Tight Anterior Delt Help

Tone, a lot of good info is in this thread. Speaking from a host of shoulder injuries myself, and my academic background, I will agree with most everything said in this thread. Since most of the posts here were really good, I’m pretty much just repeating what they said:

The pain and tightness is likely from a muscular imbalance, and could be a small accumulation of inflammation. The popping sound is likely a bit of instability as Bushy said, but doesn’t necessarily mean the joint is lax, but could be due to the imbalance as well. It is very likely a combination of the two–something is tight and something is loose, probably from overuse of something.

I would suggest doing all of the above stretches–broomstick up and over the shoulders (I actually use a non-stretchy band of fabric, basically a nylon strap, as it allows more freedom of wrist motion, and is better for portability), the joint capsule stretch on the website, and actually the same type of stretch but in other planes of movement, and of course general pec/lat/tri stretches. In fact I’ve had multiple athletes tell me they either can’t press as much weight or can’t press at all pain free without doing the should shoulder up and over stretch (broomstick).

the other thing you need to do is stabilize the joint a bit more. Do internal and external rotation movements using DBs and/or bands. The YTWL exercise is also good. You likely need to focus on the external rotation movements for the time being, though perhaps not. If by doing too many external rotational movements you experience pain, balance it out with more internal rotation movements. You may need to improve overall joint stability, and not just external rotational stability. Basically, if what you start with works, keep doing it, if not, try something else, but don’t stop doing something.

It sounds stupid, but make sure you’re hips and back extensors are flexible enough as to not impede movement. Abdominal strength and general core stability can also work wonders, as the whole body is connected. This part of my advice won’t 100% help your problem, but it will make a small contribution to overall function to have lower body and core flexibility/stability.

The 2:1 or 3:1 pull:push is a good idea, at least until the pain from pushing goes away. When that happens resume normal loading, and don’t try to go overboard with the pushing to compensate for the time off. I think a bit better advice than this is to make sure you’re balancing internal and external rotation, as some benching and pulldown movements can be either internal or external depending on how you do the exercise. I would suggest doing more rowing exercises than pulldowns for the back, at least 2:1. Similarly, ditch the BB for pressing movements, at least 2:1 DB:BB. This isn’t necessarily an ongoing necessity, but it certainly would be good until your shoulder gets better.

After the pain goes away don’t stop doing these things. Pain is not a reliable indicator of injury recovery, as the remodeling process takes some time to complete after the pain dissipates. Once you are healed up and pain free, you can lower the volume of stretching and strengthening exercises to maintenance levels, but I assure you if you have a chronic injury and you stop doing them completely, the injury will come back at some point.

Good luck.

[quote]Schwarzenegger wrote:
Tone, a lot of good info is in this thread. Speaking from a host of shoulder injuries myself, and my academic background, I will agree with most everything said in this thread. Since most of the posts here were really good, I’m pretty much just repeating what they said:

The pain and tightness is likely from a muscular imbalance, and could be a small accumulation of inflammation. The popping sound is likely a bit of instability as Bushy said, but doesn’t necessarily mean the joint is lax, but could be due to the imbalance as well. It is very likely a combination of the two–something is tight and something is loose, probably from overuse of something.

I would suggest doing all of the above stretches–broomstick up and over the shoulders (I actually use a non-stretchy band of fabric, basically a nylon strap, as it allows more freedom of wrist motion, and is better for portability), the joint capsule stretch on the website, and actually the same type of stretch but in other planes of movement, and of course general pec/lat/tri stretches. In fact I’ve had multiple athletes tell me they either can’t press as much weight or can’t press at all pain free without doing the should shoulder up and over stretch (broomstick).

the other thing you need to do is stabilize the joint a bit more. Do internal and external rotation movements using DBs and/or bands. The YTWL exercise is also good. You likely need to focus on the external rotation movements for the time being, though perhaps not. If by doing too many external rotational movements you experience pain, balance it out with more internal rotation movements. You may need to improve overall joint stability, and not just external rotational stability. Basically, if what you start with works, keep doing it, if not, try something else, but don’t stop doing something.

It sounds stupid, but make sure you’re hips and back extensors are flexible enough as to not impede movement. Abdominal strength and general core stability can also work wonders, as the whole body is connected. This part of my advice won’t 100% help your problem, but it will make a small contribution to overall function to have lower body and core flexibility/stability.

The 2:1 or 3:1 pull:push is a good idea, at least until the pain from pushing goes away. When that happens resume normal loading, and don’t try to go overboard with the pushing to compensate for the time off. I think a bit better advice than this is to make sure you’re balancing internal and external rotation, as some benching and pulldown movements can be either internal or external depending on how you do the exercise. I would suggest doing more rowing exercises than pulldowns for the back, at least 2:1. Similarly, ditch the BB for pressing movements, at least 2:1 DB:BB. This isn’t necessarily an ongoing necessity, but it certainly would be good until your shoulder gets better.

After the pain goes away don’t stop doing these things. Pain is not a reliable indicator of injury recovery, as the remodeling process takes some time to complete after the pain dissipates. Once you are healed up and pain free, you can lower the volume of stretching and strengthening exercises to maintenance levels, but I assure you if you have a chronic injury and you stop doing them completely, the injury will come back at some point.

Good luck.[/quote]

            Beautifully written. 

Thanks for that extremely concise and thorough advice Schwarz. I will do exactly those things you mentioned.

         That sounds very accurate to what is going on.

                  ToneBone

It sounds like an impingement/biceps tendonitis issue. In my opinion, the best way to handle that is to work on shoulder stability as well as anterior shoulder flexibility and posterior shoulder stregnthening. The positioning you talked about your shoulder bothering you sounds like either a modified Neer’s Test and Hawkins Kennedy Test.

What happens with your shoulder is that due to the instability in your shoulder, your biceps tendon and rotator cuff become inflamed. Also, the biceps tendon runs through the subacromial space, which is already a small space. Add in the inflammation and the anterior shoulder tightness minimizing the space even more, pain and popping sensations result. So in order to increase the space, you need to increase the ROM in the area and increase the stability as well.

A lot of people have given great advise already. To sum it all up: increase anterior shoulder flexibility, increase stability, and increase the balance of strength with the posterior shoulder musculature.

-LH

[quote]LevelHeaded wrote:
It sounds like an impingement/biceps tendonitis issue. In my opinion, the best way to handle that is to work on shoulder stability as well as anterior shoulder flexibility and posterior shoulder stregnthening. The positioning you talked about your shoulder bothering you sounds like either a modified Neer’s Test and Hawkins Kennedy Test.

What happens with your shoulder is that due to the instability in your shoulder, your biceps tendon and rotator cuff become inflamed. Also, the biceps tendon runs through the subacromial space, which is already a small space. Add in the inflammation and the anterior shoulder tightness minimizing the space even more, pain and popping sensations result. So in order to increase the space, you need to increase the ROM in the area and increase the stability as well.

A lot of people have given great advise already. To sum it all up: increase anterior shoulder flexibility, increase stability, and increase the balance of strength with the posterior shoulder musculature.

-LH[/quote]

           Right, thanks for stopping by. It looks like I was on the right track initially with my amateur somewhat general hypothesis about the situation. Now, thanks to a lot of quality intelligent posts by my tnation brothers, I have a solid, well planned attack to commence on for the stabilization and health of my delts, which in turn will not only keep me going with all of my training, but only improve the whole spectrum of gains I will be making in the future. 

    What a great place to make fantastic and helpful friends this site has been. This has been a most educational, and interesting, internet "ride" this last year in particular. I've met and made friends with some incredibly intelligent and thoughtful people, who have consistantly gone out of their way to help me with a whole host of questions on a wide range of topics from, training, to AAS, to nootropics for helping my studies. 

        There is no way I could have gotten one tenth the information and education if it weren't for this site. Not to mention the great friends who have lifted my spirits, when the chips were down whether that might have been personal, or relating to bodybuilding and those topics. Thanks for the fantastic feelings of happiness I've had this past year as a direct result of these "educators" freely discussing and advising me on all of the above. Bushy, Schwarz, Dhuge67, 2thepain, lil guy, ScottM, chillain, firestangt, disc Hoss, Johnny blaze, buffd samurai, juice20jd, and Hagar. This site is lucky to have these guys here, and I'm lucky to have been one of many who has been helped by their friendship and help. 

     Here's to the next year of learning!! :)

                  ToneBone

[quote]Scott M wrote:
Ow is right haha, the real fun begins when you start moving your hands in on the stick. That normal “Golly this is getting easier I’m so relieved” doesn’t happen and in reality it hurts more(still stretching pump hurt) but you’ll loosen the shoulder up pretty fast. My suggestion is to use athletic tape to mark where you were last time or else you will likely forget or cheat yourself. [/quote]

That’s a good tip, thanks. I’ve been doing the stretch every day, and it hasn’t gotten any easier. One thing I have noticed is I’m getting a little more definition in my shoulders. Nothing big, but it is noticeable and a pleasant surprise.

           ToneBone's Delt Reconstruction:

Shoulder capsule stretch and Dantes broom stretch every workout day. This is way scaled down in intensity/volume.

Day 1:(Workout A)
L-Flys superset w/Scapular plane lateral raises
3X12-15
Prone internal rotators 3X12
Cuban rotations 3X12-15
YTWL-3X8-12
Leg Curls 4X10-15
Seated Calf Raise 4X15

Day 2: Light cardio 20 min
Reverse crunches/DB side bends 3X15 ea. supersets

Day 3: (Workout B)
Squats 4X15
Bent Over Rows 4X15
Standing Curls 4X10-12
DB Incline Extensions 4X12-15

Day 4: Light cardio 20 min
Crunches/Oblique Crunches/Reverse Crunches
3 circuits of 12 reps

Day 5: (Workout A)

Day 6: Light cardio (day 2)

Day 7: (Workout B)

Day 8: Light cardio (day 4)

Day 9: (Workout C) Light weight-12-15 reps on each.
DB Flat Bench
(elbows in 45 deg.to torso)(V or neutral grip with hands)
DB Decline Bench
DB Incline Flys

Day 10: Repeat with Workout A.

         After a couple weeks or a month I'll increase weight/decrease reps on the other body part movements.

   Hopefully after a month of this things will be improving nicely, and can readjust intensity and workout  slowly toward a more complete workout with some ant/side delt work added in small amounts.

    I haven't been able to workout at all for several weeks really so this will be fine IMO for a while. Purposely left out any deadlift variation for at least a month to just leave the delts alone with these exercises. Just don't want a lot of weight pulling on those puppies for now. So there it is boys. Let me know what you think, but this is it as far as I'm concerned.

                    ToneBone

This thread has been outstanding, and has helped me in two ways immediately. First, I was recently experiencing a new shoulder pain, and I found I replicated the pain with the anterior capsule stretch. Capsular pain is different, its deeper, and not grinding like my familiar rotator cuff impingement. I would get it at the ends of heavy power clean and squat clean workouts. The stretch is helping already.

Secondly, the broom stretch I knew about thirty years ago as an OL, but forgot. I have been working for five months to get flexible enough to squat snatch again, and I thought I was still a month away from being able to do them. Doing the broom stretch for three days gave me that last 5-10% shoulder flexiblity I needed to squat snatch. I was AMAZED. Thanks.   Doc

Glad to hear, sometimes when a nice guy asks for help we can all forget what raging jerks we all are in our personal lives and help out haha.

[quote]Scott M wrote:
Glad to hear, sometimes when a nice guy asks for help we can all forget what raging jerks we all are in our personal lives and help out haha. [/quote]

       Well that's how it's supposed to be anyway. I've found that as a poster, when you respect the other people here, and treat them with dignity, then you get answers and dialogue like we have here on this thread.

It’s not that people can’t get away with noobed out questions so much as the way they word them and respond to other people. Many a jackass has lost out on valuable and hard to get information, simply because of the immature way they handle themselves on this site. And unfortunately they seem hard wired into acting like that, even when told of it’s negative impact on their questions etc.

       Thanks for all the support dudes, I know this is quite a stretch from the normal routine I usually do, but that doesn't bother me, I've lost a little muscle, but not that much really, and I'd rather be in a healthy state and able to continue, than to be stupid and keep at it until something turns into a much worse and chronic condition. 

Fact is I’ve almost done that a few times over the years, and always back off when it happens. The thing I’m going to do different now is keep some of these particular delt exercises as a constant, and keep from adding too many of the known delt “mass” builders too quickly, since they recieve so much fucking work from all of the compounds we all love so much.

So, again, thanks for the compliments Scott, and everyone who has posted here. You guys are part of what makes a great site.

       I'll start keeping progress reports on the delts if you guys are interested in that. Let me know.

                 ToneBone