you do realize that they’re different sports right? wrestling and mma? boxing and mma? world class wrestler does not equal world class mma fighter…i dont even know what you’re trying to accomplish with these posts, but i think your love for a sport whose popularity on the wane is causing some myopia with regards to the event that is taking place on saturday…randy’s a bum because he fights guys with less wrestling credentials than his own? how did you even come up with that rationalization?
I think you guys are misinterpreting what he’s trying to say. The elite in boxing get that way by beating other guys with complete skillsets. Boxong has been around a LONG time. Mmma is a very young sport. A LOT of guys in mma are only really skilled in one or two areas of the game. When we start getting a majority of guys in mma who are equally skilled in wrestling, bjj, boxing, mt, etc, it’s going to be a totally different game. FWIW, I watch about 20 times as much mma as I do boxing.
I doubt it, there will always be “specialists” in mma crossing over from other sports and they will be successful.
[quote]BJack wrote:
I think you guys are misinterpreting what he’s trying to say. The elite in boxing get that way by beating other guys with complete skillsets. Boxong has been around a LONG time. Mmma is a very young sport. A LOT of guys in mma are only really skilled in one or two areas of the game. When we start getting a majority of guys in mma who are equally skilled in wrestling, bjj, boxing, mt, etc, it’s going to be a totally different game. FWIW, I watch about 20 times as much mma as I do boxing. [/quote]
i still dont see how that makes randy a bum?
beyond that, whatever, mma requires so many disciplines that it is going to be next to impossible to be the best in all of them - there is going to be disparity between skillsets. it’s like a basketball player winning the 3 point contest than saying that lebron isnt world class cause he cant shoot 3s as well as him.
obviously the game is changing as the kids are coming up with much more cross training than previous champions were, but it is ridiculous to think that boxing is somehow more competitive than mma. dont hate just because boxers have been exposed as incomplete fighters.
Once again an mma thread has been polluted by someone who doesn’t understand mma. So, what else is new?
LOL I truly think you guys are barely reading what I am writing, and coming out with the DUMBEST responses. “THATS WHY ITS CALLED MMA” - haha oh thanks, I truly never knew that.
Please read:
Let me give you an example on what Chael said in regards to ANDERSON SILVA: So theres something that he sees in my style that he’s just flat just staying away from. He has looked good but it’s not hard to look good against some of those guys that he’s competing with. So you know I’m notÃ?¯Ã?»Ã?¿ here to put these guys down but from my stand point it’s a different style than he’s ever faced. People tell me how dangerous he is on his feet; he’s not going to be on his feet against me."
“ITS NOT HARD TO LOOK GOOD AGAINST SOME OF THOSE GUYS HE’S COMPETING WITH”
THE COMPEITION WAS MUCH GREATER when Anderson Silva fought Chael Sonnen, compared to Patrik Cote. Chael said it…I got the 2001 silver I can take him down, 2 national titles. I’m just sayin…Chael was on another level fighting against Anderson Silva…much greater compeition to some of the LESS qualified athletes Anderson Silva has fought…you could even call some of them bums.
Randy Couture - exact same thing, some of the guys he’s fought…nothing too special…and his record of 18-10…I mean I just don’t see the LEGEND status he is given. Does anyone else here see it?
Brock Lesnar vs. Shane Carwin…Shane obvisouly has much better hands than Brock…some would say their wrestling is about the same…yeah shane was the man to beat brock but he gassed out hard after that barrage, brock is one tough motherfucker to withstand all that cause NO ONE else has. But the blueprint to beat Brock was given a while ago…Shane exposed it even more now. It’s only a matter of time with someone of better conditioning and complete wrestling skills to beat Brock.
I guess BJaok understands dumbass then. It’s like you’re a newb to sports, you have uncovered the truth that styles make fights, Congratulations (This is even true of boxing and all sports) Now go have a celebratory cookie and SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!
^Sir, you need to calm the fuck down. This is a fucking internet forum.
@rasturai: I agree that the sport has yet to reach the type of technical standard seen in boxing, but I disagree that it really is that far off.
In defense of Randy:
Records in MMA don’t carry the same weight as in boxing. It’s tougher to pad them since:
a)Styles make fights, and there are a lot of different style-matchups out there. More than boxing due to the added dimensions of the sport.
b)At the higher levels (UFC, WEC, SF) the competition is dense.
c)Due to the promotion structure, fighters don’t really pick their opponents.
d)Fighters fight more often.
As for the two examples you gave (Silva’s and Brock’s last performances):
See point a) above. Silva fought a difficult style matchup, as did Brock. If GSP (who, I think most would agree, is a high level athlete) fought someone who could out-sprawl his shot and outstrike him, he’d have a very tough night; he may even look as bad as Brock or Silva did.
Bad style matchups are a part of the sport, and happen very often. To say that MMA has a lack of talented athletes because a few of the top level guys had bad nights is missing the point.
Technically striking tends to be bad across the board, but I’ve seen some very high levels of skill in the clinch and on the ground since I started watching MMA 5 years ago. So personally, I consider many of the top level guys good to great athletes.
Thanks for an actual response rundymc lol…I’ve seen sardines post before haha so it’s not really surprising to me for him to act like this. It’s just the way he is lol.
Was the Brock fight an ACTUAL bad matchup stylistically? Or was it really…Brock has shitty hands and Carwins hands are good. So what happened? Carwin outstriked Brock easily cause Brock had no clue what to do. You see that in a glimpse of the Frank Mir fight against Brock as well but it wasn’t enough for people to notice it. Again in the Carwin fight it got exposed that Brock’s hands aren’t good. But Brock can take a lot of punishment so really he just needs to keep plugging away and he will get a lot better.
Wrestling wise maybe Brock had a upper hand, but Carwin has good wrestling as well. I really think Carwin is overall a more well rounded fighter than Brock, he just gassed and pretty much couldn’t do anything in that 2nd round from being exhausted. He’s a big guy, I don’t know how much harder he can really work to make his conditioning that much better but it’d be interesting to see a rematch.
really? the dumbest responses? if there’s a problem here, it’s your ability to express clearly what your point is, seeing as how, apparently, most of us took what you were saying the wrong way. basically you inadequately expressed your argument, then faulted us for not understanding you. sorry for not speaking the boxing-is-the-best language (after seeing many of the old time boxers speak, i can understand how this could happen)
you’re the one who called randy a bum for fighting guys with less wrestling ability, THEN bringing up his record. do you see how that could lead to confusion? no? see above statement regarding boxers with brain trauma and their ability ot express themselves
your point is still invalid, there are way more skillsets involved in an mma match than there are in boxing. it is ludicrous to think that an mma fighter will have the time to polish their hands that a boxer will. furthermore, i hate the ‘mma fighters have shit hands, theyd get punked against a good boxer argument’ the game is so different. with takedowns, clinches (where you can actually strike from) etc, the footwork is different, the angles are different, the cage is different, yet you frickin dinosaurs of a decaying and decrepit sport cant seem to handle that boxers are no longer viewed as the baddest dudes on the planet given their inability to defend a takedown or submission.
Wait…what’s your point. For the hundreth time…Thank you…really…thank you to everyone who keeps saying MMA is different then boxing, and that there are a ton more skill sets. Thank you for saying it’s ludicrous to think that an mma fighter will have time to polish their hands that a boxer will. That’s why you have fights like SILVA vs. GRIFFIN…where the fighter is so out-classed it’s just a joke. I’m saying the WHOLE competition standard should be HIGHER in the UFC so the whole sport as a WHOLE is recognized as world class. Maybe one day it can go to the olympics. Yet no…you still want to educate me on different angles, the cage is different blah blah blah…the whole sport is different!! THANK YOU geez. I told you already I like the sport of MMA, I’m not against it…so your talk about being a brain dead boxing lover doesn’t make sense? I’m not picking a side here, which you already seem to have picked MMA against boxing.
Serious question: Have you trained in anything? If not…please STFU on differences.
[quote]rasturai wrote:
Wait…what’s your point. For the hundreth time…Thank you…really…thank you to everyone who keeps saying MMA is different then boxing, and that there are a ton more skill sets. Thank you for saying it’s ludicrous to think that an mma fighter will have time to polish their hands that a boxer will. That’s why you have fights like SILVA vs. GRIFFIN…where the fighter is so out-classed it’s just a joke. I’m saying the WHOLE competition standard should be HIGHER in the UFC so the whole sport as a WHOLE is recognized as world class. Maybe one day it can go to the olympics. Yet no…you still want to educate me on different angles, the cage is different blah blah blah…the whole sport is different!! THANK YOU geez. I told you already I like the sport of MMA, I’m not against it…so your talk about being a brain dead boxing lover doesn’t make sense? I’m not picking a side here, which you already seem to have picked MMA against boxing.
Serious question: Have you trained in anything? If not…please STFU on differences.[/quote]
oh no, i dont trane, i just wear tapout and affliction shirts…lmao at bringing in olympic boxing as some kind of argument for the legitimacy of a sport…olympic boxing…LMFAO
the point is, you keep bringing up wrestling disparity as an example of how the sport has not progressed, or differences in levels of individual disciplines. there are going to be disparaties in every sport, even boxing, it’s just always going to be way more pronounced in a sport with more going on. so what is your point?
[quote]rasturai wrote:
Hope James Toney knocks the fuck out of Randy Couture. James Toney is right…in the boxing world Randy Couture would be considered a bum. James Toney is a livin legend in boxing…the amount of skill he posses is world class and Randy doesn’t have shit on him…even if he does win by taking him down and laying and hitting. I’m not pro boxing, compared to MMA…i love both sports. I just think MMA is still obviosuly a new sport…to consider some MMA athletes at the same level of elite world class athletes compared to boxers is a joke.
If your pro MMA, you will disagree with me obviosuly.[/quote]
just to remind you of what you originally argued
[quote]slimjim wrote:
the point is, you keep bringing up wrestling disparity as an example of how the sport has not progressed, or differences in levels of individual disciplines. there are going to be disparaties in every sport, even boxing, it’s just always going to be way more pronounced in a sport with more going on. so what is your point?[/quote]
Did you just ask me the same fucking question I just answered to a couple posts back?
[quote]slimjim wrote:
[quote]rasturai wrote:
Hope James Toney knocks the fuck out of Randy Couture. James Toney is right…in the boxing world Randy Couture would be considered a bum. James Toney is a livin legend in boxing…the amount of skill he posses is world class and Randy doesn’t have shit on him…even if he does win by taking him down and laying and hitting. I’m not pro boxing, compared to MMA…i love both sports. I just think MMA is still obviosuly a new sport…to consider some MMA athletes at the same level of elite world class athletes compared to boxers is a joke.
If your pro MMA, you will disagree with me obviosuly.[/quote]
just to remind you of what you originally argued[/quote]
I was making an opinion there. I do hope James Toney knocks Randy out. If he doesn’t…oh well. Anyways I think it’s best if we just agree to disagree, this could go on forever and I don’t care enough to debate online about fruitless ideas.
Take care.
Boxing doesn’t have better “punching skills” then MMA per se.
Many moves in boxing are extremely sportspecific and wouldn’t work anywhere else.
I buy the “better ahtletes” argument only in so far that the talent pool is bigger and the sport’s is older.
Olympic participation has nothing to do with athletic qualities, far from it.
If MMA’s success story continues, they could get ther in 10-20 years, hopefully Zuffa will encounter some serious competition by then.
btw, I think the fight Toney-Couture is a terrible idea and that the fat mumbler has a decent chance ~20% of knocking Randy’S head off.
I buy the “better ahtletes” argument only in so far that the talent pool is bigger and the sport’s is older.
(I agree with this)
You don’t think boxing doesn’t have better punching skills?
I’ve done muay thai, I’ve done boxing…I’d say SOME things are sport specific…but to say it wouldn’t work anywhere else I have to firmly disagree. I have also done a little bit of MMA sparring. Listen, MMA guys don’t hire boxing coaches for no reason…they also spar with boxers for a reason. From my personal experience it makes a huge difference, and it definately works. A punch is a punch my friend, the footwork learned, defensive skills, timing, so many tributes. Vitor Belfort is a good example of this with better hand skills than most and it showed in his career…he has also mentioned before he has beat many kickboxers and the like only with his boxing skills.
I only mentioned the olympic participation scale so it would be a global participation for all countries.
Thank you for mentioning the “better athletes” argument only in so far that the talent pool is bigger and the sport’s older. THAT’S exactly what I was trying to say and was doing a very poor way of expressing it.
I believe MMA as the sport gets older this will happen…thats exactly what I meant and with the sport getting older, more talent pool…and the competition will be nuts in my opinion with a lot more world class athletes (not to say there aren’t already world class athletes)
Again, thank you for putting it in that way…it’s exactly what was in my mind I just couldn’t express it like you did so easily.
I believe the fight was a bad idea as well…and Randy mentioned he’s not going to stand with him…he’s going to take him down and beat his ass. James wants to knock him out…I can see the fight going Randy’s way if he does his strategy, if James gets the hit he needs to…who knows what will happen.
All I know is I ordered my James Toney walkout T. Did you?