[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
giterdone wrote:
AssClown wrote:
elusive wrote:
GumsMagoo wrote:
I love how he takes time out of his routine to mack on the blonde hottie.
Ziville is a cutie. Another reason I wish I trained there.
I like the little brunette thing at 8:25 way better. De-freekin’-licious.
She was yummy.
On the training, this video and others have pointed out what I think is a mistake I have been making in my back training. With pull-ups, chins, pulldowns etc. I have been going for full ROM (chest to the bar essentially). I notice that many of the big guys go to nose level more or less. This makes sense since you can use more weight and not end the set too early. Those few inches going from nose to chest is likely mostly biceps.
I’ve (among others like tribunaldude) been commenting on that in roughly 300 threads, to no avail, as everybody seems to be in love with the “FULL ROM!!!111” school of “thought” on here 
Matt K has written some about that kind of thing, too:
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/training-logs.asp?qid=89100&tid=126
Only because you never see what beginners do with your advice. What the hell dude… Beginners also often overdo it with the weighted full-ROM pullups and end up with bicep tendonitis either near the elbow but more often near the shoulder
I better stop giving advice completely then, someone may misunderstand me, right?
Theres a big ass difference with Kroc doing a slight tug with his obliques Slight tug with his obliques? Right.
Kroc rows arguably have quite a bit of technical intricacy to them. I’ve mentioned that before as well. People will quite frankly have to learn how to do exercises right on their own. You can only teach so much over the net. and using that momentum to finish pulling his back with 200lbs He’s at 300 lbs now, and certainly using a fair bit of body English… It’s still a great exercise, one of the best row variants out there.
Beginners also use a ton of momentum via low-back and knees on standing BO rows with a barbell, but not the way that pro’s do.
However, how are you supposed to learn how to focus the movement on your back musculature despite the momentum…
Unless you keep practicing? . How is that different? , then a guy jerking his back towards the floor with 100 lbs talking about he did a Kroc row. In fact go on youtube now and see how many people claim to do krock rows with insane jerks and compare them to the video of the link you above.
matter of fact please tell me you see no difference between these 2 links, and at 165 the guy is not a weekling but who do you think is getting more out of their back workout? Erm, you didn’t even see him from the side… And while his stretch wasn’t that great, he certainly didn’t do badly? Not the best representation of a kroc row, but damn dude, you act like people don’t use momentum the wrong way on most exercises, anyway… Regardless of whether someone told them about using limited ROM/momentum on some exercises or not.
I’d be more worried about all those guys benching with pretty much rounded shoulders/letting their shoulders come off the bench at the top of a press and ignoring the whole scapula-placement thing… And thus messing up their bicep tendon and rotator cuff.
Stop worrying whether someone else isn’t doing kroc rows the exact way you think they should be done.
Kroc explains many of the intricacies of pullups and rows in that link I posted, if people ignore that then it’s neither my nor his fault.
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/training-logs.asp?
Oh yeah… This is the bodybuilding forum, not the beginners section.
So if there are a bunch of beginners in here misunderstanding stuff because they don’t have the training experience/common sense needed to understand the advice… Well, not my fault either.
Most experts at anything can tell when a beginner asks a question. This is the net and amazingly a beginner can sneak into any forum on this site and ask a question.
If you only want to give advanced bodybuilders advice fine…say/do that… but when somebody disagrees with you on the usage of full rom or anything for that matter understand that they aren’t coming from where your coming from.
My initial response wasn’t an attack on your “Full ROM” philosophies, I have no clue what they are. I was responding to the “Full ROM SCHOOL” of people you are refering to, maybe they don’t fully get what you are saying because they are at different levels. But then again now I realize “hey it ain’t yo fault right?”, I mean who cares to take a extra whole 5 seconds to think about the actual person whose asking the question and why they’re asking it. Although it’s kind of weird to give advice, if you don’t care.
BBBBUUUUUUTTTTTTTT
Since you want to get on the topic of Kroc Rows.
…I didn’t see Kroc using any jerks, and felt his explanation was good (Actually if you read he says he thinks he used Full ROM, which I agree with). The guy I used as a comparison was one of the first clips to pop up in youtube when searching kroc rows, and I think the guy looks above average strength and doesn’t look like a newbie which is exactly why I used it. As an example of how quickly information can trickle down and get corrupted. Why is this important? because if there is a one person who wants to gain something IMHO he would get way more out of doing them the way KROC actually did it then the other guy.[/quote]
Point being?
How exactly am I supposed to prevent that information from being “corrupted”? I did post kroc’s original stuff after all, what else do you want me to do? Upload some sort of picture with “DON’T CORRUPT THIS INFORMATION!!!” written on it?
Secondly, you’re the one who brought kroc rows into this discussion… We were originally talking about pullups before you decided to chime in… (I posted the link mostly because of kroc’s take on pullups/chins)
And as far as bodybuilding is concerned, there isn’t much of a reason for trying to get your chin over the bar when doing pullups.
Far more important to learn to actually involve your back to the maximum… And for that, full ROM is definitely not required, but more or less counterproductive, especially for guys with little mind muscle-connection or a narrow frame.
In any event, most of the time someone on here screams “FULL ROM FOREVER AND ON EVERYTHING!!!” it has nothing to do with him being worried about how beginners are going to take my (or other guys’) advice, it’s simply the standard reaction. Using full ROM for the sake of doing it, because it’s “in” or “in the articles” or whatever, not because it actually serves real purpose on that particular exercise.
As far as pullups go in bbing, the point of the exercise is not to reach full ROM, but to get your back as wide as possible, which has a lot to do with scapular motion.
As it happens, I got my share of pm’s from people who actually tried and liked the limited ROM paired with consciously involving the scapulae instead of just pulling with the arms… So I’d say it’s worth posting about that stuff every now and again.
