Thoughts on Mark Rippetoe?

Training
101

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

I’m pretty sure the point of AAS is so you could train more frequently, so something like SS would be garbage (not to mention it leaves out a lot of muscles)

[/quote]

I know, right. Like take this guy, Andy Bolton, for example, who trains three days per week. What’s the point of his ergogenic aids if all he does is train three days a week for a 1,000 pound deadlift and squat. [/quote]

i heard he does starting strength

1x5 deadlifts every week

why don’t you go back to your 50 lb limit theory post

102

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

I’m pretty sure the point of AAS is so you could train more frequently, so something like SS would be garbage (not to mention it leaves out a lot of muscles)

[/quote]

I know, right. Like take this guy, Andy Bolton, for example, who trains three days per week. What’s the point of his ergogenic aids if all he does is train three days a week for a 1,000 pound deadlift and squat. [/quote]

i heard he does starting strength

1x5 deadlifts every week

why don’t you go back to your 50 lb limit theory post[/quote]

I only train deads once a week, with only one set. I’m a big fan of it.

Although I suppose technically I actually only train deads once every 2 months, and the rest of the time it’s just one set of mat pulls. Still good though.

103

You’re really starting to fall apart in this thread.

The responses are becoming circular and making less sense every time you hit the submit button.

Maybe it’s time to admit this isn’t going so well for defending arguments (to paraphrase a virtual encyclopedia of inane blabber) like holistic lifts don’t affect the body holistically,
that people who squat and dead and clean are lazy
Ripptoe-style exercise leaves you with small arms
and that heavy pulls and supporting big squats don’t stimulate the torso to adapt to the workload by becoming larger and stronger.

PS: we also really landed on the moon and the world isn’t flat.

Lift how you want to lift, by all means, (you SHOULD do what you love) but don’t post this BS about proven programs on a forum where newer lifters might think Tiger Face Man knows what he’s talking about.

104

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

people who recommend SS or do SS are just lazy and don’t want to get on a real routine

[/quote]

This guy recommends starting strength and is obviously weak, lazy, and underdeveloped.[/quote]

doesn’t look like he lifts

i thought this was a bodybuilding forum
[/quote]

It’s not.

105

[quote]pulphero wrote:

holistic lifts don’t affect the body holistically,

that people who squat and dead and clean are lazy

Ripptoe-style exercise leaves you with small arms and that heavy pulls and supporting big squats don’t stimulate the torso to adapt to the workload by becoming larger and stronger.[/quote]

i agree with this

afk saying john grimek only does db press and squats and doesn’t do bicep curls, then retracting my inaccurate statements

106

[quote]csulli wrote:
I never realized so many people had problems with milk lol. I guess I have an iron stomach. I drink between a half gallon and a gallon of milk everyday without even trying. I just like milk. I’ve drank it straight out of the jug like that for like as long as I can remember. Not all of it is just straight drinking. I make protein shakes with it and have cereal and stuff, but between all that I go through a pretty massive quantity of milk. I used to eat a pint of ice cream almost every day in addition to that lol. I don’t do that anymore, but I never had digestion problems. Guess I shoulda been a competitive milk drinker.[/quote]

haha brilliant

107

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

[quote]pulphero wrote:

holistic lifts don’t affect the body holistically,

that people who squat and dead and clean are lazy

Ripptoe-style exercise leaves you with small arms and that heavy pulls and supporting big squats don’t stimulate the torso to adapt to the workload by becoming larger and stronger.[/quote]

i agree with this

afk saying john grimek only does db press and squats and doesn’t do bicep curls, then retracting my inaccurate statements[/quote]

Where did Rippetoe ever suggest not doing curls? I’ve read quite the contrary from him: if you want big arms, do curls, but if you want to be big overall, put the majority of your focus on the squat, pulls, and presses.

“To begin with, let’s not construct weird scenarios to deal with – we’re not going to be on a deserted island with our CD player and only 3 CDs, so we don’t have to choose which ones to take. We get to do both exercises if we need to, so we will, especially if we’re intermediate trainees like you suggest. The disruption of homeostasis already occurs with successful training, which we’re still doing. So if you want big arms and you’ve trained through the novice phase when they’re growing accidentally anyway, you curl the barbell because it lets you stress the biceps more specifically. You do this precisely because it doesn’t spread the work around a bunch of other muscles. Let’s not be complicated and philosophical when we’re just training arms.” -Rippetoe

108

[quote]davyboy wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:
I never realized so many people had problems with milk lol. I guess I have an iron stomach. I drink between a half gallon and a gallon of milk everyday without even trying. I just like milk. I’ve drank it straight out of the jug like that for like as long as I can remember. Not all of it is just straight drinking. I make protein shakes with it and have cereal and stuff, but between all that I go through a pretty massive quantity of milk. I used to eat a pint of ice cream almost every day in addition to that lol. I don’t do that anymore, but I never had digestion problems. Guess I shoulda been a competitive milk drinker.[/quote]

haha brilliant[/quote]

Good Lord! :slight_smile:

109

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

[quote]pulphero wrote:

holistic lifts don’t affect the body holistically,

that people who squat and dead and clean are lazy

Ripptoe-style exercise leaves you with small arms and that heavy pulls and supporting big squats don’t stimulate the torso to adapt to the workload by becoming larger and stronger.[/quote]

i agree with this

afk saying john grimek only does db press and squats and doesn’t do bicep curls, then retracting my inaccurate statements[/quote]

Where did Rippetoe ever suggest not doing curls? I’ve read quite the contrary from him: if you want big arms, do curls, but if you want to be big overall, put the majority of your focus on the squat, pulls, and presses.
[/quote]

i don’t know what rippetoe said, but pulphero seems to think doing deadlifts will give you biceps

and makes bullshit statements like “if you lift X lbs you will be huge automatically”…no knowledge of bodybuilding

110

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

[quote]pulphero wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

[quote]pulphero wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

No muscles missing, are you a troll? Will your arms grow if your bench increases from 135 - 275, yes… but not nearly as much as if you actually trained arms

people who recommend SS or do SS are just lazy and don’t want to get on a real routine

lol at thinking you are going to get huge from drugs + SS

how will drugs help on a routine that is so low volume and low frequency, and neglects most of your body?

[/quote]

Your thinking is warped in a way I’m not getting. There are literally no muscles not receiving stimulus from these lifts. Go to ExRx and look at the muscles used–hell pick a site with some kinesiology in-put, anyone you want if you think that one is crap and you’ll easily see systemic exercises work…wait for it…systemically.

Drugs will help on a program of low volume and low frequency in a very easy and common way. Instead of sarcoplasmic balloon BS pump masturbation you cause damage to the muscle fibers. Deep trauma caused by heavy weight for low reps. The juice heightens protein synthesis beyond normal healing levels and you have much thicker fibers (which equals bigger muscles).

You needed this explained to you? You don’t even seem to know what you don’t know. Google John Grimek who predates the 1953 introduction of juice and see what a routine of basically just squats and DB presses built. Once you see the images imagine what that physique would have looked like on as little as 20mg of D-bol a day.

How can you not understand this?[/quote]

stimulus, maybe… adequate stimulus, no

i see people on strength routines with tiny arms, calves, legs… all because of their low rep range and intentionally neglecting muscle

so drugs change the kind of hypertrophy you get while doing the same exact routine, interesting… I guess you need the elevated protein synthesis for doing the same exact routine that people w/o steroids seem to have no trouble recovering from

John Grimek wasn’t doing just squats and DB presses, lol

maybe with another 20 years of training you might have a clue[/quote]

Nothing you wrote made sense. AAS speed recover of damaged fibers. Low volume, low frequency but heavy work causes damage. AAS help heal. This is something you don’t get?

The bodily response between sarcoplasmic swelling and thickened fibers from repaired damage is something you also don’t get? Really?

You think calves aren’t worked in dead, cleans, and squats? Work 'em first then go do the big exercises–see how they feel. Hell see if you can complete a squat set with pre=fatigued calves You’ll thank me for your education and it won’t even take you 20 years to catch up.

I’ll leave The Grimek out of it for now–I was making a point about how he spent large chunks of his training time as an illustration but it got off track and I wasn’t typing as clear as I needed to. It did sound like that was all I thought he did when I only meant he devoted months at times only doing those things. I’ll take the mea culpa on the bad communication.[/quote]

again, why would you need AAS to run SS?

I’m pretty sure the point of AAS is so you could train more frequently, so something like SS would be garbage (not to mention it leaves out a lot of muscles)

if you think 3x5 squats are enough for calves you are really dumb, I don’t know what else to say…

maybe dumb people who run SS really believe this garbage though (they tend to have tiny calves as well)
[/quote]

You need to quit while you’re behind. Way behind.[/quote]

He has got to be somebody’s sock puppet…maybe HeadHunter?

More negative than Yolo and talking a lot of shit, with nothing but tigerface avi to back it up.

Interesting.

111

[quote]pulphero wrote:
This is the Starting Strength program people think is crap? I used GOMAD 20rep squats, bench press singles, and Yates Rows for 5x5 for a year to go from 145 to 190 at 5’8" and man the milk was GREAT! And I don’t pay 6$ for it–more like 3.50$. Someone is going to the wrong store.

But THIS is causing arguments? Really?

Workout A
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift

Workout B
3x5 Squat
3x5 Press
5x3 Power cleans

I went over to ExRx and looked at how much muscle is being missed by these combinations from overlapping systemic effects. The answer is…none. Head to toe.

The problem isn’t the exercises at these set/rep schemes; it’s strength levels. People really think their arms are going to be small if they go from bench press 135x5 to 275x5? Just become little untrained twigs?
People think you can move your Deadlift north of 400lbs heading up to more weight or pull off power cleans with more than 225lbs for reps and their posterior chain (hamstring included) are going to be scrawny rubber bands? That’s moronic.

This is basically the routine used by Reg Park whose list of championship BB wins is extensive. The ONLY thing that’s changed between now and then is that the gym pharmacy and tanning oil cream have increased in strength exponentially. To insane levels.

To hell with this just being a SS program–you could use this template (assuming you work on progression) and make the bikini short wearing ass hat on the leg curl machine look like exactly NOT the kind of guy you want on an athletic field let alone have your back in a street fight.

Want to be a BB? Take SS and add copious Anavar+HGH+Insulin+Clenbuterol. You’ll be just fine on stage and with a 300lbs overhead press no one’s going to say even one single time “his rear delts are small”[/quote]

Why post a picture of reg park? his routines contained over 8 exercises in a session and sometimes up to 3 hours training in a day… this says nothing about the effectiveness of SS for a bodybuilder.

JK posted a picture of himself with decent lifts despite looking rather shit, i can also post many more people that this has happened to.

If i was on large amounts of insulin and hgh i wouldn’t be wasting my time on a beginner program designed for strength athletes, that statement about SS being all a bodybuilder would need to place well on stage is fucking downright idiotic…

112

[quote]pulphero wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

[quote]pulphero wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

[quote]pulphero wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

No muscles missing, are you a troll? Will your arms grow if your bench increases from 135 - 275, yes… but not nearly as much as if you actually trained arms

people who recommend SS or do SS are just lazy and don’t want to get on a real routine

lol at thinking you are going to get huge from drugs + SS

how will drugs help on a routine that is so low volume and low frequency, and neglects most of your body?

[/quote]

Your thinking is warped in a way I’m not getting. There are literally no muscles not receiving stimulus from these lifts. Go to ExRx and look at the muscles used–hell pick a site with some kinesiology in-put, anyone you want if you think that one is crap and you’ll easily see systemic exercises work…wait for it…systemically.

Drugs will help on a program of low volume and low frequency in a very easy and common way. Instead of sarcoplasmic balloon BS pump masturbation you cause damage to the muscle fibers. Deep trauma caused by heavy weight for low reps. The juice heightens protein synthesis beyond normal healing levels and you have much thicker fibers (which equals bigger muscles).

You needed this explained to you? You don’t even seem to know what you don’t know. Google John Grimek who predates the 1953 introduction of juice and see what a routine of basically just squats and DB presses built. Once you see the images imagine what that physique would have looked like on as little as 20mg of D-bol a day.

How can you not understand this?[/quote]

stimulus, maybe… adequate stimulus, no

i see people on strength routines with tiny arms, calves, legs… all because of their low rep range and intentionally neglecting muscle

so drugs change the kind of hypertrophy you get while doing the same exact routine, interesting… I guess you need the elevated protein synthesis for doing the same exact routine that people w/o steroids seem to have no trouble recovering from

John Grimek wasn’t doing just squats and DB presses, lol

maybe with another 20 years of training you might have a clue[/quote]

Nothing you wrote made sense. AAS speed recover of damaged fibers. Low volume, low frequency but heavy work causes damage. AAS help heal. This is something you don’t get?

The bodily response between sarcoplasmic swelling and thickened fibers from repaired damage is something you also don’t get? Really?

You think calves aren’t worked in dead, cleans, and squats? Work 'em first then go do the big exercises–see how they feel. Hell see if you can complete a squat set with pre=fatigued calves You’ll thank me for your education and it won’t even take you 20 years to catch up.

I’ll leave The Grimek out of it for now–I was making a point about how he spent large chunks of his training time as an illustration but it got off track and I wasn’t typing as clear as I needed to. It did sound like that was all I thought he did when I only meant he devoted months at times only doing those things. I’ll take the mea culpa on the bad communication.[/quote]

again, why would you need AAS to run SS?

I’m pretty sure the point of AAS is so you could train more frequently, so something like SS would be garbage (not to mention it leaves out a lot of muscles)

if you think 3x5 squats are enough for calves you are really dumb, I don’t know what else to say…

maybe dumb people who run SS really believe this garbage though (they tend to have tiny calves as well)
[/quote]
I think you’re starting to realize just how much you’re slipping in this discussion and it’s making you mad enough to start straw manning.
I never said you would need AAS to run SS. What I said was that given the pan-pharmacia that is BB you could run a SS template, introduce the drug volume and not worry one bit about under developed hamstrings or rear delts–all while doing the SS just the way it’s written–mainly because it leaves out not one muscle [and your repeating that it does over and over again isn’t going to change the fact that systemic exercises cause the body to grow (again…wait for it…)systemically.]

You need to to look this word ‘systemtic’ up if you’re going to argue with me so that you understand what I’m saying. I feel like an 1800’s explorer trying to explain to a wilderness native that, no, the moon isn’t a sky god–it’s just an extra orbital satellite.

As for you claiming you’ve seen legions (legions!) of Ripptoe acolytes with scrawny arms and no calves; okay. I take your anecdotal evidence as your anecdotal evidence. But my experience just isn’t that. My calves didn’t grow when I did 3x5 squats with 135lbs. But by the time I had pushed my body weight up from 145lbs to 195lbs or so and my 3x5 to 300lbs (a feat that is hardly super cool though I had to work hard not lazy to do it) my calves were bigger. Ditto my arms when my 5-rep bench was 260 and press 175. I had lat spread once I entered the high 300’s and low 400s in my deads. Again, nothing a pro would brag about, but it was a complete ectomorph transformation for me.

I can only imagine what would have happened if I’d popped copious Anavar, shot some deca and HGH, then jammed the insulin before big meals while working out like that. Even without working out one single day more per week. Low volume, low frequency, moderate reps & sets, heavy (for me) weight. Plus milk.

Some how I doubt concentration curls and toe presses would have made a shit all difference.

We might have to agree to disagree which is fine because guys like you don’t admit when they’re wrong–especially on the internet. You think I’m an asshole and I think you need to unlearn everything you’ve ever been taught, read more Dan John, Wendler, Rippetoe and Brooks Kubrik and a lot less of the muscle comics with Jay Cutler on the cover.

Or we can continue trading insults ;-> 'cause I’m suppose to be writing an assignment and this gives me an excuse to procrastinate. [/quote]

this whole post is pretty much bullshit IMO.

when using compound movements, the stronger muscle will take more of the load. this will continue to happen until you have… A MUSCLE IMBALANCE/WEAKNESS!
individual differences in leverages also have a impact on what muscles are used primarily in a compound lift.

relying on 5 exercises to train your entire body will eventually lead to muscle imbalances in 90% of people. regardless of drug use. there ARE actually alot of people who come off starting strength with high lifts yet dont have impressive physiques…

i can personally show you someone who ran programs similar to starting strength who ended up with a 600lb squat and 700lb deadlift while only having 16inch arms. according to you this man should be a beast and have no lagging muscles, as we can see this really isnt the case in real life.

113

Hey wait a minute… What’s with this infatuation with discussing SS as it relates to bodybuilding? Everyone knows Rip gives exactly zero fucks about bodybuilding. He is a powerlifter through and through and his program is designed with strength only in mind and nothing else. Why are people wasting mental energy thinking about how Starting Strength isn’t good for a bodybuilder? Isn’t that like arguing that P90X isn’t the best thing if you want to be a powerlifter? I mean who are you trying to convince lol? Doesn’t everyone already agree with you?

114

I I think the problem here is a lot of people following a branded program without consideration for the objectives, which in this case, is a logical method of strength progression for a beginner. While this is fine, there are those that think in extremes and fall into the mindset that this is the only way to train for full physical development.

115

[quote]csulli wrote:
Why are people wasting mental energy thinking about how Starting Strength isn’t good for a bodybuilder? Isn’t that like arguing that P90X isn’t the best thing if you want to be a powerlifter? I mean who are you trying to convince lol? Doesn’t everyone already agree with you?[/quote]
Because people are still convinced that it’s applicable, even for people with physique goals in mind.

116

[quote]csulli wrote:
Hey wait a minute… What’s with this infatuation with discussing SS as it relates to bodybuilding? Everyone knows Rip gives exactly zero fucks about bodybuilding. He is a powerlifter through and through and his program is designed with strength only in mind and nothing else. Why are people wasting mental energy thinking about how Starting Strength isn’t good for a bodybuilder? Isn’t that like arguing that P90X isn’t the best thing if you want to be a powerlifter? I mean who are you trying to convince lol? Doesn’t everyone already agree with you?[/quote]

You sir display too much logic for these here forums.

117

[quote]csulli wrote:
Hey wait a minute… What’s with this infatuation with discussing SS as it relates to bodybuilding? Everyone knows Rip gives exactly zero fucks about bodybuilding. He is a powerlifter through and through and his program is designed with strength only in mind and nothing else. Why are people wasting mental energy thinking about how Starting Strength isn’t good for a bodybuilder? Isn’t that like arguing that P90X isn’t the best thing if you want to be a powerlifter? I mean who are you trying to convince lol? Doesn’t everyone already agree with you?[/quote]

EXACTAMUNDO

118

Bada-bing, Ba-zinga !

119

Rippetoe for Prez, Wendler for Srg. Arms, word domination will follow, lol. Hatters will hate and winners will win, and around the word turns. this is a man that has turned his passion into his lively hood, written books and countless articles, helped thousands of people build muscle, with a basics first routines, as you progress your goals will change.

I’m on the other side of my athletic career at 40, and have recently gone back to the basics, after years of complex routines, because at the end of the day I want to be able to gauge my gym sucsess by the weight on the bar, in basic movements. Everyone has different goals, from BBing to Pling to general fitness, starting with and maintaining a level of strength in basic movements, should be a cornerstone of most routines for many reasons, and when you move away from this, I feel you loose somthing.

Being able to squat, bench, and dead, more than your body weight, and possibly twice your weight, are great goals for anyone and great tools to gauge progress, they aid in muscle building, confidance, and well being. depending on goals exercises can be added or removed, but the big lifts can be life long tools.

I use the big three and 3 mile time, as a gauge for me and my clients. I think people missed the point, it’s not to only train the big lifts, but to include them and use them to build workouts around. over a lifetime everyone can improve their strength on big lifts and attain their individual goals.

I personaly used the lessons from the weight room to overcome several demons in my life, the confidance from a lifetime of big lifts to atain my own dreams, and turn my passions into my lively hood, and the more wealthy and sucsessful I become, the more hatters I collect, some people hate and some people win, some people get it and some people don’t. 2cents

120

[quote]csulli wrote:
Hey wait a minute… What’s with this infatuation with discussing SS as it relates to bodybuilding? Everyone knows Rip gives exactly zero fucks about bodybuilding. He is a powerlifter through and through and his program is designed with strength only in mind and nothing else. Why are people wasting mental energy thinking about how Starting Strength isn’t good for a bodybuilder? Isn’t that like arguing that P90X isn’t the best thing if you want to be a powerlifter? I mean who are you trying to convince lol? Doesn’t everyone already agree with you?[/quote]

This

I wish I had done starting strength instead of doing a generic BB split when I first started, I think I would be much further ahead in the game then I am now. The problem was when I first started I had no idea that I would find my niche in PLing, I just wanted sick guns bro.