providing us with information about what your stats are and what your training history is like would help invaluably.
but if you’re completely noob then just jumping will do.[/quote]
I have been weight lifting for about 3-4 months now in total. I weigh about 140, and im 5’6-5’8.
I squat 205 for 4 reps, i deadlift 185 for 6 reps (my grip gives out b4 my legs). I am a freshman in HS and im 14. I play basketball, i try to be heatlthy nutritionally.
Is there anything else i need?
Thanks alot
Tom
PS I can touch the rim off of 1 foot, and i need about 2-3 inches off of 2 feet.
[quote]teedog wrote:
Ross Hunt wrote:
How susceptible are A, B, and C to improvement through training? It is said that ‘you can’t teach speed.’ I know that isn’t altogether true, but how true is it, and which of these three attributes is least susceptible to improvement through training?
The quote, ‘you can’t teach speed.’ is
interesting. I fully disagree with it, however. Of course, it all depends on how you define speed.
I believe you can teach proper technique, form and strength to be applied to sprinting. These factors will improve the sprinter’s speed. Add some mental training and speed will improve some more.
The quote, and I am not sure if you espouse that concept or not, is like saying that “great whatever” are born, not made, which is something else I totally disagree with.
Yes, I believe genetics have a lot to do with athletics. I also believe that determination, desire, belief win out over talent more often than not.
Can our young b’baller be trained to run faster than he already is? Absolutely, though probably not to be an Olympic sprinter. [/quote]
I’m not trying to bring up the genetics debate again. I think the gist of the quote is ‘Speed has more to do with genetics than strength does.’ Assuming this is true, since CoolColJ delineated several different contributing factors to speed, I was wondering if the ‘genetic cieling’ came into play more strongly in one of them than in the others.
I don’t want to seem like a Yessis lover here but i would get his Explosive running book. Stride frequency,technique and strength and speed-strength in the specfic movements involved in running along with relaxtion in the proper sequence are the keys to speed.
Brandon Green
[quote]wufwugy wrote:
beans wrote:
I agree with one of the other posts I just saw. Power Clean is going to be a better measure of explosiveness. My college track coach always used to say that world class Olympic lifters would beats world class sprinters hands down over the first 10m of sprinting, before the sprinter longer legs, stride length, and flexibility would catch up.
Vertical jumping I think has a lot more knee flexion. Big quads resulting from big squats can greatly affect double-leg vert jumps. Sprinting and one footed jumping are much more about explosive hip extension, just like power cleans.
Squats and deadlifts you can grind out slowly. However, if you don’t move an Olympic lift really fast, its not happening.
I think Olympic lifts and plyometrics/bounding are your key. Work on your hip explosiveness, your rebound off the ground (plyos), and it also will help a lot to work on your flexibility, stride length, and hip flexor strength. One key component of one-legged jumping and sprinting that is completely non-existant in two-legged vertical jumping is the knee drive. And you’ve got to have great flexibility to be able to fully extend your hip and push off on one side while at the same time driving your opposite knee forward and up as far as possible.
Maybe get some input or drills from your track coach, or maybe run a season of track even.
Don’t worry, you can improve drastically on it at your age. I started as a slow distance runner in 8th grade, then a HS football player who my coach kept saying was one of the slowest receivers on the team in my first year or two, and eventually progressed to running Div. I college track with a 4.4 40 time. And in HS I definately did not have the strength totals you have now. So you’ve got great weightroom strength to start with. Now just develop your sprinting strength.
the ‘study’ that ‘proved’ that OLers were faster than sprinters in the 10m-20m and had a higher VJ than high jumpers is unreliable at best. besides, that a long time ago when sprinters didn’t lift much, but OLers sprinted much and jumped much. long legs dont win races. stride length and flexibility is not something OLers lack.
knee flexion is not greater in VJ than sprinting.
ive seen OLers clean what looks like a slow dead. why does everybody think that OL is such a fast movement?[/quote]
Soviet O’lers were tested i believe in the 70’s versus USSR sprinters and found to be more explosive in a short dash(30 meters) and had greater jumping ability.
1-O’lers perform one movement (really two but one explosive).100 meter sprinters are just that 100 meter sprinters!
2- speed endurance(100 meters) training reduces the one time explosive capabilities!
3- Jumping ability is more related to start and accelerration capabilities than 100 meter running.
[quote]MachineAZ wrote:
TheSicilian wrote:
In HS at 5’6" 185 lbs, I could dunk a basketball and my 40 was a 4.62. My best squat was 465 x 10. I also long jumped 21’ 7".
Shouldn’t we know who you are then???
Because with those kinds of internet numbers, you’d be an all american athlete in real life.[/quote]
ROFL
Perhaps you lack stride frequency, stride length and acceleration.
Stride length seems a more likely cause.
You may need to do exercises with specific ROM such as modifying your average GPP exercises to sprinting.
Try a specialised sprinting coach and incorporate video analysis with yourself and some training partners.
are we honestly suppose to believe that you are 15 and have a 36 inch vertical. if thats true why the hell are you asking us for advice, we should be listening to you.
providing us with information about what your stats are and what your training history is like would help invaluably.
but if you’re completely noob then just jumping will do.
I have been weight lifting for about 3-4 months now in total. I weigh about 140, and im 5’6-5’8.
I squat 205 for 4 reps, i deadlift 185 for 6 reps (my grip gives out b4 my legs). I am a freshman in HS and im 14. I play basketball, i try to be heatlthy nutritionally.
Is there anything else i need?
Thanks alot
Tom
PS I can touch the rim off of 1 foot, and i need about 2-3 inches off of 2 feet. [/quote]
strength/hypertophy for beginners training will go a long way for you. read some of Chad Waterbury’s programs, Christian Thibaudeau’s programs, and Dan John’s One Lift a Day then choose one you like and do it completely then choose another and do it completely and choose another and do it completely and repeat until they aren’t working for you.
[quote]cccp21 wrote:
Soviet O’lers were tested i believe in the 70’s versus USSR sprinters and found to be more explosive in a short dash(30 meters) and had greater jumping ability.
1-O’lers perform one movement (really two but one explosive).100 meter sprinters are just that 100 meter sprinters!
2- speed endurance(100 meters) training reduces the one time explosive capabilities!
3- Jumping ability is more related to start and accelerration capabilities than 100 meter running. [/quote]
this testing was supposedly at the olympics. this means it is 100% flawed because any competent coach isn’t gonna let their athletes submit to some testing that could deleteriously affect their performance. even if the testing did tatke place, this was back in a time when sprinters didn’t lift as much as they do now. like i said, zero elite oly’s would beat an elite sprinter off the line today or tomorrow.
bulgarian lifters performed only competition movements, not soviets. they did lots of shit. what you say does not apply.
show me how you know speed endurance deletes from first 10m acceleration.
yes, but because they are close to the same position on the F/V curve.
[quote]wufwugy wrote:
cccp21 wrote:
Soviet O’lers were tested i believe in the 70’s versus USSR sprinters and found to be more explosive in a short dash(30 meters) and had greater jumping ability.
1-O’lers perform one movement (really two but one explosive).100 meter sprinters are just that 100 meter sprinters!
2- speed endurance(100 meters) training reduces the one time explosive capabilities!
3- Jumping ability is more related to start and accelerration capabilities than 100 meter running.
this testing was supposedly at the olympics. this means it is 100% flawed because any competent coach isn’t gonna let their athletes submit to some testing that could deleteriously affect their performance. even if the testing did tatke place, this was back in a time when sprinters didn’t lift as much as they do now. like i said, zero elite oly’s would beat an elite sprinter off the line today or tomorrow.
bulgarian lifters performed only competition movements, not soviets. they did lots of shit. what you say does not apply.
show me how you know speed endurance deletes from first 10m acceleration.
yes, but because they are close to the same position on the F/V curve.[/quote]
1- While the testing you are refering to may have been at the Olympics the testing that i am refering to was done by the Soviets themselves at home between Olympics so i was told by one of their sprint coaches.
2-any kind of endurance training at all in any significant volume will reduce one-time explosive effort. Check Verkhoshansky.
3- The Bulgars performing only competition movements has nothing to do with comparing Oly lifters to sprinters at short distance or their respective VJ’s. In fact correlation with the lifts is actually closer to how high one can jump with 50% of his bodyweight attached than done weightlessly.
Brandon Green
[quote]cccp21 wrote:
wufwugy wrote:
cccp21 wrote:
Soviet O’lers were tested i believe in the 70’s versus USSR sprinters and found to be more explosive in a short dash(30 meters) and had greater jumping ability.
1-O’lers perform one movement (really two but one explosive).100 meter sprinters are just that 100 meter sprinters!
2- speed endurance(100 meters) training reduces the one time explosive capabilities!
3- Jumping ability is more related to start and accelerration capabilities than 100 meter running.
this testing was supposedly at the olympics. this means it is 100% flawed because any competent coach isn’t gonna let their athletes submit to some testing that could deleteriously affect their performance. even if the testing did tatke place, this was back in a time when sprinters didn’t lift as much as they do now. like i said, zero elite oly’s would beat an elite sprinter off the line today or tomorrow.
bulgarian lifters performed only competition movements, not soviets. they did lots of shit. what you say does not apply.
show me how you know speed endurance deletes from first 10m acceleration.
yes, but because they are close to the same position on the F/V curve.
1- While the testing you are refering to may have been at the Olympics the testing that i am refering to was done by the Soviets themselves at home between Olympics so i was told by one of their sprint coaches.
2-any kind of endurance training at all in any significant volume will reduce one-time explosive effort. Check Verkhoshansky.
3- The Bulgars performing only competition movements has nothing to do with comparing Oly lifters to sprinters at short distance or their respective VJ’s. In fact correlation with the lifts is actually closer to how high one can jump with 50% of his bodyweight attached than done weightlessly.
Brandon Green[/quote]
nowadays no elite weightlifters could beat elite sprinters in the first 10m.
speed endurance in a 100m is not enough to directly delete from single rep power output. if it was then 5 rep sets would make one’s 1 rep max go down or progress slower than 1 rep sets. funny thing is that 5 rep sets are pretty much the most tried and true method of getting stronger than anybody else.
[quote]wufwugy wrote:
cccp21 wrote:
wufwugy wrote:
cccp21 wrote:
Soviet O’lers were tested i believe in the 70’s versus USSR sprinters and found to be more explosive in a short dash(30 meters) and had greater jumping ability.
1-O’lers perform one movement (really two but one explosive).100 meter sprinters are just that 100 meter sprinters!
2- speed endurance(100 meters) training reduces the one time explosive capabilities!
3- Jumping ability is more related to start and accelerration capabilities than 100 meter running.
this testing was supposedly at the olympics. this means it is 100% flawed because any competent coach isn’t gonna let their athletes submit to some testing that could deleteriously affect their performance. even if the testing did tatke place, this was back in a time when sprinters didn’t lift as much as they do now. like i said, zero elite oly’s would beat an elite sprinter off the line today or tomorrow.
bulgarian lifters performed only competition movements, not soviets. they did lots of shit. what you say does not apply.
show me how you know speed endurance deletes from first 10m acceleration.
yes, but because they are close to the same position on the F/V curve.
1- While the testing you are refering to may have been at the Olympics the testing that i am refering to was done by the Soviets themselves at home between Olympics so i was told by one of their sprint coaches.
2-any kind of endurance training at all in any significant volume will reduce one-time explosive effort. Check Verkhoshansky.
3- The Bulgars performing only competition movements has nothing to do with comparing Oly lifters to sprinters at short distance or their respective VJ’s. In fact correlation with the lifts is actually closer to how high one can jump with 50% of his bodyweight attached than done weightlessly.
Brandon Green
nowadays no elite weightlifters could beat elite sprinters in the first 10m.
speed endurance in a 100m is not enough to directly delete from single rep power output. if it was then 5 rep sets would make one’s 1 rep max go down or progress slower than 1 rep sets. funny thing is that 5 rep sets are pretty much the most tried and true method of getting stronger than anybody else.[/quote]
1-Questionable that no elite weightlifters can beat elite sprinters in first 10 meters even “nowadays”
2-IMO training to sprint the 100 meters optimally (fulfilling one’s potential)will be enough to effect one’s 10 meter
Sorry have to disagree with you.
[quote]Owen70 wrote:
are we honestly suppose to believe that you are 15 and have a 36 inch vertical. if thats true why the hell are you asking us for advice, we should be listening to you. [/quote]
I dont give a damn what you believe. I’m not doing this for anyone else but myself. If I wasnt doing a 36 inch jump then I wouldnt be on here asking why I’m not fast. I know my abilities and I also know that I know more about training then any moron at my school who thinks that NOEXPLODE is going to get you HUUUUGE. And if you need any adive go ahead and ask, I might be able to help you along with the tons of other guys here who have contributed in this topic trying to help me out.
[quote]and1bball4mk wrote:
Owen70 wrote:
are we honestly suppose to believe that you are 15 and have a 36 inch vertical. if thats true why the hell are you asking us for advice, we should be listening to you.
I dont give a damn what you believe. I’m not doing this for anyone else but myself. If I wasnt doing a 36 inch jump then I wouldnt be on here asking why I’m not fast. I know my abilities and I also know that I know more about training then any moron at my school who thinks that NOEXPLODE is going to get you HUUUUGE. And if you need any adive go ahead and ask, I might be able to help you along with the tons of other guys here who have contributed in this topic trying to help me out.
[/quote]
one thing could be the way you test your VJ. tester error can account for a big difference.
how high can you get one hand in relation to a rim? how high do you stand and how do you reach when testing starting height for VJ?
[quote]wufwugy wrote:
cccp21 wrote:
wufwugy wrote:
cccp21 wrote:
Soviet O’lers were tested i believe in the 70’s versus USSR sprinters and found to be more explosive in a short dash(30 meters) and had greater jumping ability.
1-O’lers perform one movement (really two but one explosive).100 meter sprinters are just that 100 meter sprinters!
2- speed endurance(100 meters) training reduces the one time explosive capabilities!
3- Jumping ability is more related to start and accelerration capabilities than 100 meter running.
this testing was supposedly at the olympics. this means it is 100% flawed because any competent coach isn’t gonna let their athletes submit to some testing that could deleteriously affect their performance. even if the testing did tatke place, this was back in a time when sprinters didn’t lift as much as they do now. like i said, zero elite oly’s would beat an elite sprinter off the line today or tomorrow.
bulgarian lifters performed only competition movements, not soviets. they did lots of shit. what you say does not apply.
show me how you know speed endurance deletes from first 10m acceleration.
yes, but because they are close to the same position on the F/V curve.
1- While the testing you are refering to may have been at the Olympics the testing that i am refering to was done by the Soviets themselves at home between Olympics so i was told by one of their sprint coaches.
2-any kind of endurance training at all in any significant volume will reduce one-time explosive effort. Check Verkhoshansky.
3- The Bulgars performing only competition movements has nothing to do with comparing Oly lifters to sprinters at short distance or their respective VJ’s. In fact correlation with the lifts is actually closer to how high one can jump with 50% of his bodyweight attached than done weightlessly.
Brandon Green
nowadays no elite weightlifters could beat elite sprinters in the first 10m.
speed endurance in a 100m is not enough to directly delete from single rep power output. if it was then 5 rep sets would make one’s 1 rep max go down or progress slower than 1 rep sets. funny thing is that 5 rep sets are pretty much the most tried and true method of getting stronger than anybody else.[/quote]
Although this is just an opinion i talked to my russian sprint coach friend last night and he told me that even today no sprinters can beat lifters out of the blocks and for the first 6 or 7 “steps”! He stated that out of the blocks was not “sprinting” per se. And yes speed-endurance for the 100 meters affects power levels.
Brandon Green
Enough! I gotta step in here. Brandon, no Oly lifter can beat any elite sprinter (sub 10 or close to it). That type of belief comes from people in certain cirlcles sitting around talking shit. It’s urban legendish.
[quote]kellyc wrote:
Enough! I gotta step in here. Brandon, no Oly lifter can beat any elite sprinter (sub 10 or close to it). That type of belief comes from people in certain cirlcles sitting around talking shit. It’s urban legendish.[/quote]
Enough in reverse.I venture to say that MOST Oly lifters(in the lighter classes) will beat world class sprinters in the start and out to 6 or 7 “strides”! This based on direct communication with a ex-USSR sprint coach and Soviet data