Would someone please direct me to an article or info on training for someone with kyphosis of the back?
thank you
I have rather severe kyphosis due to a compression fracture of T8 a couple of years ago after being hit by a car while riding my bike. I have not found any really good articles except this:
If yours is due to a muscle imbalance, there is a lot of good information there. If it’s due to a spinal deformity like mine, then there are limitations that you will have to accept. Heavy squats are pretty much out for me since I cannot maintain any thing close to good form without a straight back, so I use a V-squat machine that takes the load off of my back. Anything that places a heavy axial load on my back can be painful, so I will do prone shrugs on the cable machine instead of heavy DB shrugs, for example. I go to the gym primairly to strengthen my back muscles, thus attaining a somewhat better posture, and loosen up my spine by doing stretches like “camel stretches” and foam rolling. I probably do 2X the intensity/work on my back as I do on my chest, and always stretch my chest to prevent tightening. I have been to several therapists and tried different medications to relieve the cronic pain in my back, but the only thing that seems help is working my back hard at the gym.
Is this a muscularly influenced kyphosis or skeletal structural issue?
In addition to suggestions above, and going along with BBB, find a qualified therapist who uses substantial manual skills. Manual mobilizations to the T-spine, proper muscle activation, and mobility drills to the correct area will all help if done properly.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I suggest that your ‘therapists’ are not up to scratch.
BBB[/quote]
Don’t get me wrong - the last therapist I saw actually set me up with an excellent workout plan for my back and adhering to that has helped immensely. He also did quite a bit of massaging that helped at least temporarily. I just wasn’t willing to see him on an ongoing basis when I could do just about as much on my own. I’ve got to the point where the pain is manageable now, but I don’t believe I’ll ever be cured completely.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I suggest that your ‘therapists’ are not up to scratch.
BBB[/quote]
Don’t get me wrong - the last therapist I saw actually set me up with an excellent workout plan for my back and adhering to that has helped immensely. He also did quite a bit of massaging that helped at least temporarily. I just wasn’t willing to see him on an ongoing basis when I could do just about as much on my own. I’ve got to the point where the pain is manageable now, but I don’t believe I’ll ever be cured completely.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
[quote]pcdude wrote:
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I suggest that your ‘therapists’ are not up to scratch.
BBB[/quote]
Don’t get me wrong - the last therapist I saw actually set me up with an excellent workout plan for my back and adhering to that has helped immensely. He also did quite a bit of massaging that helped at least temporarily. I just wasn’t willing to see him on an ongoing basis when I could do just about as much on my own. I’ve got to the point where the pain is manageable now, but I don’t believe I’ll ever be cured completely.
[/quote]
No offence but how do you truly know it was an ‘excellent’ plan?
Post it here and I will critique for you 
BBB[/quote]
O.K. here goes:
A bit of background - my compression fracture was in T8, resulting in a 30% reduction in the “front” part of the vertebrea, or about 1 cm. I believe this is called a “wedge” compression fracture. It is now fully healed, but has left me with chronic pain that radiates out from the middle of my back. Oddly enough, I do not experience pain when lifting weights. Most of the time the pain is onset by doing normal household activities like dishes or yardwork - anytime I am standing for a long period with an axial load on my spine. My spine is very stiff, especially in the thoracic area, and manual techniques along with heat has helped some, but have had limited success. For example, just laying down on a stiff bench takes some working into at times.
Here are the techniques that my last PT added to my plan, and have seemed to help quite a bit as long as I do them on a regular basis:
stabilization/abs (2X/week):
pelvic tilts
“dying bugs”
bicycles
bridges with/without balls
planks
mobilization (every workout):
cat/camel
foam rolling on floor with back on roller
stretches (every workout):
one-arm wall stretch
two-arm doorway stretch
back stretch where you are on all fours with hands together (forgot the name)
seated stretches with hands together in front/back (forgot this name as well)
exercises (mostly on back day):
one-arm dumbell rows (keeping back straight as possible)
cable rows (keeping back straight as possible)
reverse flyes (prone lying face down on bench with DBs, or using rear delt machine with neutral grip)
face pulls
I also do BW pullups, shrugs, and bent-over BB rows as part of my back day. On my chest day, I try to work in at least one set of back for every chest exercise (usually a row). I always stretch my chest (on all days) and as I currently do a 3 day split, so I will do a full back day 1-2 times per week if I make it to the gym 4-5 times per week.
I would like to start working in deadlifts again, and have tried some light loads, but it just does not feel right - maybe I am just afraid of injuring myself again.
Thanks for any suggestions for improvement.
From the looks of what you posted from your initial therapy sessions, the one thing I see severely lacking is hands on mobilization techniques. Massage is great, but if they are not doing any other manual therapies, you won’t see as great of a benefit, IMO.
[quote]LevelHeaded wrote:
From the looks of what you posted from your initial therapy sessions, the one thing I see severely lacking is hands on mobilization techniques. Massage is great, but if they are not doing any other manual therapies, you won’t see as great of a benefit, IMO.[/quote]
Not quite sure what manual therapies you are referring to, but my PT did do a lot of pushing and popping work, which did help at least for a short time, it just did not provide enough bang for the buck to warrant seeing him multiple times per week (or the expense). I’m looking for the best long-term solution, and the best I’ve found so far is hard work in the gym to strengthen and loosen up my back.
And by the way - sorry OP if I hijacked your thread. Hopefully reading about my journey through the world of kyphosis will help you as well.
WEll for another perspective and back to the original poster who’s gone walkabout
the initial assertion is not a universal truth - that structural kyphosis means there are limitations one has to accept.
not at all.
we are plastic people; our bones and muscles and tissue are reshaped by what we do all the time. And in keeping with the SAID principle, they adapt to what we do.
Long term strength work in the gym is fabulous for long term strength work. Is it optimal for better spine movement? maybe re-learning movement - active attention and practice - is better for that.
The workout that’s posted is pretty much that: a very muscle oriented work out. not movement practice per se.
Perhaps this is a bit of what LevelHeaded, an excellent coach, is getting at.
For the clients i work with, there are no foam rollers, and no stretching without movement. Stretching is very task specific, and in their movement work - and indeed with most of the athletes i coach, stretching just isn’t part of the package. That doesn’t make it wrong. It may mean, however, that it’s a big hammer that’s applied reflexively, rather than using more refined techniques/awarenesses.
The site of an issue is not always the source of an issue.
I’m happy to recommend some movement approaches if you or anyone is interested, but i’d also suggest that generalizing from one individual experience to a sense that this is the way it is for everyone, mayn’t be tenable. Glad that you’re finding stuff that works for you, though. that’s great. And what you’re doing includes a lot of movement with load; also great. A movement approach tries to help make sure the movements we’re drilling in are optimal and causing our systems to improve, rather than as gray cook says, add strength on top of dysfunction.
best
mc
Thanks for the responses. I will look into the suggestions.
One question I would like to get some advise on - as I mentioned in my post, I would like to start doing deadlifts again. Does anyone know of a reason that someone with structual kyphosis should not do deadlifts, and if not, are there any special precautions I should take?
Thanks for responding to my post everyone. Its great to hear from people who have kyphosis as well too. I apologize for going M.I.A in my thread, it wont happen again.
My kyphosis is due to bone not muscular issues. It was genetic not from injury and comes from my father’s side, and is a calcification of cartilage that occurred in puberty.
I too would like to know if it would be detrimental to focus on the olympic lifts, such as the deadlifts and squat?
If your sports-knowledgeable osteo or gp says go for it, then go for it. Just make sure that the person you’re speaking with knows lifting, oly lifting in particular, and can speak to this. I’ve worked with GP’s who don’t and would say a military press is a bad idea for anyone at any time for any kind of load. uh huh.
General principle: listen to your body - if there’s no pain, there’s no pain: your body is ok with what you’re doing.
now saying that - form also rules and pre-pain signals to guide performance for anyone - loss of control, loss of form, fatigue and all the effects of that - not painful but if not attended, will result in pain - SO
with oly lifting, particular principle - get an experienced coach who really knows how to teach these lifts. and focus on perfecting form.
This kind of work could be great for your bones and all your other tissue.
way to go.
mc