Squat/DL Variations to Avoid Low Back Pain?

Training Powerlifting
1

I have been thinking about this for a while, and wanted to get others opinions.

Currently i have a best of 435/510 sq/dead, and have every intention of improving these throughout the course of the next few years. However, I keep worrying about one thing when it comes to heavy lifting- lower back safety.

It seems my lower back is more often than not in a state of some form of soreness. After I deadlift, my back is sore for 2-3 days after. Squatting? Not so much, but I typically go into my squat session with a semi sore lower back from the previous deadlift session.

Currently I am running 5/3/1.

Now here is my question. Say someone were to forgo back squats and conventional deadlifts for an entire year, and instead of doing them, focused their efforts on the front squat and trap bar deadlift. If I got my front squat as strong as possible, my trap bar deadlift as strong as possible, as well as worked up to heavy weighted GHR’s and heavy ab work, would I expect to see an instant rise in my back squat and conventional deadlift?

At the age of 28, I love to power lift and do hill sprints and all that stuff, but I also don’t want to blow out my back before the age of 30 (or ever for that matter). Being honest with myself and you all, my goals for squats and deads would probably be around the range of 495 squat and 550-585 deadlift. I know some might say you need to be back squatting and conventional deadlifting only to improve, but I have to imagine if I worked my front squat up to 405, hex bar up to the low 500’s, and got hella strong on ghr’s and core work, that I could go to a powerlifting meet with only a couple weeks sharpening up my back squat and conventional dead and see progress.

Does anyone else train this way? Like I said, I just want to be safe and don’t want to have to deal with unnecessary injuries.

2

When I slack off on my ab work, my low back pays the price. For me, doing Landmines is awesomly brutal. And I add in the MGGill 3.

3

I’m not a big deadlifter by any means in comparison to some - but I had similar issues. I stopped training deads altogether. No lower back work or leg work for 3 months. Got 4 weeks out from a meet and started to train the deadlift. Hit a 17lb competition PR (451) pulling no heavier than 385x1 in the gym in preparation for it.

If the deadlift and squat are taxing for you like they are for me, find a way to train one or the other or alternate them every other week. Keep the sets and reps really low and try not to train any other lift that would work the lower back and see how you feel. Slowly add things back in but taking some time off in those two lifts isn’t gonna affect you as much as taking time off in the bench.

Make sure you have good form as well.

This seems to work for me - but everyone is different.

4

I do not train in the way you thought of, but I do not use squats and deads to build my squat and dead. I use range of motion progression training, using heavy partial ROM movements that gradually progress to the full ROM before starting the cycle over again. I found this to be much more beneficial to back/hamstring pain issues, as you spend little time in the ROM that aggravates previous injuries while loading up the muscles with very heavy weight and getting it used to handle heavy loads.

Personally, instead of using different movements in a full ROM, I would use the same movements in a reduced ROM.

5

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
I do not train in the way you thought of, but I do not use squats and deads to build my squat and dead. I use range of motion progression training, using heavy partial ROM movements that gradually progress to the full ROM before starting the cycle over again. I found this to be much more beneficial to back/hamstring pain issues, as you spend little time in the ROM that aggravates previous injuries while loading up the muscles with very heavy weight and getting it used to handle heavy loads.

Personally, instead of using different movements in a full ROM, I would use the same movements in a reduced ROM.[/quote]

T3, I saw your post on deads for this, but you do it for squat too?

6

[quote]TheKraken wrote:
T3, I saw your post on deads for this, but you do it for squat too? [/quote]

I do it for squats, deads, bench and overhead press. For the squats, bench and press, I suspended the bar in the rack using chains.

7

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]TheKraken wrote:
T3, I saw your post on deads for this, but you do it for squat too? [/quote]

I do it for squats, deads, bench and overhead press. For the squats, bench and press, I suspended the bar in the rack using chains.[/quote]

I don’t have straps or chains but the pins might work. I’ve been struggling with squats all year, I can see this help a lot.

8

[quote]TheKraken wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]TheKraken wrote:
T3, I saw your post on deads for this, but you do it for squat too? [/quote]

I do it for squats, deads, bench and overhead press. For the squats, bench and press, I suspended the bar in the rack using chains.[/quote]

I don’t have straps or chains but the pins might work. I’ve been struggling with squats all year, I can see this help a lot. [/quote]

I can’t imagine pins would work. The chains are pretty vital, because you need to be able to get your hips set up correctly under the bar to squat, which requires your ability to move the bar through space during set-up. You can see me accomplish it here.

With pins, you move your body around the bar, rather than the other way around. Additionally, you’re really only going to be good for one rep unless you have incredible control over the bar, because when it makes contact with the pins, it tends to shake and move around, whereas chains tend to absorb the impact.

Getting straps and/or chains is a much better option in my opinion. Spud makes some decent stuff, or you can always just buy some towing straps. If they can tow a car, they can handle a lift.

Also, TC, instead of hammering the GHR, I would focus on the reverse hyper. Your hamstrings aren’t going to get nearly as neglected as your lower back with this approach, and the reverse hyper would be a great way to still hammer those muscles without putting a lot of strain on it.

9

Not really pins, but the safety bars on the rack. I train at a gold’s that just tolerates PL’n, so I’m not sure how they’d like me setting up straps to their curling ravks, but I think I’ll investigate.

10

[quote]TheKraken wrote:
Not really pins, but the safety bars on the rack. I train at a gold’s that just tolerates PL’n, so I’m not sure how they’d like me setting up straps to their curling ravks, but I think I’ll investigate. [/quote]

Definitely give it a look. As long as it’s just straps, I can’t imagine it would go over poorly. It would just look like TRX.

11

What I would do if I were that worried about it is far from the meet, start out doing joint friendly variations and underload methods like SSB squats, front squats, and hex bar pulls. Maybe even do box squats with these variations to further underload the exercises and reduce back strain. Even you don’t want to box squat to get better at squatting it works the deadlift muscles pretty well. Be sure to throw in some accessories to work your P-chain hard and whatever else weaknesses you have. And as you get closer to the meet, start choosing variations with more load and more specific until a couple to a few weeks out you’re actually practicing the comp lifts.

It’s actually what I’m doing right now following Westside principles and we have similar lifts and are about the same age. It seems to be a lot healthier for my joints than only doing the comp lifts week in week out while still being able to train hard and make consistent gains.

12

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
I do not train in the way you thought of, but I do not use squats and deads to build my squat and dead. I use range of motion progression training, using heavy partial ROM movements that gradually progress to the full ROM before starting the cycle over again. I found this to be much more beneficial to back/hamstring pain issues, as you spend little time in the ROM that aggravates previous injuries while loading up the muscles with very heavy weight and getting it used to handle heavy loads.

Personally, instead of using different movements in a full ROM, I would use the same movements in a reduced ROM.[/quote]

You know, I have had tremendous success using partial ROM like this and working my way down to “legit” ROMs. I quit doing it becuse of all the buzz such as the “rack deads do shit” crowds, squat dept nazi’s shaming fuckers and the “raw only zealots” influence on the sport in general. SUre pulling 600# form 18" may not do shit for my off the floor speed / strength but it makde my upper back bulletproof so squatting heavy was easy and benching was easier… might have to reevaluate my situation and get back to having fun again in training. sorry to jack the thread.

13

[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
You know, I have had tremendous success using partial ROM like this and working my way down to “legit” ROMs. I quit doing it becuse of all the buzz such as the “rack deads do shit” crowds, squat dept nazi’s shaming fuckers and the “raw only zealots” influence on the sport in general. SUre pulling 600# form 18" may not do shit for my off the floor speed / strength but it makde my upper back bulletproof so squatting heavy was easy and benching was easier… might have to reevaluate my situation and get back to having fun again in training. sorry to jack the thread. [/quote]

Something my grandfather taught me was “Look at what 90% of the population is doing and do the opposite”. It definitely does require you to tune out the majority of the things you hear/read, but I have found it really pays off. If you go back to this, I hope it works out for you. The biggest problem I have with it is that it works too well, and whenever I read about a sexy new training program, I can’t convince myself to abandon what I’m doing to give it a try, haha.

14

You have shitty form. Excessive lower back soreness from squats and/or deadlifts implies lifting heavy weights with a rounded lower back, which implies shitty form. Fix it and you will not have to resort to some stupid workaround.

It’s disappointing that nobody mentioned this earlier.

15

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
You have shitty form. Excesive back soreness from squats and/or deadlifts implies lifting heavy weights with a rounded lower back, which implies shitty form. Fix it and you will not have to resort to some stupid workaround.

It’s disappointing that nobody mentioned this earlier.[/quote]

Is everything alright man? This seemed needlessly abbrassive.

16

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
You have shitty form. Excesive back soreness from squats and/or deadlifts implies lifting heavy weights with a rounded lower back, which implies shitty form. Fix it and you will not have to resort to some stupid workaround.

It’s disappointing that nobody mentioned this earlier.[/quote]

Is everything alright man? This seemed needlessly abbrassive.[/quote]
You must not read his other posts hahaha!

17

Yea, I kinda mentioned for him to make sure his form is good in my post above as well. But, I don’t take the time to read everyone’s posts either so it’s not that big of a deal.

18

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
You have shitty form. Excesive back soreness from squats and/or deadlifts implies lifting heavy weights with a rounded lower back, which implies shitty form. Fix it and you will not have to resort to some stupid workaround.

It’s disappointing that nobody mentioned this earlier.[/quote]

Is everything alright man? This seemed needlessly abbrassive.[/quote]

Well, I’m just getting annoyed by the quality of information on the whole forum incl. this sub-forum. Contemplating leaving this site for good, but haven’t pulled the trigger yet.

19

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
You have shitty form. Excesive back soreness from squats and/or deadlifts implies lifting heavy weights with a rounded lower back, which implies shitty form. Fix it and you will not have to resort to some stupid workaround.

It’s disappointing that nobody mentioned this earlier.[/quote]

Is everything alright man? This seemed needlessly abbrassive.[/quote]

Well, I’m just getting annoyed by the quality of information on the whole forum incl. this sub-forum. Contemplating leaving this site for good, but haven’t pulled the trigger yet.[/quote]

That’s definitely an option. I am doing my best to share my experiences and what has worked for me in order to attempt to better this place as well. I don’t think I have all the answers, but I figure its a good place to share.

20

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
You have shitty form. Excesive back soreness from squats and/or deadlifts implies lifting heavy weights with a rounded lower back, which implies shitty form. Fix it and you will not have to resort to some stupid workaround.

It’s disappointing that nobody mentioned this earlier.[/quote]

Is everything alright man? This seemed needlessly abbrassive.[/quote]

Well, I’m just getting annoyed by the quality of information on the whole forum incl. this sub-forum. Contemplating leaving this site for good, but haven’t pulled the trigger yet.[/quote]

That’s definitely an option. I am doing my best to share my experiences and what has worked for me in order to attempt to better this place as well. I don’t think I have all the answers, but I figure its a good place to share.[/quote]

And most everyone appreciates it. I know I do, especially the deadlift videos and ROM progression you’ve posted.