Think You Are Big But Just Fat

Training
41

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
http://asp.elitefts.net/qa/training-logs.asp?qid=182739

left, 225, right 170-175.

was a miserable experience, but it was my own fault for being so out of shape.

miserable, but it got it done, Shelby killed me, and im happier than ever before that i worked with him… can’t even tell you how happy.

4 years to get that fat… 13 weeks to lose it, thanks to him. Now im working with him in the offseason for 52 weeks and loving every second of it

guy is an incredible asset[/quote]

Lookin real good man.

You must have been starving by the end of that cut huh? So hungry that your butt decided to eat your shorts :wink: lol

But seriously, looking good. Are you planning on doing a show after this offseason work with Shelby?
[/quote]

LMAO!

im not sure what im going to do after working with Shelby… to be honestly ill probably end up hiring him for another year… lol

42

[quote]Delta31 wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]Delta31 wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
yep just happened to me

was at 225lbs at 5’9 strongfat, hired shelby, ended up around 175 lmao

figured id be a jacked 190… NOPE

it’s humbling[/quote]

Where you pretty jacked at 175lbs?

How was your experience with Shelby?

I am down 22lbs I look a lot smaller but probably need to lose another 22lbs lol or more before it starts to look ripped…

Its awful :S Feels like you work all your life to get big then all of a sudden you are just fat lol

Oh no[/quote]

http://asp.elitefts.net/qa/training-logs.asp?qid=182739

left, 225, right 170-175.

was a miserable experience, but it was my own fault for being so out of shape.

miserable, but it got it done, Shelby killed me, and im happier than ever before that i worked with him… can’t even tell you how happy.

4 years to get that fat… 13 weeks to lose it, thanks to him. Now im working with him in the offseason for 52 weeks and loving every second of it

guy is an incredible asset[/quote]

Jeez :slight_smile:

That was a great cut mate!!!

How much cardiovascular did you end up doing by the end?i may need to drop 75lbs at this rate hahaha
[/quote]

there was about a 4 week stretch where he had me doing 2 hours a day.

towards the end he lowered it down to one tho.

43

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:

[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
Dude I am guilty.
At 5’8 and 250lbs with 19 inch arms I thought I was the man, ha little did I know my bf was around or over 30%.

I thought I would be shredded at 210…

here I am at 204 and I barely have a 4 pack and sub 18 inch arms.

I’m going to end up having a 9-10% look by the end of this and I could very well be under 190 and closer to 180.

Just be patient and take it slow nothing is wrong with 1 pound a week.
There will often be times where you feel like you are just getting smaller without looking better but getting towards the end around the 3/4ths of the way there mark it will start coming together.

have a solid plan, track every macro and make small adjustments accordingly

If you can afford it I think having a good coach will make this transition much easier for you although you could definitely do it without one.

stay strong my dude it’s a long road coming from that high of a bf.
[/quote]

Is that avatar pic current? You look pretty solid and your waist seems to be pretty slender. Is that what you were referring to as being 204 and sub 17" arms?[/quote]

The avatar is current. I I think I was 207 in the picture but my arms Under 18 haha not under 17 :slight_smile: my triceps had a little pump so they might have been 18 in the picture.

44

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]Delta31 wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]Delta31 wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
yep just happened to me

was at 225lbs at 5’9 strongfat, hired shelby, ended up around 175 lmao

figured id be a jacked 190… NOPE

it’s humbling[/quote]

Where you pretty jacked at 175lbs?

How was your experience with Shelby?

I am down 22lbs I look a lot smaller but probably need to lose another 22lbs lol or more before it starts to look ripped…

Its awful :S Feels like you work all your life to get big then all of a sudden you are just fat lol

Oh no[/quote]

http://asp.elitefts.net/qa/training-logs.asp?qid=182739

left, 225, right 170-175.

was a miserable experience, but it was my own fault for being so out of shape.

miserable, but it got it done, Shelby killed me, and im happier than ever before that i worked with him… can’t even tell you how happy.

4 years to get that fat… 13 weeks to lose it, thanks to him. Now im working with him in the offseason for 52 weeks and loving every second of it

guy is an incredible asset[/quote]

Jeez :slight_smile:

That was a great cut mate!!!

How much cardiovascular did you end up doing by the end?i may need to drop 75lbs at this rate hahaha
[/quote]

there was about a 4 week stretch where he had me doing 2 hours a day.

towards the end he lowered it down to one tho.[/quote]

2 hours steady state?
like on a bike or somethign?

45

[quote]paulieserafini wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]Delta31 wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]Delta31 wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
yep just happened to me

was at 225lbs at 5’9 strongfat, hired shelby, ended up around 175 lmao

figured id be a jacked 190… NOPE

it’s humbling[/quote]

Where you pretty jacked at 175lbs?

How was your experience with Shelby?

I am down 22lbs I look a lot smaller but probably need to lose another 22lbs lol or more before it starts to look ripped…

Its awful :S Feels like you work all your life to get big then all of a sudden you are just fat lol

Oh no[/quote]

http://asp.elitefts.net/qa/training-logs.asp?qid=182739

left, 225, right 170-175.

was a miserable experience, but it was my own fault for being so out of shape.

miserable, but it got it done, Shelby killed me, and im happier than ever before that i worked with him… can’t even tell you how happy.

4 years to get that fat… 13 weeks to lose it, thanks to him. Now im working with him in the offseason for 52 weeks and loving every second of it

guy is an incredible asset[/quote]

Jeez :slight_smile:

That was a great cut mate!!!

How much cardiovascular did you end up doing by the end?i may need to drop 75lbs at this rate hahaha
[/quote]

there was about a 4 week stretch where he had me doing 2 hours a day.

towards the end he lowered it down to one tho.[/quote]

2 hours steady state?
like on a bike or somethign?[/quote]

i have a treadmill in my living room, and yes SS… i caught up on all the movies ive been needing to watch

46

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

i have a treadmill in my living room, and yes SS… i caught up on all the movies ive been needing to watch[/quote]

Feel free to ignore this question, but I’m very curious as to whether you had assistance during this cut? It’s actually pretty amazing to me that you could be creating such a large caloric deficit through treadmill cardio while still retaining so much muscle, particularly lower body muscle compared to what I would have expected.

47

[quote]The3Commandments wrote:

I didn’t ask you because I knew you lost a ton of strength, but you also did what would normally be considered an inadvisable cut. I was interested in DD and paulie, who took a much longer time with their cuts.[/quote]

It’s hard to say. I’ve had non-strength related issues that have kept me from squatting and deadlifting like I used to.

For stuff I can still go heavy on: My bench has gone from 405 to somewhere around 380. Strict military from 230 to 215-220.

But I’m in the middle of taking 18 weeks off from the really heavy stuff. I’m planning on cycling “bodybuilding” stuff for 18-20 weeks followed by a 12 week strength cycle (assuming I get myself healed up). So, it will be a while before I’m really into testing my maxes in the main lifts again.

My answer is really that I’ve tried to stop caring for a while.

48

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

But I’m in the middle of taking 18 weeks off from the really heavy stuff. I’m planning on cycling “bodybuilding” stuff for 18-20 weeks followed by a 12 week strength cycle (assuming I get myself healed up). So, it will be a while before I’m really into testing my maxes in the main lifts again.

My answer is really that I’ve tried to stop caring for a while.
[/quote]

Was that hard to do?

I’m not at the point where I’d need to cut yet (5’10", 210), but I feel like when I do get to that point, it’s going to be hard to see my lifts go down. I’ve cut in the past successfully, but I wasn’t at the point then where I felt like a pretty strong guy. Now, I feel like it would be really hard to watch my working sets for, e.g., squat go below the upper 3 and lower 400s. Not an ego thing–I just like lifting (what I consider) ‘heavy’ weights, lol. I guess it will just come down to priorities.

49

[quote]The3Commandments wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

But I’m in the middle of taking 18 weeks off from the really heavy stuff. I’m planning on cycling “bodybuilding” stuff for 18-20 weeks followed by a 12 week strength cycle (assuming I get myself healed up). So, it will be a while before I’m really into testing my maxes in the main lifts again.

My answer is really that I’ve tried to stop caring for a while.
[/quote]

Was that hard to do?

I’m not at the point where I’d need to cut yet (5’10", 210), but I feel like when I do get to that point, it’s going to be hard to see my lifts go down. I’ve cut in the past successfully, but I wasn’t at the point then where I felt like a pretty strong guy. Now, I feel like it would be really hard to watch my working sets for, e.g., squat go below the upper 3 and lower 400s. Not an ego thing–I just like lifting (what I consider) ‘heavy’ weights, lol. I guess it will just come down to priorities. [/quote]

It’s certainly not easy at first. It’s honestly a lot easier now that I’m simply not doing those same heavy lifts. You learn to define your progress in other ways. I’ve become addicted to seeing new Veins, as some of my pictures I’ve posted would indicate. I’ve been keeping rough track of my mile time (yes, steady state running). Watching the separation in my quads and arms. My wife has started trying to guess what I trained that day by just seeing me pumped after I train, which is pretty awesome, because she’s right more than not.

But there are other awesome things that start happening. For example, my wife and I spent a big chunk of the day climbing and hiking down the river that skirts the property. I wanted to go home and start a fire to warm up, but had no fire wood, so on the way back I picked up a big log (Iâ??d guess 75-100 pounds or so) and carried it probably 3/4 of a mile back to the house on rough ground without much effort. Then cut it up by hand without breaking a sweat. That ability is way more fulfilling than my 500 pound squat was. I’m worse at squatting and better at life.

50

[quote]The3Commandments wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]The3Commandments wrote:
DoubleDuce, Paulie, how much strength have you gained or lost during the process of cutting? Just curious.

[/quote]

my head nearly exploded with rage at this comment lol…

sorry, everyone asked me during my prep “SO HOW MUCH STRONGER DID U GET???”

as if i actually got stronger just because my muscles were now visible… all the girls were like “wow you lost so much fat and gained so much muscle!!”… i just nodded and smiled… (they don’t understand these things)

strength always declines, id say it’s basically directly proportional to how hard you are dieting… unless you are natty before you start prepping, and jump on AAS during your prep.

but thankfully bodybuilding is a muscle competition, not a strength one[/quote]

I didn’t ask you because I knew you lost a ton of strength, but you also did what would normally be considered an inadvisable cut. I was interested in DD and paulie, who took a much longer time with their cuts.[/quote]

oh man I missed your question.

Okay so It’s hard to say really haha.
When I was 250 for a short time I was benching maybe 245 for 3x10 and 275x5.
I am and never was a strong bench presser.

Something happened one day though and over two weeks my bench press dropped over 50lbs.

A couple months after that I got my hormones checked and they were tanked:
Total T - 206 ng/dl (range 350-1100 ng/dl)
E2 - 48 (i believe the top of the range was like 40 but we all know we should probably be around the mid to low 20s)
It was at this point I decided I was too fat and needed to cut.

anyways my strength has not gone down at all since my hormones tanked and I started cutting.
But it hasn’t really gone up either.
at 205lbs I
Bench Pressed 210 lbs for 3x10 yesterday. I’m sure in a month or so if I keep doing flat bar I’ll be hitting 225 for 3x10 but who knows. Don’t care so much, I can worry about how strong I am when I’m lean and start eating enough calories to put on some muscle.

51

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]The3Commandments wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

But I’m in the middle of taking 18 weeks off from the really heavy stuff. I’m planning on cycling “bodybuilding” stuff for 18-20 weeks followed by a 12 week strength cycle (assuming I get myself healed up). So, it will be a while before I’m really into testing my maxes in the main lifts again.

My answer is really that I’ve tried to stop caring for a while.
[/quote]

Was that hard to do?

I’m not at the point where I’d need to cut yet (5’10", 210), but I feel like when I do get to that point, it’s going to be hard to see my lifts go down. I’ve cut in the past successfully, but I wasn’t at the point then where I felt like a pretty strong guy. Now, I feel like it would be really hard to watch my working sets for, e.g., squat go below the upper 3 and lower 400s. Not an ego thing–I just like lifting (what I consider) ‘heavy’ weights, lol. I guess it will just come down to priorities. [/quote]

It’s certainly not easy at first. It’s honestly a lot easier now that I’m simply not doing those same heavy lifts. You learn to define your progress in other ways. I’ve become addicted to seeing new Veins, as some of my pictures I’ve posted would indicate. I’ve been keeping rough track of my mile time (yes, steady state running). Watching the separation in my quads and arms. My wife has started trying to guess what I trained that day by just seeing me pumped after I train, which is pretty awesome, because she’s right more than not.

But there are other awesome things that start happening. For example, my wife and I spent a big chunk of the day climbing and hiking down the river that skirts the property. I wanted to go home and start a fire to warm up, but had no fire wood, so on the way back I picked up a big log (Iâ??d guess 75-100 pounds or so) and carried it probably 3/4 of a mile back to the house on rough ground without much effort. Then cut it up by hand without breaking a sweat. That ability is way more fulfilling than my 500 pound squat was. I’m worse at squatting and better at life.
[/quote]

This is a great point DD, I went through a massive bulking phase and built alot of muscle and strength but I was bloated all the time. I finally decided to drop some lbs after I went on a snowboard trip and couldn’t keep up with any of my friends. I’m much happier now that I’m leaner and can finally do fun activities again.

52

@T3C

I wouldn’t sweat your lifts that much on a cut.
If you take it slow and train with the same intensity although they may go down some it shouldn’t be much if at all.

I do recommend getting a good coach. (I don’t necessarily mean the most popular)

Don’t be afraid to do cardio because it does help smoothen out the process but at the same time you shouldn’t have to go to an extreme.

Look at how much muscle I’ve maintained and hormonally the odds were against me.

53

[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
@T3C

I wouldn’t sweat your lifts that much on a cut.
If you take it slow and train with the same intensity although they may go down some it shouldn’t be much if at all.

I do recommend getting a good coach. (I don’t necessarily mean the most popular)

Don’t be afraid to do cardio because it does help smoothen out the process but at the same time you shouldn’t have to go to an extreme.

Look at how much muscle I’ve maintained and hormonally the odds were against me.[/quote]

I do an hour of cardio a day right now while bulking, but I my background pre-lifting was as an endurance athlete. So I’m not afraid of cardio necessarily, but the combination of lots of cardio and a heavy caloric deficit is the aspect of Mr. Walkway’s experience that interests me.

54

paulie you’re looking great, clearly you weren’t just fat. I think your strength isn’t too bad. A bench in the 200s for 3x10 could easily translate to 300 for a max if you felt like dropping the reps down in a few months when your calories are higher.

55

[quote]browndisaster wrote:
paulie you’re looking great, clearly you weren’t just fat. I think your strength isn’t too bad. A bench in the 200s for 3x10 could easily translate to 300 for a max if you felt like dropping the reps down in a few months when your calories are higher.[/quote]

ha, maybe… Appreciate it my dude!!

56

[quote]The3Commandments wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

i have a treadmill in my living room, and yes SS… i caught up on all the movies ive been needing to watch[/quote]

Feel free to ignore this question, but I’m very curious as to whether you had assistance during this cut? It’s actually pretty amazing to me that you could be creating such a large caloric deficit through treadmill cardio while still retaining so much muscle, particularly lower body muscle compared to what I would have expected.
[/quote]

no worries at all bro, this is a bodybuilding forum

yes i was on steroids, yes i am still on steroids, yes i will continue to be on steroids (:

57

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]The3Commandments wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

i have a treadmill in my living room, and yes SS… i caught up on all the movies ive been needing to watch[/quote]

Feel free to ignore this question, but I’m very curious as to whether you had assistance during this cut? It’s actually pretty amazing to me that you could be creating such a large caloric deficit through treadmill cardio while still retaining so much muscle, particularly lower body muscle compared to what I would have expected.
[/quote]

no worries at all bro, this is a bodybuilding forum

yes i was on steroids, yes i am still on steroids, yes i will continue to be on steroids (:[/quote]

I do a lot of Cardio/contitioning and have never used. This goes back to the doing more vs eating less debate. I may do more cardio, but I’m also getting in more calories.

58

Any Tabata doer ?

59

[quote]hb50p wrote:
Any Tabata doer ?[/quote]

Not true tabata, no, but I’ve done complexes and extremely high rep sets either for time or total reps.

60

[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
@T3C

I wouldn’t sweat your lifts that much on a cut.
If you take it slow and train with the same intensity although they may go down some it shouldn’t be much if at all.

I do recommend getting a good coach. (I don’t necessarily mean the most popular)

Don’t be afraid to do cardio because it does help smoothen out the process but at the same time you shouldn’t have to go to an extreme.

Look at how much muscle I’ve maintained and hormonally the odds were against me.[/quote]

This may be speculation/broscience/etc, but I’d love some thoughts:

I was thinking about this, and honestly the thought of bulking without cardio is scarier to me than the thought of cutting without cardio (or with very minimal cardio). At least as a natural lifter.

The thinking is that if I’m in a caloric deficit anyway, it’s probably not the case that I would be losing muscle tissue instead of adipose tissue. If I’m in a caloric surplus, however, it seems that there’s way more room for me to lose conditioning.

The idea being that form follows function: if I’m doing cardio while in caloric deficit, the body may (I’m asking here) want to lose the more metabolically demanding muscle tissue than adipose–at least in a less desirable ratio than otherwise. While in a caloric surplus, if the body is also having demands placed on it requiring some level of conditioning (not extreme, but enough), then it just seems like the body would be less likely to store any excess energy as adipose before maximizing other avenues of resource storage (to wit, in the muscle or as glycogen).

Is that implausible?

Would love to hear Stu, BlueCollar, or any other more experienced person’s opinion, particularly if they’ve tried both. I’ve honestly never bulked without cardio. I’m 210 right now and want to hit 225, planning on doing cardio througout for better or worse.