I started aiming for 100 chins per week this cycle but only managed 40 this week. I’ll try to hit 100 next week. Most I had ever done in the past in one day was 4 sets of 5 but those were weighted. I’m doing sets with 6-8 reps now so I only need to get about 8 sets on MP day and 8 sets on bench day. Like BlakedaMan, I will aim to decrease the number of sets needed to hit 100 and eventually start adding weight.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Not sure I see much of a problem here but I am kind of confused by the numbers you gave. On cycle 1 what was your weight x reps for your 1+ set of bench on the last week. Also give the same for your most recent cycle.[/quote]
It’s not a big problem, but the progress is just a lot slower than it is for the other lifts.
Cycle 1, week 3 - 187 pounds (85 kilos) x 3
Cycle 3, week 11 - 198 pounds (90 kilos) x 4
I haven’t done the other lifts in week 11 yet, but I fully expect to have rep difference of at least 3 on the deadlift. Bloody hell, since I can only increase weights by at least 2.5kg each cycle, I’ve been increasing my military press that fast, and I’m expecting a 2-rep difference between cycles 1 and 3!
[quote]seth.ewan wrote:
there is a difference between touch and go and bouncing. you just havent found the method that works best for you. i have a buggy shoulder from an old football injury and i just always bench off a 1 board. that has helped me tremendously. the problem is most people allow the bar to drop the last inch on touch/go instead of staying tight and all the way. the best way i found was to just use a bar and practice staying tight all the way down to the chest instead of relaxing and letting it drop/bounce/catch/press like i used to and most people do.
food for thought…when you take just the barbell and bring it down to your chest do you find it stops 1-2inches above your chest and you have to pull it down or relax to get it to touch? if the bar does stop short then you are probably relaxing to let it come all the way down instead of pulling it down. if you relax the probability of injury is higher then pulling it down; which keeps you in tighter position.
[/quote]
Thank you very much for the input. I will try these tests with just the barbell and figure this out. I always thought that the “pulling” was more applicable to suited lifters, and that raw guys should focus on lowering under control as opposed to pulling.
Anyone know a place where I can check out some templates that other folks are using for the accessory work? Obviously I seen the ones in the book, but was wondering what sort of customizations others have made. I searched around a bit (including the logs) but didn’t see much outside of the ones listed in the book. Thanks.
[quote]Embrau wrote:
Anyone know a place where I can check out some templates that other folks are using for the accessory work? Obviously I seen the ones in the book, but was wondering what sort of customizations others have made. I searched around a bit (including the logs) but didn’t see much outside of the ones listed in the book. Thanks.[/quote]
P.59 5/3/1 manual
5-3-1 you have the book, so you know what to do, do whatever assistance work/template you feel is appropriate, do not ask, just do it!
Obviously there many template , find the exercices that works for you and help you getting stronger, experiment work hard and repeat…and if you find something magic for assistance, please let us know!!!
[quote]Embrau wrote:
Anyone know a place where I can check out some templates that other folks are using for the accessory work? Obviously I seen the ones in the book, but was wondering what sort of customizations others have made. I searched around a bit (including the logs) but didn’t see much outside of the ones listed in the book. Thanks.[/quote]
I use the WS4SB template. I do 5/3/1 for the lifts though just like Joe D. reccomended.
Here’s what Joe D prescribed: (Note: the days are to fit my own schedule and they are not fixed so plan them according to when you’re free.
Monday – DE Lower (You can put the Deadlift here but then I want to dedicate a day to jump training and more accessory work)
Tuesday-- ME Upper (Bench + Military – Do the lift you want to improve more first and then rest of the template)
Wednesday-- Conditioning/Rest
Thursday-- RE Upper (Some more repetition work)
Friday-- ME Lower (Squat + Deadlift)
Saturday-- Conditioning
Sunday- REST
After squatting and deadlifting on Friday, I cut out the single leg work because usually my legs are fried and I don’t feel like doing anymore of that will benefit me so I leave the single leg work for DE day. I do however, do some leg curls/back raises/good mornings for some posterior chain work (usually quite light) on ME Day.
Hope this helps.
[quote]G87 wrote:
It’s not a big problem, but the progress is just a lot slower than it is for the other lifts.
Cycle 1, week 3 - 187 pounds (85 kilos) x 3
Cycle 3, week 11 - 198 pounds (90 kilos) x 4
[/quote]
Looks like you’ve added ~15-20 lbs in 8 weeks. That is pretty solid progress! I wouldn’t change a thing if I were you… just keep doing what you are doing.
[quote]Airness wrote:
Embrau wrote:
Anyone know a place where I can check out some templates that other folks are using for the accessory work? Obviously I seen the ones in the book, but was wondering what sort of customizations others have made. I searched around a bit (including the logs) but didn’t see much outside of the ones listed in the book. Thanks.
I use the WS4SB template. I do 5/3/1 for the lifts though just like Joe D. reccomended.
Here’s what Joe D prescribed: (Note: the days are to fit my own schedule and they are not fixed so plan them according to when you’re free.
Monday – DE Lower (You can put the Deadlift here but then I want to dedicate a day to jump training and more accessory work)
Tuesday-- ME Upper (Bench + Military – Do the lift you want to improve more first and then rest of the template)
Wednesday-- Conditioning/Rest
Thursday-- RE Upper (Some more repetition work)
Friday-- ME Lower (Squat + Deadlift)
Saturday-- Conditioning
Sunday- REST
After squatting and deadlifting on Friday, I cut out the single leg work because usually my legs are fried and I don’t feel like doing anymore of that will benefit me so I leave the single leg work for DE day. I do however, do some leg curls/back raises/good mornings for some posterior chain work (usually quite light) on ME Day.
Hope this helps.[/quote]
I did something similar in the past, but not with great success, i think after all, your better to dedicate one day for each lift, if you wanna do a upper/lower similar to Joe Defranco template , try the periodization bible template…that what i think after 14cycles of 5/3/1!!!
[quote]crankMAN wrote:
Airness wrote:
Embrau wrote:
Anyone know a place where I can check out some templates that other folks are using for the accessory work? Obviously I seen the ones in the book, but was wondering what sort of customizations others have made. I searched around a bit (including the logs) but didn’t see much outside of the ones listed in the book. Thanks.
I use the WS4SB template. I do 5/3/1 for the lifts though just like Joe D. reccomended.
Here’s what Joe D prescribed: (Note: the days are to fit my own schedule and they are not fixed so plan them according to when you’re free.
Monday – DE Lower (You can put the Deadlift here but then I want to dedicate a day to jump training and more accessory work)
Tuesday-- ME Upper (Bench + Military – Do the lift you want to improve more first and then rest of the template)
Wednesday-- Conditioning/Rest
Thursday-- RE Upper (Some more repetition work)
Friday-- ME Lower (Squat + Deadlift)
Saturday-- Conditioning
Sunday- REST
After squatting and deadlifting on Friday, I cut out the single leg work because usually my legs are fried and I don’t feel like doing anymore of that will benefit me so I leave the single leg work for DE day. I do however, do some leg curls/back raises/good mornings for some posterior chain work (usually quite light) on ME Day.
Hope this helps.
I did something similar in the past, but not with great success, i think after all, your better to dedicate one day for each lift, if you wanna do a upper/lower similar to Joe Defranco template , try the periodization bible template…that what i think after 14cycles of 5/3/1!!![/quote]
I think your suggestion would fit someone who trains more like a powerlifter. I understand what you mean though. However, what you and I are doing (or did) allows us to have another day which is for jump training and rep work. Although it probably isn’t that big of a deal if you did the Military Press on the RE day BEFORE the repetition lift. Nothing’s set in stone really, there’s no perfect way to train.
To Embrau:
If you want, try the WS4SB template with 5/3/1. Although what crankMAN suggested (Periodization bible) is excellent too!
YAAQ or Yet Another Assistance Question:
I just finished my last workout of second 5/3/1 cycle. For these two cycles I have used BBB assistance work, and I feel like switching my squat assistance work a bit.
Squat assistance:
Box squat 2x10
Bulgarian split squat 3x10
Leg curl 5x10
I feel I need to add box squats as a way to help me relearn sitting back for a PL-style squat. Bulgarian split squats seem to have worked for me before, and less load is easier for my little spine.
There are no GHR machines in this lousy country, and in the past I’ve done leg curls. I’m not sure if I should switch them for another exercise (RDL, GM, Pull-through)?
Is my reasoning for changing the squat exercises correct?
[quote]Embrau wrote:
Anyone know a place where I can check out some templates that other folks are using for the accessory work? Obviously I seen the ones in the book, but was wondering what sort of customizations others have made. I searched around a bit (including the logs) but didn’t see much outside of the ones listed in the book. Thanks.[/quote]
Here is a template that i’m doing now. The squat and dead day is pretty much the BBB or triumvate with calf work added. In the bench and military days i’m doing something based on Cosgrove articles.
Squat
A-Front Squat 5/3/1
B-Front Squat 5x10 or 1high rep set or Leg Press
C-Some kind of Leg curl or natural GHR
D-Leg Press Calf
Military
A1-Military 5/3/1
A2-Pullup 5/3/1
B1-DB Bench
B2-Rope row to neck or Face Pull
C1-Dips
C2-BB Curl
Deads
A-Deadlift 5/3/1
B-RDL 5x10 or work up to x10-12(heavier) or Goodmorning 5x10
C-1legSquat
D-Seated Calf
Bench
A1-Bench 5/3/1
A2-DB Row work up to a high rep set(sometimes with straps)
B1-DB Military or Seated Press
B2-Pullups/chins (bw only)
C1-Floor extensions or pushdowns
C2-Hammer Curl (i´ll try pinwheel curls here too)
im really interested in this program. the only questions i have are:
- can i have my main lift for milt press day day be weighted chins followed my milt press, instead of the other way around?
- can my conditioning be sandbag work and/or box jumps? (or would that not work good with trying to be 100 percent for deads and squats?)
thanks guys, i really want to make some good progress and get on a program. hope u can help me out here
[quote]quiksilver6 wrote:
im really interested in this program. the only questions i have are:
- can i have my main lift for milt press day day be weighted chins followed my milt press, instead of the other way around?
- can my conditioning be sandbag work and/or box jumps? (or would that not work good with trying to be 100 percent for deads and squats?)
thanks guys, i really want to make some good progress and get on a program. hope u can help me out here[/quote]
The program is pretty flexible when it comes to assistance exercises but you’re deviating quite a bit from it when you start substituting the main lifts. You really can’t compare the benefits of overhead presses to weighted chins.
[quote]quiksilver6 wrote:
im really interested in this program. the only questions i have are:
- can i have my main lift for milt press day day be weighted chins followed my milt press, instead of the other way around?
- can my conditioning be sandbag work and/or box jumps? (or would that not work good with trying to be 100 percent for deads and squats?)
thanks guys, i really want to make some good progress and get on a program. hope u can help me out here[/quote]
Do you want to have MP 5/3/1 too or something else (ex:5x10,etc)? I’ve seen some guys doing MP 5/3/1 followed up with 5/3/1 Pull Ups with good results. I would keep MP up in front though.
Use the search function over at elitefts.com in the Q&A section, theres a lot of questions pertaining to pull ups.
i see what you guys are saying. basically the reason why i wanted to move weighted chins up to 1st was just because i want to progress a lot with it. at the same time tho, my MP is my weakest out of all my big lifts, so i guess i should just be patient and stick to the program.
[quote]quiksilver6 wrote:
i see what you guys are saying. basically the reason why i wanted to move weighted chins up to 1st was just because i want to progress a lot with it. at the same time tho, my MP is my weakest out of all my big lifts, so i guess i should just be patient and stick to the program.
[/quote]
Shoot - just try to get 50 bodyweight chins as part of your accessory work, that’s part of the program…
[quote]quiksilver6 wrote:
2. can my conditioning be sandbag work and/or box jumps? (or would that not work good with trying to be 100 percent for deads and squats?)
[/quote]
That should be fine, but it depends on how much, how often, and when. If you do a few sets of box jumps as speed work before squats and deads and some sandbag work for conditioning after those, then you should be able to recover before the next time. Personally, I adjust my conditioning through the week to avoid interference with my lifts, but there is no particular form of conditioning that I avoid all together.
Two general things to remember:
A) Jim advocates ordering your workout Speed, Strength, Conditioning
B) You may have to toy around with it to see what you personally can recover from. If you find your squats and deads suffering, then back off or try to change the conditioning work. If you are getting stronger and able to lift at full capacity, then you can consider increasing the duration, intensity or frequency of conditioning work. Overall, figure out what is most important to you (strength or conditioning) and focus on that, then adjust the other work to improving/maintaining as best you can without interfering with the primary focus.
I’ll be doing speed work for the first time tomorrow. I am also going for 50 chins. I’m doing MP tomorrow and will be going for 50 chins. I think I install hooks from the garage ceiling to hold my gymnast rings and do the chins with those.
I have yet to perfect a muscle-up with the rings but I want to eventually do those. Has anybody here here done muscle-ups?
I mentioned earlier that I don’t think I could work chins in between push exercises as Jim suggests but that was when the push exercise was a main lift. In retrospect, I think Jim meant push exercises done as assistance. I’ll try working chins in then since this cycle I am doing BBB.
For the pullups is it OK to use different grip variations and widths for each set? Or should I keep it the same for the current session I am doing and then mix it up on the next upper body day.
Also once I can’t pull myself up to the bar anymore I have been jumping up to the bar and concentrating on the negative part of the pullup to get more reps in to 50. Is this a good idea?
[quote]dolarhyde wrote:
For the pullups is it OK to use different grip variations and widths for each set? Or should I keep it the same for the current session I am doing and then mix it up on the next upper body day.
Also once I can’t pull myself up to the bar anymore I have been jumping up to the bar and concentrating on the negative part of the pullup to get more reps in to 50. Is this a good idea?[/quote]
both are just fine
I switch my pulls and chins all the time - changing grip, adding weight, going for reps … it’s all good in the end.
[quote]G87 wrote:
Hey, all. Long post, so thanks in advance for braving it!
First of all, thanks to everyone who contributes to these threads. I can’t even remember all the people who’ve given me good advice in this forum, and the bodybuilding one (CC in particular) on making 5-3-1 work for me.
…
Is there anything else I can do to boost my bench progress on this program in the long run? I don’t know how much point there is in doing isolation chest work; don’t think there is much at all, to be honest!
[\quote]
Give this a read over, might be missing something in your setup: Strength Training, Bodybuilding & Online Supplement Store - T NATION
Now to return the favor - was there a specific thread where CC was doling out 5/3/1 advice?