Tight Anterior Delt Help

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
1 
                Well I have a case of the tight ant/delt again. It's been around for a while now, and am really noticing it since taking a break. 

  I believe heavy benching contributed to it,(same old story), and am thinking chest muscles are stronger than the deeper smaller back muscles, causing the ant/delt to be pulled on. When I reach up towards the head and across to the opposite delt is when I really feel tightness and mild pain/weakness. Left delt hurt, right is ok.

       My plan of action is to cease any front/side delt work, replaced by more bent over rowing during back wkouts, and the delt wkout replaced by rear delt and rotator cuff work, infra/supra spinatus, rhomboid maj/minor.

        What can you guys add to this and how do you think this might help. I've stopped all barbell benching, tried some DB incline and flat, and even with angled hand placement etc. it seemed to increase the tightness/pain.

  So, I may have to stop all chest work altogether, and wanted your opinions on how this looks to you guys.

Any vets with past experience or knowledge, please help.

               thanks, ToneBone
2

Dante to the rescue again my man ToneBone…

Check out the sticky called something along the lines of “this will cure shoulder probelsm 90% of the time” It’s a progressively more difficult stretching motion and I think a couple weeks of that will get your front delt nice and limber.

3

[quote]Scott M wrote:
Dante to the rescue again my man ToneBone…

Check out the sticky called something along the lines of “this will cure shoulder probelsm 90% of the time” It’s a progressively more difficult stretching motion and I think a couple weeks of that will get your front delt nice and limber. [/quote]

         Ok, great Scott. I sometimes have a problem getting around on that site, I'll give it a go again though. Thanks a ton, you always pull through in the clutch bro. 

                 TBN
4

If you couldn’t find it or for the benefit of people who don’t know what site I’m talking about ha, here’s the original post…

With a large towel or broomstick I want you to hold it with straight arms for the entire time of what i describe in the following movement–a large “rolled up like a rope” beach towel works good but honestly a longer broomstick (without the bristles) works best in my opinion. Start out with it with a really wide grip (with straight arms) in front of you (on your quads) and with straight arms bring it up and overhead and then down and back to the middle of your back–STRAIGHT ARMS ALL THE WAY–

this is going to be very difficult and hard the first couple times out and then will be “old hat” with time----and its going to be painful in a stretching pump kind of way—i want 50 reps each time you do this–one repetition is from in front of your face (all with straight arms) to up overhead and back, and then down all the way to the middle of your back and then back up overhead to in front of your face again (again all with straight arms)–the important part of the movement is the area overhead that is really tight–do all of this carefully/slowly—

dont just whip it over and back—if your hand is slipping off the broomstick even with the widest grip, or you cant bring your arms over straight and the start bending on you, you have some serious shoulder inflexibility and need to work this hard and get up to speed (or you could just need a longer broomstick too)–again do all of these revolutions controlled and carefully–push into the stretch as you go along toward the 50 revolutions, your chest will be pushing outward and your shoulders rolling back–

your shoulders are going to blow up with so much blood its going to be incredibly painfull pumpwise–Do this once a day at nite as many times a week as you can—sometimes I have people do it every single day—but every time you do it try to move your grip inward (thats the key)----its going to be very hard to do but try your best to move your grip inward for the next 2-4 weeks and your range of motion with shoulders will increase dramatically and any impingement and the majority of other problems should be gone in 2 weeks–

also try to move your grip in as you are doing the 50 revolutions–start off with a stretching but relatively easy 10 to warm up some, then try to move your grip in even by a centimeter if you can for the next 20 revolutions and then at 30 try to move the grip in another centimeter–really try to push what you can do stretchwise once your warmed up here–trust me this sounds easy but your going to be muttering “fuck you dante” after you get to your 25th revolution–

Ive cured too many shoulder problems with this simple movement now its pretty ridiculous, and this and a menthol rub applied liberally daily and before sleep has cured alot of shoulder/bicepital tendonitis in trainees

5

I’ve had this too. I did lots of stretching, avoided any barbell work and changed the push to pull ratio to about 1:3.

I also added in some external rotator work and now I’m good as new.

I still avoid BBs for the most part but I can use them pain free.

6

[quote]Sxio wrote:
I’ve had this too. I did lots of stretching, avoided any barbell work and changed the push to pull ratio to about 1:3.

I also added in some external rotator work and now I’m good as new.

I still avoid BBs for the most part but I can use them pain free. [/quote]

         Thanks Sxio, I will try the ratio you mention. And the external rotator work, what were you doing? L Flyes etc? Just curious to your particular regimen bro.

                 Thanks again.
                    ToneBone
7

[quote]Scott M wrote:
If you couldn’t find it or for the benefit of people who don’t know what site I’m talking about ha, here’s the original post…

With a large towel or broomstick I want you to hold it with straight arms for the entire time of what i describe in the following movement–a large “rolled up like a rope” beach towel works good but honestly a longer broomstick (without the bristles) works best in my opinion. Start out with it with a really wide grip (with straight arms) in front of you (on your quads) and with straight arms bring it up and overhead and then down and back to the middle of your back–STRAIGHT ARMS ALL THE WAY–

this is going to be very difficult and hard the first couple times out and then will be “old hat” with time----and its going to be painful in a stretching pump kind of way—i want 50 reps each time you do this–one repetition is from in front of your face (all with straight arms) to up overhead and back, and then down all the way to the middle of your back and then back up overhead to in front of your face again (again all with straight arms)–the important part of the movement is the area overhead that is really tight–do all of this carefully/slowly—

dont just whip it over and back—if your hand is slipping off the broomstick even with the widest grip, or you cant bring your arms over straight and the start bending on you, you have some serious shoulder inflexibility and need to work this hard and get up to speed (or you could just need a longer broomstick too)–again do all of these revolutions controlled and carefully–push into the stretch as you go along toward the 50 revolutions, your chest will be pushing outward and your shoulders rolling back–

your shoulders are going to blow up with so much blood its going to be incredibly painfull pumpwise–Do this once a day at nite as many times a week as you can—sometimes I have people do it every single day—but every time you do it try to move your grip inward (thats the key)----its going to be very hard to do but try your best to move your grip inward for the next 2-4 weeks and your range of motion with shoulders will increase dramatically and any impingement and the majority of other problems should be gone in 2 weeks–

also try to move your grip in as you are doing the 50 revolutions–start off with a stretching but relatively easy 10 to warm up some, then try to move your grip in even by a centimeter if you can for the next 20 revolutions and then at 30 try to move the grip in another centimeter–really try to push what you can do stretchwise once your warmed up here–trust me this sounds easy but your going to be muttering “fuck you dante” after you get to your 25th revolution–

Ive cured too many shoulder problems with this simple movement now its pretty ridiculous, and this and a menthol rub applied liberally daily and before sleep has cured alot of shoulder/bicepital tendonitis in trainees [/quote]

          Ahhhhh hahaha, I found this long ago, and I always do it Scott. But I had forgotten Dantes exact nighttime protocol. I'll definitely do it every night for 50 reps. I got pretty good at this, and every time I warm up I hit around 10-20 reps, sometimes between a few sets during chest or delts as well. And I actually can go pretty narrow, but will really get after it now. I'll do the 50 reps each night or every other night until it gets better. That and the ext rotator work with increased deep, small back muscle work, and hopefully that will have me up and running again. I should probably start icing the bastard several times a day I guess for inflammation too.

          Thanks though, great article, and I remember the first time I tried that and thought, "shit I can't do this?!!". LOL. It's a great one, I just had forgotten what that exact protocol was, and now will go for it.

          have a great Friday, Scott and thanks again.
                 ToneBone
8

All this “Dante” and “Doggcrapp” talk finally forced me to find this covert website that’s mentioned, but never posted. Lots of good info there, and I’ll be sure to add this shoulder stretching protocol to my toolbox. Lord knows I need all the help I can get. Thanks for making me curious!

9

Shhhh Doug, don’t let our secret out ok?

10

One of these days I’m going to get my thoughts into one post haha.

Another great thing for shoulders if you have access to them is the band traction work EliteFTS posted recently with Dick Hartzel(sp?). I couldn’t believe the looseness and mobility I had after a couple minute session of this. I used to get tremendous pain even trying to warmup a pullover motion, now I can use actual weight and go through the motion pain free.

Can you guys tell I have problems with my shoudlers? ha

11

I use this anterior shoulder capsule stretch before benching. Got it from Defranco’s site. It helps a lot.

You’ll see it in the link below: http://www.defrancostraining.com/ask_joe/archives/ask_joe_08-12-05.htm

12

[quote]Reef wrote:
I use this anterior shoulder capsule stretch before benching. Got it from Defranco’s site. It helps a lot.

You’ll see it in the link below: http://www.defrancostraining.com/ask_joe/archives/ask_joe_08-12-05.htm [/quote]

         Whoa, great group of responses! You guys are delt savers man! Thanks Scott and Reef, the help is greatly appreciated. 

       This thread is doing great, wasn't sure how many peeps would help me out over here. I knew Scott would.

                Awesome!
                 ToneBone
13

I just tried 50 reps of the broomstick stretching motion and all I have to say is…

…ow. (In a good way)

14

Ow is right haha, the real fun begins when you start moving your hands in on the stick. That normal “Golly this is getting easier I’m so relieved” doesn’t happen and in reality it hurts more(still stretching pump hurt) but you’ll loosen the shoulder up pretty fast. My suggestion is to use athletic tape to mark where you were last time or else you will likely forget or cheat yourself.

16

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
TB: It’s quite possible that what you have is not a tight anterior delt, but a tendonopathy in the rotator cuff/long head of biceps. Or you may have some AC joint issues.

The reason I say this is because you say you feel pain when reaching up and across. I can’t think of a reason why that would cause pain in an ant. delt, yet many reasons why that movement might cause pain.

@Tight’ muscles do not cause pain when they contract, though the myotendinous junction, the tendon and the insertion on the periosteum all have the potential to evoke pain during muscle contraction.

The pain provoking position you describe is similar to an orthopaedic test for shoulder pathology, that approximates the supraspinatus tendon with the coracoacromio ligament.

To give you a visual, t’s similar to an upright row finishing positon, if that’s what you are talking about.

Bushy[/quote]

          It was initially noticed when in the shower and your sudsing up the opposite delt and/or armpit, in so that if you were flexing your bicep but keeping the elbow out in front of you so it's in a sagittal plane, then bringing the fist down towards the ground so there is a 90 degree angle on the elbow, and the forearm is then at about a 45 degree angle toward the opposite arm(r). From that point further holding those angles with the upper arm moving even closer to the chin was producing pain/stiffness on it's origin of the lateral third of the clavicle. That's as best as I can describe it mate. 

        It's been feeling better in that area last day or so, and the other has been acting up on me a bit too now. LOL. There has been a popping sound/feel to the left for quite some time now whenever I do side laterals, you know the kind, not painful but somewhat annoying and slightly uncomfortable. I have had to forgo all lifting for about a couple weeks, save a little diddy here and there to get the studying done for this next exam. I only really have the time for training when the kid is down for the nap in general. And this has had to cease to allow for maximum studying time for this uber difficult exam.

          Anyhow, hope that is better indicitave of what's going on. Seems to get riled up on heavy benching,(maximum effort) type training. That's why I assumed it was anterior delt. It feels like the delt, and physically that is the part that was hurting. The extra rest seems to be kicking in finally. That and I began uber ingestion of fish oil again to help. So, it seems to have helped. It had been buggin for a while back and wasn't getting worse, so I kept at it. And when I had to take this recent break, it became more apparent especially had been feeling tight on the movements described earlier in post.

          As always thanks for the help, and if you reprognose it, by all means repost champ.
                ToneBone
17

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
TB: It’s quite possible that what you have is not a tight anterior delt, but a tendonopathy in the rotator cuff/long head of biceps. Or you may have some AC joint issues.

The reason I say this is because you say you feel pain when reaching up and across. I can’t think of a reason why that would cause pain in an ant. delt, yet many reasons why that movement might cause pain.

@Tight’ muscles do not cause pain when they contract, though the myotendinous junction, the tendon and the insertion on the periosteum all have the potential to evoke pain during muscle contraction.

The pain provoking position you describe is similar to an orthopaedic test for shoulder pathology, that approximates the supraspinatus tendon with the coracoacromio ligament.

To give you a visual, t’s similar to an upright row finishing positon, if that’s what you are talking about.

Bushy[/quote]

        Hey Bush, don't know what happened, but my post never got posted...hmmmm. I'll say it again. It feels especially tight when holding the left arm in a bicep flex position, with the upper arm parallel to the ground, and elbow at a 90 degree angle. If from here, I try to raise the upper arm, it's a bit tight. If I drop the fist towards the opposite delt to about a 45 degree angle and then raise the upper arm more towards the chin, again tightness and slight pain in the ant portion of the left delt. The pain is at the point of origin on the lateral third of the clavicle. 

 There has also been, for quite some time now, the annoying but not painful pop, or snap type sound in the joint when doing side laterals on the left side in same delt. This of course has been going on since before this recent episode of tightness/uncomfortable feeling in said delt. If you get back on this one, maybe you know about the joint noise, I don't really go as heavy on side laterals for this reason, fronts don't make the noise, and occasionaly on rear delt raises it will do it. 

       It has made progress since taking this long break from training due to study priority situation, and the mess from a while back. But the noise seems to be here for the long haul. I haven't been able to get rid of that yet. After this exam on Tues, I will be training regularly again, and plan on prioritizing the rear delts, and smaller synergistic muscles of the back/rotator cuff, in hopes of making the whole shoulder joint more comfortable again. I will probably leave direct front/side delt work out still for a while until I know things are good to go with it. Any more opinions greatly appreciated of course.

            Thanks for the help B.
                  TBN
18

Hey guys, great thread, I’ve gotten two new ideas for my shoulder stretching.

My shoulders were FUBARed, both operated on and I have made more of a recovery than anyone told me was possilbe. I have been driven nearly insane by PT Nazi's who will engage in fist fights over static vs. dynamic stretching and other insane arguments.

Personally, I do three static stretches (arm across the body,arm up and over head, and arm behind the body) and will add the capsule stretch. I have been doing dynamic stetches starting with arm circles and then doing broomstick work (but not the 50 rep way, I'll try that.) Then the rehab exercies are critical, several rotator cuff excercises, and pulling a lot more than pushing.

With all this, I got myself back to being able to lift overhead again, presses and now just getting back to jerks. I trained both OL and PL, but OL is my greater passion.

My shoulders still are stiff, and they recently started hurting at the heavier sets of power cleans and squat cleans. I'll see how far I can get with the 50 rep broomstick thing, but any other ideas would be appreciated. Thanks.                         Doc
20

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Tone, check this out:

http://meded.ucsd.edu/isp/2005/orthopedic/Exam%20Techniques/hawkins_test.htm

This shows the test I mean, and sounds very similar to your description of the movement pattern that causes pain.

Further; your description of a ‘popping’ sound/feeling from the shoulder indicates rotator cuff instability.

I would leave those broomstick stretches alone for the moment and start improving yuor shoulder stability, before you degenerate your shoulders any more.

Bushy[/quote]

               I will go on a shoulder stabilizing mission, and try and keep a different log on how that goes to help spread the word on it's effectiveness when someone has these types of problems. I know it works, as it is what I concentrated on in the initial stages of my middle age "comeback". When I first began lifting again about 3 years ago, I had a cuff impingement type problem on the right delt, from years of swinging a paint gun out at arms length, quickly and accurately. This jacked up my delt pretty bad after about 12+ years of continuous motion in that range. The rehab worked well, but as I got better and stronger and moved on to the traditional delt lifts, it was put on the back burner, as I thought things had settled. It appears I will have to go through the motions of rehab for both again, and this time I will never let the smaller groups be overshadowed again in my future workouts. Hopefully that will enable me to continue making better progress. Train smart. Lesson learned. 

                  Thanks bro.
                    TBN