Think You Are Big But Just Fat

[system]

[quote]GymTimeNYC wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]GymTimeNYC wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Anyone else notice a big change in fat distribution when dropping a bunch of weight?
My chest used to have about as thick a layer of fat as my gut, but my chest leaned out far faster.

Same with my upper arm. My forearm leaned out fast, but I’m just really starting to see better separation in my upper arm. My bicep separation from my shoulder and elbow is really starting to come out.
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Great guns by the way![/quote]

You can def put on 80lb of. Uncle with correct diet and training with the main lifts. I’ve seem it done as a natural
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yer okay buddy. got any pics?[/quote]

I personally know brick. Throwing a line at him.
[/quote]

To be clear I was not serious

[optheta]

[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
fuck I don’t know anymore. I just don’t know.[/quote]

Was your reality Shattered?

[SKELAC]

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
And as I said… YES Tyson has more lean body mass. But nowhere near 50lbs… I have trained enough people to have an idea of the visual changes thatt 15lbs of lean body mass added to a lean upper body does.

The numbers are correct… at his peak weight Roy Jones was 193lbs. He would cut down to 176lbs for the light-heavy fights… and yes it is easy to find pics of him very small since he start out in the lighter weight classes. But at his peak, in a non-dehydrated state he was 193 and Tyson at his peak was 215-220 and slightly less lean.

But I’ll play devils advocate… Jones was a tad taller which accounts for some of the weight. Still there is no way that a peak shape Tyson had more than 25lbs of lean mass over a peak shape non-dehydrated Roy Jones.[/quote]

With all due respect,I prefer to believe my own eyes.

[SKELAC]

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:
Difference in lean body mass between Tyson and Roy Jones Jr. was like 10-15 lbs.?! Thats ridicoulous! :)))

Have you seen these men box when in their prime?
[/quote]

Of course, I’m a huge boxing fan. Seriously though 15lbs of muscle tissue makes a huge visual difference especially since these guys minimize leg size gains.

Also consider that Tyson has a wider clavicle and stockier build, which makes him look larger. [/quote]

I saw Tysons gigantic thighs! But only Tysons neck and calves make 15 pounds of difference over Roy Jones![/quote]

.

[SKELAC]

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:
Its interesting to look at the role of genetic predisposition.
One example,Roy Jones Jr. and Mike Tyson.

Both professional boxers.Both champions in their respective weight class.Both of the same/similar height,but about 50 pounds difference in lean body mas.
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The difference is not that great. Tyson did fight as heavy as 239 but during his prime (pre-prison) his fighting weight was between 215 and 220 since he was a heavyweight, he didn’t have to lose weight for his fights, so it’s fair to say that during his prime his normal bodyweight was 215-220lbs.

Roy Jones fought in many weight classes having his best physique arguably as a cruiserweight (198lbs)… his fighting weight in that class was 193lbs, so likely didn’t cut too much weight, if any at all. When he fought in lighter classes he simply dropped a ton of water weight (which most boxers used to do back then and still today to some extent). So it is fair to say that his normal weight was in the 190s… probably between 193 and 195lbs.

So we have a 20-25lbs difference, not 50. Furthermore, Roy Jones was a bit leaner, so the actual difference in lean body mass was probably more like 10-15lbs.
[/quote]

Difference in lean body mass between Tyson and Roy Jones Jr. was like 10-15 lbs.?! Thats ridicoulous! :)))

Have you seen these men box when in their prime?
[/quote]

Roy
[/quote]

[SKELAC]

Minimize leg size gains? Right!

[super_saiyan]

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
And as I said… YES Tyson has more lean body mass. But nowhere near 50lbs… I have trained enough people to have an idea of the visual changes thatt 15lbs of lean body mass added to a lean upper body does.

The numbers are correct… at his peak weight Roy Jones was 193lbs. He would cut down to 176lbs for the light-heavy fights… and yes it is easy to find pics of him very small since he start out in the lighter weight classes. But at his peak, in a non-dehydrated state he was 193 and Tyson at his peak was 215-220 and slightly less lean.

But I’ll play devils advocate… Jones was a tad taller which accounts for some of the weight. Still there is no way that a peak shape Tyson had more than 25lbs of lean mass over a peak shape non-dehydrated Roy Jones.[/quote]

With all due respect,I prefer to believe my own eyes.

[/quote]

Just like you believed all those old strongmen were a lean 300 pounds.

LOL

[infinite_shore]

@SKELAC: DYEL?

[gregron]

SKELAC: did you miss the part were Tyson and Jones both fought in the same weight class? Which means that they weighed roughly the same???

Roy Jones CHOSE, at different points in his career, to fight at those lighter weight classes and lost weight on purpose to do so. Tyson could have done the same thing.

Tyson I’m his prime fought around 215-220, Roy jones at his prime fought around 195. Does 220-195 = 50lbs of LBM?

[super_saiyan]

With all due respect gregron I choose to believe pictures over logic and science.

By the way, did you know that Mike Tyson is the new pope?

[LankyMofo]

[quote]SKELAC wrote:
Minimize leg size gains? Right!

[/quote]

LOL at a much softer Tyson, not even impressively large, having 50 pounds of LBM on RJJ.

I have no idea what you’re smoking.

[Christian_Thibaudeau]

[quote]PB Andy wrote:
CT posting in the commoner’s forum… what is this, 2008? I like it![/quote]

I’ll be doing more of that. I missed the interaction and the wide variety of subjects and personalities.

[Christian_Thibaudeau]

[quote]SKELAC wrote:
Minimize leg size gains? Right!

[/quote]

I said that specifically for boxers in classes with a weight limit. Tyson was a heavyweight, thus he didn’t have to respect a weight limit. Boxers in lighter weight classes tend to avoid gaining size on their legs so that they can fit in their weight class with more upper body mass (or be talller in a lighter weight class).

[Christian_Thibaudeau]

And I will reiterate that you cannot take weigh-in pics because these guys deplete up to 20lbs in a few days (dehydration)… that WILL make anyone look like they list 15lbs or so of muscle… you will look smaller and flatter. I know for having done this myself and having had many athlete do this. For example Fabrice Tiozzo, former world champion as a middleweight would weigh-in at 175 and fight 2 days after at 200-205 and didn’t look like the same human being.

Of course it is not the same with heavyweight weigh-ins since they do not have to respect a weight limit and this do not have to dehydrate themselves.

Here are the facts.

At his peak, when not dehydrated Roy Jones was 193. He has longer limbs and narrower shoulders which makes one look less bulky and massive.

Tyson at his peak was 215-220 (he fought as heavy as 239, but carried a lot more fat). He has shorter limbs and wider clavicle which makes him look more bulky and massive.

Roy Jones was significantly leaner than Tyson. Although I do not have any date about their body fat level, I would assume a 3-5% difference.

So if we compare both athletes in similar states (non-dehydrated, normal weight) the biggest possible difference in lean body mass is 27lbs (assuming Tyson’s heaviest weight, and not considering body fat levels) and the smallest would be about 10lbs (if we take Tyson’s lightest fighting weight and assume a 5% difference in body fat).

10lbs in unlikely and 27lbs is stretching it a bit, which is why I said 15-20lbs difference in lean body mass.

THAT HAVING BEEN SAID… you seem not to understand how HUGE of a difference 15-20lbs of TRUE muscle mass makes. It is A LOT of tissue.

So of course Tyson carries more muscle, I never said that he wasn’t. You seem to think that I said that they both had similar muscle mass. I never implied that. I said that saying that Jones has 50lbs less of lean body mass is a gross overestimation. I also said that 15-20lbs of mass makes A LOT of visual difference, especially considering that Tyson’s structure makes him look larger than he is and Jone’s makes him look smaller than he is.

[UtahLama]

Gentleman, SKELAC is our old friend BALBOS, and he likes nothing more than to stir the pot in here…he is just getting under your skin in a friendly way.

Just give him lolz.

[ashylarryku]

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]PB Andy wrote:
CT posting in the commoner’s forum… what is this, 2008? I like it![/quote]

I’ll be doing more of that. I missed the interaction and the wide variety of subjects and personalities.
[/quote]

Awesome! The forums have missed you.

[Christian_Thibaudeau]

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
Gentleman, SKELAC is our old friend BALBOS, and he likes nothing more than to stir the pot in here…he is just getting under your skin in a friendly way.

Just give him lolz.[/quote]

Honestly you cannot really get under my skin. If I took personal everything that someone tells me (or say about me) on the internetz I’d have to take a second mortgage to pay for my psychologist fee’s!!!

But I do think that this actually gives us a good opportunity to really show what 50lbs of muscle looks like because people do not seem to realize how much that really is and how much of a visual difference it makes.

To really know what 50lbs of added muscle looks like we have to compare people in similar conditions (about same body fat and dehydration state).

So here is a good example… comparison between Stu Yellin and Dexter Jackson. Both are about the same height. Stu competes at roughly 175lbs and Dexter at roughly 225lbs (although many experts, including Chad Nichols have reported that Dexter tends to inflate his body weight and really is about 215 in contest shape)… So both have a 50lbs difference (or 40) at the same height and about the same body fat level.

Stu has a fantastic physique and is a great natural bodybuilder, but Dexter looks like someone from a different species.

[Christian_Thibaudeau]

That’s the difference that 50lbs of muscle makes.

[super_saiyan]

Excellent posts CT. It’s good to have you around in the forums.

[SKELAC]

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
And I will reiterate that you cannot take weigh-in pics because these guys deplete up to 20lbs in a few days (dehydration)… that WILL make anyone look like they list 15lbs or so of muscle… you will look smaller and flatter. I know for having done this myself and having had many athlete do this. For example Fabrice Tiozzo, former world champion as a middleweight would weigh-in at 175 and fight 2 days after at 200-205 and didn’t look like the same human being.

Of course it is not the same with heavyweight weigh-ins since they do not have to respect a weight limit and this do not have to dehydrate themselves.

Here are the facts.

At his peak, when not dehydrated Roy Jones was 193. He has longer limbs and narrower shoulders which makes one look less bulky and massive.

Tyson at his peak was 215-220 (he fought as heavy as 239, but carried a lot more fat). He has shorter limbs and wider clavicle which makes him look more bulky and massive.

Roy Jones was significantly leaner than Tyson. Although I do not have any date about their body fat level, I would assume a 3-5% difference.

So if we compare both athletes in similar states (non-dehydrated, normal weight) the biggest possible difference in lean body mass is 27lbs (assuming Tyson’s heaviest weight, and not considering body fat levels) and the smallest would be about 10lbs (if we take Tyson’s lightest fighting weight and assume a 5% difference in body fat).

10lbs in unlikely and 27lbs is stretching it a bit, which is why I said 15-20lbs difference in lean body mass.

THAT HAVING BEEN SAID… you seem not to understand how HUGE of a difference 15-20lbs of TRUE muscle mass makes. It is A LOT of tissue.

So of course Tyson carries more muscle, I never said that he wasn’t. You seem to think that I said that they both had similar muscle mass. I never implied that. I said that saying that Jones has 50lbs less of lean body mass is a gross overestimation. I also said that 15-20lbs of mass makes A LOT of visual difference, especially considering that Tyson’s structure makes him look larger than he is and Jone’s makes him look smaller than he is. [/quote]

You have some valid points here,but lets not get lost in guessing difference in pounds. There is still a world of difference between them.They are of different build.Roy Jones would fit what you call easy-hard gainer type and a Tyson a heavier,pure mesomorph.