory stuff. All other lifts are still going fine.
[/quote]

Still curious as what exactly your assistance work is and how the other lifts are. Given what you’re eating (or not) it might be that you need to cut back on the assistance if there’s too much to recover from compared to your food intake.

Keep plowing ahead brother, i started at 135 eight years ago and finally hit 200 a months back. I understand your pain, think of each as if it were your last.

I’m going to be running a very slight variation of 5/3/1 this summer for at least 3 months and if it feels like it is going well I’ll continue it for a full year. This is what I plan to do.

Bench Press
Assistance
Close Grip Bench 3x8~
Yates Row 3x8~
DB Yates Row 4x8~

Deadlift
Assistance
RDL 3x15~
Good Morning 3x8~
Hip Thrust 3x6~

Overhead Press
Assistance
Press of some kind??? Not sure what to do, maybe weighted dips
Pendlay Row 3x5
DB Yates Row 4x8

Back Squat
Assistance
Clean 5x3

Front Squat
Assistance
Clean 5x3

The only alteration is that I’m doing two squat sessions a week, each with lower volume than the standard 5/3/1 day.

The main focus of this time is to bring up my posterior chain strength. Anterior chain is relatively too strong, need to achieve balance.

Hi guys
First post here. And also a beginner in lifting. Been doing the Stronglifts program for eight months and am nearing the end of the progress I can make on it. Have been thinking about doing Wendler because lots of guys progress from stronglifts to it. Bought the book and the full body routine caught my eye. Ive been squatting three days per week anyway. I want to do a heavy (5/3/1), light, medium routine with the squats. Bench Press instead of the DB bench, because I need to work on the bench and don’t have dumbbells. Because of the latter I’ll do one arm barbell and meadows rows instead of DB rows. Superset the pressing with BW chinups for a total of 100 per week and some BW dips between the rowing. I’ll be rowing 6 times in the 3 weeks between deload and progressing from 3x10, 3x12, 3x14, … to 3x20 with the same weight adding 5 lbs every cycle.
It will look like this. What do you guys with 5/3/1 experience think? Does it need some ab, glute and/or hamstring work or do dome light stuff in the warmup?

Monday
Squat 5/3/1
Bench 10x40,50,60% + 5x7 Chinups
Meadows row 3x10-20 + 3x5 Dips

Wednesday
Squat 5x40,50,60%
Press 5/3/1 + 5x6 Chinups
Deadlift 5/3/1

Friday
Squat 3x65,75,85%
Bench 5/3/1 + 5x7 Chinups
Meadows row 3x10-20 + 3x5 Dips

Hi Guys,

First Post on this Thread, I am currently doing 5/3/1 with the BBB Template 4 days a week. It is currently Off-Season for Rugby over here for me so 4 days a week really helps increase my Strength and Size overall as In-Season I follow Jim’s 2 days a week routine which fits in very nicely and keeps me fit In-Season.

Monday:
Squat - 5/3/1
Squat - 5x10
Leg Curl - 5x10

Tuesday:
Bench - 5/3/1
Bench - 5x10
Kroc Rows - Warm up sets followed by all out set of around 20 - 30 reps.

Wednesday:
REST

Thursday:
Deadlift - 5/3/1
Deadlift - 5x10
Leg Raises - 5x10-15

Friday:
Press - 5/3/1
Press - 5x10
Pull-ups - 5x10-15

Saturday:
Running, Sprinting, Arm work or rest

Sunday:
REST

Now on all these days except rest I add cardio after weights which either consists of running or sprinting. I have only been following the 4 days a week program for one cycle now and my 5x10 have gotten so much better, I am easily using 65-70% of my training max for all the sets.
One question aswell is do you guys use a belt for the BBB work all do you leave the belt out?

Tom

Looks like a good plan to me. I would suggest doing BBB without a belt. I feel like most would agree with that.

Today was my last day on my modified BBB 3 month challenge. Very pleased with the results.

  1. Deadlift, Beltless:

465x5
530x3
590x1

  1. Squat, Beltless:

370x10x4 sets
405x10

  1. Abs: 6 sets

[quote]detazathoth wrote:
Today was my last day on my modified BBB 3 month challenge. Very pleased with the results.

  1. Deadlift, Beltless:

465x5
530x3
590x1

  1. Squat, Beltless:

370x10x4 sets
405x10

  1. Abs: 6 sets
    [/quote]
    Very nice! What were your lifts like before these 3 months?

[quote]OmniStyx wrote:

[quote]detazathoth wrote:
Today was my last day on my modified BBB 3 month challenge. Very pleased with the results.

  1. Deadlift, Beltless:

465x5
530x3
590x1

  1. Squat, Beltless:

370x10x4 sets
405x10

  1. Abs: 6 sets
    [/quote]
    Very nice! What were your lifts like before these 3 months?[/quote]

Well I did the Challenge in 2 months

Instead of doing 50%/60%/70% in 3 months, I did 3 months of work in 2 months as follows:

Month 1: Week 1: 50%, Week 2: 55% Week 3: 60% Week 4 Deload

Added 5lbs to my Upper Lifts and 10lbs to my Lower Lifts

Month 2: Week 1: 60%, Week 2: 65% Week 3: 70% Week 4 Deload

I felt that this set up made the BBB work less boring and made it so I felt like I was progressing every week.

Lift Results
Squat: 250 5x10 to 370 4x10, 405x10 - all beltless
Bench: 185 5x10 to 260 5x10
Deadlift: 315 5x10 to 435 5x10 - all beltless
OHP: 115 5x10 to 160 5x10

*The squats were walked out with Oly shoes (I use a monolift and Chuck Taylor’s when I compete/go heavy)

Just posted my routine in a previous post, I have just read this article: 7 Movements For Mass and it has made me thing about adding Push Press, Face Pulls and Power Shrugs into my next cycle which is next week. Anyone have a say, also how would be the best way to incorporate them, for example replacing 5x10 Press with 5x10 Push Press, but how could I incorporate the other two?

Tom

Do your power shrugs after deadlifts. When I was doing them I’d just do one heavy top set of 5-10 reps at most. You could do the heavy facepulls on bench day. Your routine posted earlier looks fine though, so if you’re still making gains don’t change just because. K.I.S.S.

Thankyou Mouse, I am definitely making some good gains since starting this program, even more so with the BBB Template. I might give give it a shot fitting them in but Ill see how it goes.

Tom