[quote]kaeosali wrote:
…I ask who you are to see if you have any real world experience other than “internet forum” experience. If you did I might listen to some of your advice, if you�??re a kid why would I?
[/quote]
You are so full of shit. If that were the case, then you would listen to CT who has tons more experience than you.
Hmm.
Dig big hole.
Hit bottom.
Keep digging.
Is this part of the CSCS certification programme?
Kindly take your advertising material elsewhere. You got called out, totally overreacted, started slagging off a respected individual and then started arguing about every little thing anyone said.
Do yourself and what is left of your credibility a favour and begone Chaos Ali.
[quote]kaeosali wrote:
I’m gonna let this die. [/quote]
The trouble with making Drama Queen Pronouncements is that the Queen seldom can back it up.
[quote]kaeosali wrote:
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[quote]kaeosali wrote:
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[quote]kaeosali wrote:
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[quote]kaeosali wrote:
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[quote]kaeosali wrote:
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See?
Judging by your behavior here, I bet you determine your client’s bodyfat% by having them hold up a shoe.
There are only two things to say about this thread:
Work on your clients’ form. It’s good to see women doing these movements, when they do them right.
Tube Steak Boogie.
Guys we acknowledged that our clients in the video did not have perfect form, and that we are working with them to correct some issues. There are some minor issues to correct, but to say that we don�??t know that we are doing, and that we are hurting our clients is absurd. I appreciate Thib taking time out and critiquing the video, but when he starts to question the intelligence of the trainers, that simply is unfair. For whatever reason, Thib decided to nitpick about every single issue he could find, and now everyone is jumping on his bandwagon and bashing us. It is unfair to criticize our client�??s techniques so harshly if you are not in this industry.
Like AliKaeos said, if you are in the business of training (average) people of all ages, they are not concerned with 100 % correct form. They are never going to be competing. All they care about is getting stronger for daily activates, living healthier and looking good. So we must draw that line between progress, and technique. How much success is a business going to have when all the trainers work on is form? To perform an exercise perfectly takes a long time. People want results immediately. If all we focused our attention was technique, even for a few weeks, clients will not see progress, and will get bored, frustrated and leave. Bottom line, we load weights that will elicit a positive response in the body, and when technique can be performed safely, not perfect. If we feel an exercise cannot be performed safely, we lower the weight and work from there.
Just because Thib ripped us does not mean that what he says is 100 % accurate, but it looked like everyone else started to follow his lead anyway. I respect Thib as an author, and I know he knows his stuff, but just because an author says something or believes something, does not mean he is undoubtedly correct. Is our coaching really bad enough to cause people to instruct us to burn in hell? Come on.
[quote]numberonebg wrote:
Guys we acknowledged that our clients in the video did not have perfect form, and that we are working with them to correct some issues. There are some minor issues to correct, but to say that we don�??t know that we are doing, and that we are hurting our clients is absurd.
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You have your clients doing squats with poor form with 135lbs or more on their back and you think these allegations are absurd?
fine, I am in this industry, with a degree in Exercise Science.
while the pull-ups even though not great form, not much risk of injury there, and yes even bad form I think that’s pretty good work from the girls.
the squats need a lot of work, and the DLs are just dreadful.
lumbar rounding, neck hyperextension.
You don’t work on form by going “heavy”.
You work on form through proper progression.
I know it’s tough to have posted a video on here not expecting the replies you got. But, again don’t take it personal.
CT nor I have said you guys are idiots, rather we pointed out flaws in the technique, and flaws in your teaching process.
again, it’s always about the client.
if you’re worried about wasting too much time on good form, then do easier to learn exercises, rather than ones that take a lot of technique.
You’d be surprised how much easier people can learn a squat with DBs by their side, or held at shoulder level
he said less than perfect form. You saw the perfect squat from on Olympian with 580+ lbs doing the samethings you are calling us out on.
[quote]DanErickson wrote:
I noticed he does the whole tail under thing. [/quote]
[quote]numberonebg wrote:
Just because Thib ripped us does not mean that what he says is 100 % accurate, but it looked like everyone else started to follow his lead anyway. I respect Thib as an author, and I know he knows his stuff, but just because an author says something or believes something, does not mean he is undoubtedly correct. Is our coaching really bad enough to cause people to instruct us to burn in hell? Come on.
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I never said that the coaching was bad. I specifically criticized the form used in the video. I even mentioned later that I’m sure you guys get results.
I think that the problem occurred when you guys took the comments personally and started to act defensively and attack people, me included. I think that it is not so much the bad form used that caused the problem and the negativity but rather your attitude.
I tried to be as objective as I could. It was not my intention to be harsh. I do admit that one or two of my comments that were not related to the from being used might have been somewhat excessive, but the bulk of my posts was still an objective critique of the lifting form being used.
I also DO NOT agree about ordinary folks not needing to focus on perfect form as much as athletes. If anything it is the opposite! Elite athletes normally have built a stronger structure, and because of the nature of their sport, they are used to handling external forces coming from different directions and resisting them from various and even unsafe positions. So in that regard an athlete’s body is better equipped to deal with improper from (not that we should accept it). However ordinary folks, especially those who are more sedentary do not have that same capacity and are thus more prone to being injured from doing faulty movements patterns.
Rarely will you see a pro athlete get injured lifting a box from the floor, but it’s something that will occur often with average folks.
So it is my opinion that perfect lifting form should be emphasized even more with average Joes and Josephines.
PLUS the athlete has a limited time frame to train: depending on his sport the off-season period is fairly short. Not to mention that the early off-season is often used to recover from the aches and pains of the season. So when it comes down to it, you often have around 10-12 weeks to get these guys as strong as possible. While you can, and should spend time making sure that they are using proper technique, you can’t waste much time.
However with average folks you do not have that limitation. They do not have a training camp to peak for, they do not have to get ready for a season. Since they do not have a set time frame to improve they do have the luxury of spending more time mastering proper lifting technique instead of jumping into max lifting right away even if form is not solidified.
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
fine, I am in this industry, with a degree in Exercise Science.
while the pull-ups even though not great form, not much risk of injury there, and yes even bad form I think that’s pretty good work from the girls.
the squats need a lot of work, and the DLs are just dreadful.
lumbar rounding, neck hyperextension.
You don’t work on form by going “heavy”.
You work on form through proper progression.
I know it’s tough to have posted a video on here not expecting the replies you got. But, again don’t take it personal.
CT nor I have said you guys are idiots, rather we pointed out flaws in the technique, and flaws in your teaching process.
again, it’s always about the client.
if you’re worried about wasting too much time on good form, then do easier to learn exercises, rather than ones that take a lot of technique.
You’d be surprised how much easier people can learn a squat with DBs by their side, or held at shoulder level[/quote]
Sometimes I feel like we are the only ones on here who own a digital camera with a recording feature.
Definition: Hyperextension is a straightening movement that goes beyond the normal, healthy boundaries of the joint.
The picture on the left is neck extension on the right is hyperextension.
Please point out one of the deadlifts where a girls teeth were facing the ceiling
[quote]kaeosali wrote:
he said less than perfect form. You saw the perfect squat from on Olympian with 580+ lbs doing the samethings you are calling us out on.
DanErickson wrote:
I noticed he does the whole tail under thing.
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It is somewhat of a moot point. There are plenty of NFL running backs with bad running technique; it doesn’t mean that we don’t need to work on proper running technique with our clients. Just because a top athlete does something wrong doesn’t justify not attempting to reach perfect form with out clients.
I have competed for years as an Olympic lifter; trained with several world class lifters, Olympic and world champs medalists, and during contests there is some bad form happening. Heck, I’ve even seen a lifter hold a overhead lift while walking in a circle on the platform trying to stabilize the lift!!!
The thing is that under contest conditions a lifter will try by every mean necessary to hold on to the lift… which is why there is a lot more injuries occurring during competitions than during training even though training time exceeds competition time 100 folds!
Dude this kaeosali fucker sucks. Shut the fuck up. Take some advice. The video is painful to watch on the deadlift parts. Is it that hard to take criticism you ignorant shit.
Edit: I should not have said ignorant, I mean uninformed in the ways of technical lifts.
[quote]kaeosali wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
fine, I am in this industry, with a degree in Exercise Science.
while the pull-ups even though not great form, not much risk of injury there, and yes even bad form I think that’s pretty good work from the girls.
the squats need a lot of work, and the DLs are just dreadful.
lumbar rounding, neck hyperextension.
You don’t work on form by going “heavy”.
You work on form through proper progression.
I know it’s tough to have posted a video on here not expecting the replies you got. But, again don’t take it personal.
CT nor I have said you guys are idiots, rather we pointed out flaws in the technique, and flaws in your teaching process.
again, it’s always about the client.
if you’re worried about wasting too much time on good form, then do easier to learn exercises, rather than ones that take a lot of technique.
You’d be surprised how much easier people can learn a squat with DBs by their side, or held at shoulder level
Sometimes I feel like we are the only ones on here who own a digital camera with a recording feature.
Definition: Hyperextension is a straightening movement that goes beyond the normal, healthy boundaries of the joint.
The picture on the left is neck extension on the right is hyperextension.
Please point out one of the deadlifts where a girls teeth were facing the ceiling
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The neck hyperextension is probably the least problematic aspect that we pointed out. Heck, in some lifting texts it is even RECOMMENDED to use a neck hyperextesion to lift… the reason is that neck hyperextension leads to a reflexive overactivation of the upper body limb extensors (mainly triceps, but also shoulders and traps in some context) as well as glutes andcalves.
The opposite position (head down) leads to a reflexive overactivation of the lower body extensors (mostly quads). That’s why some olympic lifters are now doing the first phase of the pull (from floor to just above the knees) looking slightly downward and hyperextend during the second phase of the pull (explosive pull).
The biggest issue is more the rounding of the lower back in the deadlift, the early hips rise on the same lift, the tail under position and the forward lean on the squat.
YES powerlifters often squat with a forward lean, but the lifting suit favors such lifting technique.
[quote]kaeosali wrote:
Please point out one of the deadlifts where a girls teeth were facing the ceiling
[/quote]
It’s not about facing the ceiling, but rather the angle of the neck compared to the spine.
Compare… the drawing your posted to the screen caps below.
BTW… as I mentioned, the neck extension is the least problematic thing, but you did ask us to show you an example.
Compared to this… pretty similar cervical angle.
First one
Second one
If anything, the cervical angle is more pronounced than in the drawing.
Interesting points CT, see there’s always room to learn.
But Ali, your arrogance was really shown in your picture example, and lack of knowledge.
You kaeos guys have been completely owned by CT. When you read his posts and your posts, it’s obvious that he is at a level way beyond you.
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Interesting points CT, see there’s always room to learn.
But Ali, your arrogance was really shown in your picture example, and lack of knowledge.[/quote]
I still want to point out that the degree of neck extension is the smallest problem. And the thing is that many coaches who are of decent size cannot even reach the hyperextended position voluntarily because of upper traps mass.
This might be why some powerlifters who coach females show them to hyperextend because they (the male powerlifters) extend the neck as much as possible, which is still far from being an hyperextension. So they advise their females to extent the neck as much as possible; which is fine for a bulky powerlifter who can reach maybe 1/2 of a true hyperextension but not for a female who has a much greater range of motion.
And yes, some elite Olympic liters (mostly those using the old russian lifting technique) do hyperextend their neck during the first pull, but more and more lifters are keeping a more neutral spine.