[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]rasturai wrote:
http://benfrank.net/disinfo/
lol check this site out…oh man.[/quote]
hahaha that was awesome! good find [/quote]
lol thanks…all that stuff is a bit hard to understand and confusing…I don’t think I could use that successfully in a sentence…or if I did use it, I would be unaware that I did lol. I geuss this would be taught in an english majoring class in college or something?
[quote]gregron wrote:
^^lol. Obviously what I said got to you and thats why you’re saying “punk”, “kid” and “junior” as if that will bother me. I wasnt trying to get under you skin with what I said but I obviously did.[/quote]
You are mistaking my factual comments for something said in the heat of anger. That’s twice now that you’ve misread something on this thread. First your silly analysis of Edgar’s training and now this.
I addressed every point that you made from various positions. Perhaps your reading comprehension is no better than your training analysis. Do you recall me saying the following: [quote]“am I wrong? [about your age] Are you a seasoned training veteran? If so then your comments are even more out of line.”[/quote] Now go back and reread the post, try to get it right, try to get something right for heaven sakes.
By the way, you also said this: [quote]I have no interest in arguing on the Internet…"[/quote] Yet, here you are arguing on the Internet. You’re a funny little boy.
[quote]gregron wrote:
rasturai wrote:
What are straw man tactics?
“to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the “straw man”), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position”
Like the marathon runner who just finished a race or the fighters punches in later rounds comparisons. [/quote]
You are confusing simple analogies with a straw man argument. Why am I not surprised? You have not gotten anything right so far.
^^LOL at both of your posts. You’re trying to derail this thing further and further with every post.
Did you go to the link that Rasturai posted? Exactly all of the tactics you are trying to use against me right now lol. You are trying to steer the issue away from what I said and are trying to back me into a corner.
You’re “analogies” are exactly straw man arguments ZEB.
Now back to the original topic…
[quote]ZEB wrote:\ You have not gotten anything right so far.
[/quote]
I said “butt off the bench and then half chin ups with kicking”
Is that not what Edgar did in the video?
Is lifting your butt of the bench bad form?
Arent doing partial reps on chin ups while kicking bad reps?
There’s been more than one person in this thread who also said edgars form was suspect but you’re only choosing to to try to argue with me, go figure. If you dont want to address the original topic of what I said about the bad form then please refrain from posting a response at all.
I guess you really do want to argue on the Internet, and I was thinking that you didn’t, based on what you said that is.
[quote]gregron wrote:
^^LOL at both of your posts. You’re trying to derail this thing further and further with every post.[/quote]
I’m always suspicious of anyone who constantly begins their posts with “LOL, or HA HA.” Kind of smacks of adolescents playing. But, I guess I’ve already exposed you on that one.
You have not even presented a cogent argument. There is no rational debate going on between you and I. There is only me telling you that your comments were off base. Is that simple enough for you junior?
Not at all. They were meant to clearly point out to you that, like other sports, there can be a departure from perfect technique for many reasons. Often analogies are used to draw a comparison so that the person who is lost, in this case you, can better understand why they’ve become lost. But of course you ran off screaming straw man. (shaking head) you are actually starting to make me laugh - thank you.
[quote]
I said “butt off the bench and then half chin ups with kicking”
Is that not what Edgar did in the video?
Is lifting your butt of the bench bad form?
Arent doing partial reps on chin ups while kicking bad reps?[/quote]
I didn’t claim otherwise. My original point (which I tried to show you through two analogies) and one that I maintain is that perfect form sometimes cannot be kept, and is at times not necessary. I further pointed out that if you had a history of hard training under your belt you would understand that. I’ve pointed this out several times, in several different ways. I know now why you said what you did - You’re a very dumb, inexperienced guy.
D O Y O U U N D E R S T A N D?
The Internet is filled with dumb little kdis, like you, who do not understand hard training because they’ve never been involved with it. As for the comments on this thread, the others who pointed it out did so while giving Edgar credit. You seemed to have dismissed his feat out of hand. And you did that because you are clueless as to how difficult this performance was. I asked you to try to duplicate it so that you would find out how difficult that it was. But, you dodged that one didn’t you kid? It’s much easier to talk it up on the Internet than to actually train hard.
I’ve addressed it far more times than you have. You have not even been able to engage me in this debate. It might be time for you to run off to another thread and create more posts about things you know nothing about. You seem to be pretty good at that. As for hard training, I am convinced that you know nothing.
Yeah… gonna have to side with gregron on this… ZEB, you are apparently a complete fucking tool. Of course form has to be set to a specific standard, or how else how can you judge the acheivement? Weight lifting is not like boxing or MMA, where the goal in that is to knock em out, tap out, etc, who cares how its done, as long as its by the rules,the result is what matters not the path. Weightlifting wise, form is everything, what, you think in powerlifting competitions, that shit form would fly? A propper bench press has a definition, and THAT is not it, guess what,i can do a 500 reps of 135 if you let me choose my own form, I’m not saying what he did wasn’t impressive (for someone with a primary goal that isn’t weight lifting), but it should be judged according to form, because plain and simple, feet on the floor, ass on the bench, he would not have reached that many reps.
Hey gregon, you better send Ronnie Coleman a post and try to correct his form. I have no idea how he’s succeeded so greatly in bodybuilding without your sage advice.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Ok so you agree with me that his form/reps were for the most party shitty (except the first 20 or so bench presses when he kept his butt on the bench)
But then you said you know why I said that because I am “a very dumb, inexperienced guy.”
So if you know what I am saying and you “dont claim otherwise” (about the bad form) then how can you say I’m very dumb and inexperienced guy if you dont disagree with it?
Zeb, Gregron can y’all just get along? Greg’s not impressed with Edgar’s form on the bench and chins, no big deal. This reminds me of people who argued with Crossfitters when Poliquin wrote at article about Crossfit and there were so many pages about the kipping chin-up being a useful tool for conditiong or a crappy exercise because it doesn’t buiild impressive lats.
By the way, a bodybuilder at my gym who thought Edgar’s form sucked, did Edgar’s body weight routine at a bodyweight of 200lbs and he did it with form Greg would respect.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
As for the comments on this thread, the others who pointed it out did so while giving Edgar credit. You seemed to have dismissed his feat out of hand. And you did that because you are clueless as to how difficult this performance was
[/quote]
did you miss this post?
[quote]gregron wrote:
I never said Edgar wasnt strong but I did say that those 30 reps werent 30 reps and his pullups were all half pullups. thats all. I’m sure if he did legit reps on both exercises that he would still put up a good number but obviously not what he did in that video
[/quote]
[quote]fnf wrote:
Zeb, Gregron can y’all just get along? Greg’s not impressed with Edgar’s form on the bench and chins, no big deal. This reminds me of people who argued with Crossfitters when Poliquin wrote at article about Crossfit and there were so many pages about the kipping chin-up being a useful tool for conditiong or a crappy exercise because it doesn’t buiild impressive lats.
By the way, a bodybuilder at my gym who thought Edgar’s form sucked, did Edgar’s body weight routine at a bodyweight of 200lbs and he did it with form Greg would respect.[/quote]
I’m not trying to fight with Zeb. I said how i felt about it and that was all. I didnt attack him personally or try to degrade/insult him like he did with me.
I didnt say Edgar wasnt strong or not a good fighter. I said his reps werent full reps and that the fight was lame (not that he sucked or that he’s not a good fighter.)
How many reps did the bodybuilder at your gym get?
[quote]DieselAllDay wrote:
Yeah… gonna have to side with gregron on this… ZEB, you are apparently a complete fucking tool. Of course form has to be set to a specific standard, or how else how can you judge the acheivement? Weight lifting is not like boxing or MMA, where the goal in that is to knock em out, tap out, etc, who cares how its done, as long as its by the rules,the result is what matters not the path. Weightlifting wise, form is everything, what, you think in powerlifting competitions, that shit form would fly? A propper bench press has a definition, and THAT is not it, guess what,i can do a 500 reps of 135 if you let me choose my own form, I’m not saying what he did wasn’t impressive (for someone with a primary goal that isn’t weight lifting), but it should be judged according to form, because plain and simple, feet on the floor, ass on the bench, he would not have reached that many reps. [/quote]
You begin by saying form matters less for mma, or training. Frank Edgar is an mma champion (you are agreeing with me as that is my point regarding hard training). Then you move to how important form is in competitions, which of course I never said otherwise, as I think that’s pretty obvious. I smell a real straw man here.
But logic aside, as there is very little in your post.
I’ll give you the same task that I gave gregon (the idiot). Load up a bar with your body weight on it and copy Edgars form, then go do as many chins as you can, again using partial reps. See how far you get.
Back to the straw man. You have actually used a straw man argument, so thanks for helping me point out to gregon what a straw man is. You have posted the classic straw man (see the difference between a straw man and a “learning” analogy gregon?)
Here, I’ll spell it out for you:
You have attempted to point out why it is wrong for competitive lifters to train with less than good form, when I never once said otherwise. Thus setting up your own argument (straw man) and then easily knocking it down.
Nice!
You two guys ever watch the movie “Dumber and Dumber”?
You should, you really should.
One of the few T-Nation thruths is that ZEB will pick an e-arguement with anyone at any time. Dude, you gotta relax.
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Ok so you agree with me that his form/reps were for the most party shitty (except the first 20 or so bench presses when he kept his butt on the bench)
But then you said you know why I said that because I am “a very dumb, inexperienced guy.”
So if you know what I am saying and you “dont claim otherwise” (about the bad form) then how can you say I’m very dumb and inexperienced guy if you dont disagree with it?
[/quote]
Wow, you are just not a smart person are you?
I never said his form was good. I said, it basically doesn’t matter, it was good enough and was incredibly hard to perform. Remember, that’s why I challenged you to duplicate his effort.
This has left the realm of entertaining, it now borders on the scary.
Do you actually drive a car, drink alcohol and vote?
Please tell me that you do none of the above.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
One of the few T-Nation thruths is that ZEB will pick an e-arguement with anyone at any time. Dude, you gotta relax.[/quote]
I will not, you want to fight about it?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
I never said his form was good.
[/quote]
Ok so his form was not good. We both agree on what I said. Just clarifying.
No need for the personal attacks Zeb
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
One of the few T-Nation thruths is that ZEB will pick an e-arguement with anyone at any time. Dude, you gotta relax.[/quote]
yeah I’ve seen his posts before and I realized that a while ago.
It’s just that I’ve found through experience that Internet purists are usually either kids, or guys who have never pushed themselves. Yet, they post on an Internet forum how bad someone’s form is.
Yeah, I suppose I could have let it go, but that wouldn’t have been any fun.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
It’s just that I’ve found through experience that Internet purists are usually either kids, or guys who have never pushed themselves. Yet, they post on an Internet forum how bad someone’s form is.
Yeah, I suppose I could have let it go, but that wouldn’t have been any fun.[/quote]
I agree that usually the ones calling out videos are people who dont know what they are talking about and have no business commenting… But that is not the case in this point.
I know there is a time and place for kicking pullups and that they have their benefits (especially in MMA) but I do not think that a rep challenge video is the place for those type of reps.
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
I never said his form was good.
[/quote]
Ok so his form was not good. We both agree on what I said. Just clarifying.
No need for the personal attacks Zeb[/quote]
I never said his form was good therefore we never disagreed on that point. You really are using straw man tactics, clearly.
For about the 7th time now, I said that form, in his case, didn’t matter as it was good enough and his feat was incredible. That’s why I asked you to duplicate it, and that’s why you didn’t want to.
As for the personal attacks, you wanted to spew your nonsense and not be called out on it. If at some point you would have started making sense then I most certainly would have been gracious enough to back off. But of course, you never did.