Thanks for that vid sardines, I love watchin Mike in all interviews
@rasturai: Hmmm, we seem to view skillsets differently. You look at a skill defficiency as a defficiency of the fighter. I agree with this obviously, but I also view it as an aspect of the athletes style. Randy is a good example of this. As an MMA fighter he approaches worldclass technical proficiency in the clinch and on the ground, but his striking isn’t quite up to snuff, especially if you were to compare it to guys like Silva, BJ, or Vitor. It’s his style, he’s not quite well rounded but is very good at what he does.
Anderson Silva and Brock both have weak points in their game, as do Sonnen, Marquardt, and Carwin. The fighter can dedicate a lot of time bringing those weak points up to par, or they can specialize their style (Sonnen does this, Marquardt does the former).
It takes a long time to develop high level skills in most martial disciplines, and as such you can’t quite put it on the athlete, especially when he’s already very proficient in one or two.
GSP would be an example of a guy that is well rounded with high level skills. Part of it is because he is a freak (a talented workaholic), and part of it is that, once again, he has engineered his style and skills to complement each other. BJ and Silva are other examples. As the sport grows we’ll see more fighters doing this, but for now I’m happy with the standard of competition in MMA.
[quote]rasturai wrote:
[quote]slimjim wrote:
[quote]rasturai wrote:
Hope James Toney knocks the fuck out of Randy Couture. James Toney is right…in the boxing world Randy Couture would be considered a bum. James Toney is a livin legend in boxing…the amount of skill he posses is world class and Randy doesn’t have shit on him…even if he does win by taking him down and laying and hitting. I’m not pro boxing, compared to MMA…i love both sports. I just think MMA is still obviosuly a new sport…to consider some MMA athletes at the same level of elite world class athletes compared to boxers is a joke.
If your pro MMA, you will disagree with me obviosuly.[/quote]
just to remind you of what you originally argued[/quote]
I was making an opinion there. I do hope James Toney knocks Randy out. If he doesn’t…oh well. Anyways I think it’s best if we just agree to disagree, this could go on forever and I don’t care enough to debate online about fruitless ideas.
Take care.[/quote]
ill admit to getting way too invested in this argument, ill agree to disagree…unfortunately saturday can only prove me wrong if randy loses…if randy wins then it’s just ‘well, a boxer tried his hands at mma’ but toney, imo, is the wrong guy for the crossover,there have been plenty of boxers better suited to throw their hats in the mma ring
[quote]slimjim wrote:
[quote]rasturai wrote:
[quote]slimjim wrote:
[quote]rasturai wrote:
Hope James Toney knocks the fuck out of Randy Couture. James Toney is right…in the boxing world Randy Couture would be considered a bum. James Toney is a livin legend in boxing…the amount of skill he posses is world class and Randy doesn’t have shit on him…even if he does win by taking him down and laying and hitting. I’m not pro boxing, compared to MMA…i love both sports. I just think MMA is still obviosuly a new sport…to consider some MMA athletes at the same level of elite world class athletes compared to boxers is a joke.
If your pro MMA, you will disagree with me obviosuly.[/quote]
just to remind you of what you originally argued[/quote]
I was making an opinion there. I do hope James Toney knocks Randy out. If he doesn’t…oh well. Anyways I think it’s best if we just agree to disagree, this could go on forever and I don’t care enough to debate online about fruitless ideas.
Take care.[/quote]
ill admit to getting way too invested in this argument, ill agree to disagree…unfortunately saturday can only prove me wrong if randy loses…if randy wins then it’s just ‘well, a boxer tried his hands at mma’ but toney, imo, is the wrong guy for the crossover,there have been plenty of boxers better suited to throw their hats in the mma ring[/quote]
Very wise words. It’s not like a boxer at some point couldn’t cross over to mma and be competitive at a high level. But Toney is not the boxer to do that. Sure, anything can happen in an mma fight, especially with a big puncher like Toney. But short of lightning striking, Couture will beat him in the first round, probably with in the first 3:00.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Boxing doesn’t have better “punching skills” then MMA per se.
Many moves in boxing are extremely sportspecific and wouldn’t work anywhere else.
I buy the “better ahtletes” argument only in so far that the talent pool is bigger and the sport’s is older.
Olympic participation has nothing to do with athletic qualities, far from it.
If MMA’s success story continues, they could get ther in 10-20 years, hopefully Zuffa will encounter some serious competition by then.
btw, I think the fight Toney-Couture is a terrible idea and that the fat mumbler has a decent chance ~20% of knocking Randy’S head off.[/quote]
Dude, you have no idea of what you’re talking about on a boxers hands-
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]slimjim wrote:
[quote]rasturai wrote:
[quote]slimjim wrote:
[quote]rasturai wrote:
Hope James Toney knocks the fuck out of Randy Couture. James Toney is right…in the boxing world Randy Couture would be considered a bum. James Toney is a livin legend in boxing…the amount of skill he posses is world class and Randy doesn’t have shit on him…even if he does win by taking him down and laying and hitting. I’m not pro boxing, compared to MMA…i love both sports. I just think MMA is still obviosuly a new sport…to consider some MMA athletes at the same level of elite world class athletes compared to boxers is a joke.
If your pro MMA, you will disagree with me obviosuly.[/quote]
just to remind you of what you originally argued[/quote]
I was making an opinion there. I do hope James Toney knocks Randy out. If he doesn’t…oh well. Anyways I think it’s best if we just agree to disagree, this could go on forever and I don’t care enough to debate online about fruitless ideas.
Take care.[/quote]
ill admit to getting way too invested in this argument, ill agree to disagree…unfortunately saturday can only prove me wrong if randy loses…if randy wins then it’s just ‘well, a boxer tried his hands at mma’ but toney, imo, is the wrong guy for the crossover,there have been plenty of boxers better suited to throw their hats in the mma ring[/quote]
Very wise words. It’s not like a boxer at some point couldn’t cross over to mma and be competitive at a high level. But Toney is not the boxer to do that. Sure, anything can happen in an mma fight, especially with a big puncher like Toney. But short of lightning striking, Couture will beat him in the first round, probably with in the first 3:00.
[/quote]
Toney’s not the right guy 'cause he’s in his 40’s, hasn’t fought in I don’t even remember how long and is a good 60lbs over his heyday. Anyone here who thinks Couture is gonna stand for longer than it takes him to get across the ring is out of their mind. I’d also bet dollars to doughnuts that Toney hasn’t really trained takedown defense and feels like he can just walk in there, throw a quitter to Coutures head and get paid. This is total marketing hype bullshit and it irritates the piss outta me. The only way this goes in Toney’s favor is if he times a hook or an uppercut on Couture when he shoots. Other wise this will be over quickly, and that sucks.
haha!!!
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Boxing doesn’t have better “punching skills” then MMA per se.
Many moves in boxing are extremely sportspecific and wouldn’t work anywhere else.
I buy the “better ahtletes” argument only in so far that the talent pool is bigger and the sport’s is older.
Olympic participation has nothing to do with athletic qualities, far from it.
If MMA’s success story continues, they could get ther in 10-20 years, hopefully Zuffa will encounter some serious competition by then.
btw, I think the fight Toney-Couture is a terrible idea and that the fat mumbler has a decent chance ~20% of knocking Randy’S head off.[/quote]
Dude, you have no idea of what you’re talking about on a boxers hands-
[/quote]
lol, well if an unathletic (though huge) mma dude stands in front of ray mercer and tries to kick and punch him, i like mercer’s odds…even at 50
I got done watching three of Toney’s fights (Barkley, RJJ, Jirov). The guy is very slick, and VERY hard to hit. Very crafty at close quarters, so I don’t think Randy is going to risk a clinch takedown. He blocks with his shoulders a lot, something I don’t think translates to MMA (risk of takedown?).
Anyway I have a question for anyone well versed in boxing: Toney appeared to lack the kind of one punch KO power possessed by RJJ or Hearns. Is this the case or was it just him pacing himself in those fights.
He has 44 KO’s.
I’m aware, as I’m sure you’re aware there are different kinds of KOs and changes in KO power as one shifts weight-classes, or so I’m lead to believe. As an example, Toney knocked Jirov down in the last round after a minute or so after stunning him. RJJ has knocked down multiple guys after tagging them a couple of times.
The reason I think this is relevant is that there is a chance Toney hurts Randy (assuming the following improbabilities: He trained seriously, he trained right). If in that situation Randy is not completely out of it, following him to the ground and finishing with strikes put’s him at risk.
^^^ Run, I see what you’re asking. Toney definitely has one punch KO power but you gotta remember he started as a middleweight. In boxing that’s 160lbs. Whatever he’s at now [I’m guessing in the 230’s] is not his natural weight, so every class he’s gone up has taken a little from his natural power advantage. With that, switching from 10oz to 4oz gloves brings a lot of that advantage back. As much as I hate to say it, I don’t think that matters though.
Pretty sure Dana White signed Toney 'cause he knows he won’t take the “MMA” aspect seriously and just thinks he’s gonna walk in there and detach Coutures head from his shoulders and Toney’s gonna get smashed, thus making MMA look superior to boxing to the uneducated masses. That of course looks great for the UFC and brings more money and recognition their way. This whole thing is a glorified circus act and I hate it. But, I’ll probably watch it so they’re doing something right.
In all likely-hood, you’re right, KO power won’t matter in this fight. But if there’s a serious puncher’s chance it’ll make the fight for me, especially since he’s fighting Randy Couture. As much as I love Randy, I love upsets more.
Nothing wrong with the occasional freakshow. One of the reasons I like Lesnar is because his size makes most fights a circus act, at least till the staredown ends. Let’s just hope they don’t follow this with more and spoil our tastebuds.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Toney’s gonna get smashed, thus making MMA look superior to boxing to the [b]uneducated masses.[/quote]
bahahahahaha
Flash - how much do you think his natural power is gone…I know he started at middleweight…but sometimes I don’t see guys lose any of their power when they go up in weightclasses…
[quote]rasturai wrote:
Flash - how much do you think his natural power is gone…I know he started at middleweight…but sometimes I don’t see guys lose any of their power when they go up in weightclasses…[/quote]
Really it’s not that they “lose power”, it’s that naturally bigger guys can naturally take a bigger punch, and give a bigger punch. Most fighters can somewhat carry it through weightclasses but the difference in power is usually noticeable. Basically what I’m saying is a 160lb James Toney had more horsepower than a 230lb James Toney.
cool BJ penn video that someone sent me
hopefully he can put on a good show , win or loose
all this talk of Toney and Couture- has no one mentioned Nate Fucking Diaz and Marcus Davis
I like Marcus, but its more fun to say fuck the fucking diaz bros.
weird night…
i was hoping Florian would win, but Maynard is the king of lay n’ pray. he won, but i don’t care to see him fight ever again…
Davis went out like a real fgihter…sucked to have a bad cut in the 1st and keep fighting. i hate to see pro guys tap to chokes, too. but i really hate the Diaz brothers…what a bunch of tools. 209. whatever…
Lauzon was the fight of the night, in my opinion. he stomped Rudeger, and gave him the out with the arm bar…nice fight, tho.
Wow, Randy layed pipe on Toney. He did some nice work with that low single. I’ve been working on that move for a couple of weeks so it’s nice to see a fighter use it.
I think the fight of the night, as far as the main event goes, was the Edgar/Penn fight. Penn showed slight improvement with the takedowns, but for the most part stuck to the same style and gameplan that cost him the first. Edgar on the other hand almost seemed to fight with heightened confidence, going for more takedowns (all of which were beautifully technical), moving into the pocket more and working in BJ’s guard. What really impressed and worried me at the same time was Edgar’s work of his back; BJ came close to passing several times in the last two rounds but never quite got it.
Looking at how BJ was able to catch Edgar off balance several times for a takedown, I think Maynard may very well be able to pull off the gameplan he used on Florian (which I thought was pretty boring). Frankie has some work to do for his next fight.
Either way incredible performance for Frankie, entertained me the whole way through, and was as technical as they come.
Maia also impressed me with the grapplefuck he put on Miranda. A very good night for Jiu Jitsu.