Think You Are Big But Just Fat

Training
341

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:

it doesnt matter where the picture is from. this is not a direct attack on you personally, but it seems everyone on this forum associates bulking and full house mode as being a fat fuck that no women want and every “real” bodybuilder looks down upon.

i used to workout in a gym full of NPC and IFBB pros, and up and coming naturals as well. and no matter what condition people were in be it off season or pre contest, nobody laughed at the guys who were in full on bulking mode and rocking a big gut and equally as large arms. only on this forum do they get shit on for gaining 40lbs and looking jacked but soft…[/quote]

I think it’s funny when people talk about these hardcore gyms but never seem to mention any names.

Here’s my story: During breaks from college I used to train at Fitness Factory in Louisville, and I still go there occasionally when visiting my parents. The gym was started by Porter Cottrell, and currently it sees the likes of Tricky Jackson and at least one other IFBB pro. In my time there I’ve seen countless “huge guys,” and the overwhelming majority of them are very lean year round.

Of the guys who rocked the “full house” look, at least 2 of the 3 I can think of off the top of my head benched 495 for reps while I was in the gym to attest to the feat; the other one I’ve seen playing with 315 on occasion.

But the point is, these mythical pros who are fat in the offseason don’t exist in the typical hardcore gym I have experience with, and the guys who were fat were far stronger than anyone on this website. [/quote]

Great post. I was once going to say something similar: every time I go to Bev’s Powerhouse (East Coast Mecca) I haven’t seen one pro looking fat… ever! Same goes for when I used to to the Colosseum. Not once did I see Desmond Miller looking chubby. [/quote]

i don’t really know why you are using the term “fat” or what your definition is. why are you using it? please explain. Professor X is not “fat” no one is discussing getting fat of seeing “fat pro’s” you are really not making any sense.

my point which i thought was pretty clear was that why is there such a heavy focus on the losing of a few pounds which can be done within a matter or months at most it is alot easier than gaining muscle. argue all you want about contest preps etc and how difficult it is to get stage lean and gaining muscle is easier etc etc.

reality is the main people complaining here are just average joe trainers wanting to gain muscle, they are not top level BBers or even competitors. for this demographic by a very very long way the most difficult aspect is gaining muscle. that is just a fact.

as far as big guys having no insight or whatever your argument is - this is a body building forum and there is one regular poster only who is the size of a large bodybuilder. i find it ridiculous to claim that is of no relevance to a site like this.

finally i have worked out in large gyms and a variety of trainers, some containing pretty major deal guys like brian buchanan mr wasp waist and ulysses williams who is regularly brought up elsewhere as having the ideal desirable build. plus a couple of former mr O competitors plus other IFBBs, WSM competitors, multiple PL WR holders etc etc. In my experience they are not walking around super lean the whole time and thisnis me being in either one or the other of these two gyms multiple times a week for well over 5 years. no they are not fucking fat either no need to be so intentionally obtuse.

342

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

There is another guy here writing huge ass posts about how X should lose a few pounds and he himself looks like a fucking tooth pick! is this real life?

It is fucked up and WRONG that they are talking so much shit constantly.

[/quote]

It’s amazing how many guys in here would look like “toothpicks” if they got lean.

343

[quote]optheta wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

There is another guy here writing huge ass posts about how X should lose a few pounds and he himself looks like a fucking tooth pick! is this real life?

It is fucked up and WRONG that they are talking so much shit constantly.

[/quote]

I’m assuming you’re talking about me here? Pretty sure I was completely respectful and just told X that maybe leaning down would be the next logical step for him, just because I thought he had definitely put the time in and would definitely have that ‘holy shit’ look.

Forgot the rule that not developed yet = can’t have an opinion. If you’re going to insult my physique, at least have an avi. [/quote]

but why would you tell him to lose weight it makes no sense. again in real life this just doesnt/wouldnt happen it is weird to me that it does on the internet.

i use my phone to post and cant see any avatars i base my opinions on what people write and assume them to be truthful. at least two of the people (out of about 7-8) i listen to the most dont have avatars and never have afaik (basing that on me using a laptop for this site about once a week) and ive never seen a picture of them, i just know they talk sense.

[/quote]

I didn’t tell him to ‘lose weight’ for the sake of losing weight, like he’s going to drop dead any moment or something. I specifically said he wasn’t fat and he looked impressive. The gym I go to in the summer and winter have a few competing BB’ers that talk to me, and I say the same things to them, like “Yeah man once you cut up a bit your arms will really pop” or stuff like that.

They hand out advice to me and help me with input on my routine and diet, and never has anyone been insulted. This is bodybuilding, someone suggesting a way to improve your aesthetics shouldn’t be seen as an insult or anything negative (if delivered in a respectable way of course). Even X said my opinion was valid. I was just trying to have a discussion with the dude.

And that’s fine, but you basically said I have no room to talk to X (apparently in any manner, whether I’m polite or not) because of my physique. So I don’t get how what I look like only selectively matters. It’s strange to me that you say I have no room to talk, though I never insulted anyone AND have an avi to at least show how much progress I have or have not made. Yet you, who calls me a ‘toothpick’ (which I guess you did just to be a dick?) and has no pictures up, do? [/quote]

If I recall wannabebig has had some photos on the site before hes a pretty big mofo.[/quote]

LOL I never said he was. I remember his old pics, dude was big. I was talking about Yolo

344

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

i don’t really know why you are using the term “fat” or what your definition is. why are you using it? please explain. Professor X is not “fat” no one is discussing getting fat of seeing “fat pro’s” you are really not making any sense.[/quote]

Haven’t you already asked this and haven’t I already explained it to you? If you’ve forgotten, I’ll be generous and call >15% BF fat. Considering this is the bodybuilding forum, I’d say that’s a gift on my part. Everyone I’ve seen defend the “full house” look as defined by this website is over that mark by a long shot. On the other hand, the guys I see at Fitness Factory look to be in the 10-12% range at their absolute fattest. cue asinine comment from you about how I don’t know how fat anyone is

I didn’t quote you in the first place, so I’m not sure why you’re telling me what your point was. But I still think that time is a ridiculous metric for measuring the difficulty of gaining muscle vs losing fat.

No, see above.

Again, it’s pointless to even bring him into this. Professor X is not 15% BF and probably never will be, and he doesn’t care, which is fine. Were he to get to 10-12% like other “large bodybuilders” (in their offseason), he wouldn’t be anywhere close to 250. Example: Jake, the Jake posting in this thread, mind you, came down from ~240 and was probably leaner then than X is now. He is now ~190, and looks great…but he isn’t even 200 pounds.

[quote]finally i have worked out in large gyms and a variety of trainers, some containing pretty major deal guys like brian buchanan mr wasp waist and ulysses williams who is regularly brought up elsewhere as having the ideal desirable build. plus a couple of former mr O competitors plus other IFBBs, WSM competitors, multiple PL WR holders etc etc. In my experience they are not walking around super lean the whole time and thisnis me being in either one or the other of these two gyms multiple times a week for well over 5 years. no they are not fucking fat either no need to be so intentionally obtuse.
[/quote]

Since you’ve asked me to define terms, I’ll request the same of you. When you say “they aren’t fat,” do you mean they are sub 12%? If so, then fine. But again, the people you keep bringing up from this website are not even close to that.

And again, that’s not to say it matters if they want to be >15%. It doesn’t, and it’s fine if that’s their goal. But don’t call them bodybuilders and don’t listen to any opinion they have about being lean, either. And if they get delusional about how much lean body mass they’re carrying, they ought to be called on it.

345

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]optheta wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

There is another guy here writing huge ass posts about how X should lose a few pounds and he himself looks like a fucking tooth pick! is this real life?

It is fucked up and WRONG that they are talking so much shit constantly.

[/quote]

I’m assuming you’re talking about me here? Pretty sure I was completely respectful and just told X that maybe leaning down would be the next logical step for him, just because I thought he had definitely put the time in and would definitely have that ‘holy shit’ look.

Forgot the rule that not developed yet = can’t have an opinion. If you’re going to insult my physique, at least have an avi. [/quote]

but why would you tell him to lose weight it makes no sense. again in real life this just doesnt/wouldnt happen it is weird to me that it does on the internet.

i use my phone to post and cant see any avatars i base my opinions on what people write and assume them to be truthful. at least two of the people (out of about 7-8) i listen to the most dont have avatars and never have afaik (basing that on me using a laptop for this site about once a week) and ive never seen a picture of them, i just know they talk sense.

[/quote]

I didn’t tell him to ‘lose weight’ for the sake of losing weight, like he’s going to drop dead any moment or something. I specifically said he wasn’t fat and he looked impressive. The gym I go to in the summer and winter have a few competing BB’ers that talk to me, and I say the same things to them, like “Yeah man once you cut up a bit your arms will really pop” or stuff like that.

They hand out advice to me and help me with input on my routine and diet, and never has anyone been insulted. This is bodybuilding, someone suggesting a way to improve your aesthetics shouldn’t be seen as an insult or anything negative (if delivered in a respectable way of course). Even X said my opinion was valid. I was just trying to have a discussion with the dude.

And that’s fine, but you basically said I have no room to talk to X (apparently in any manner, whether I’m polite or not) because of my physique. So I don’t get how what I look like only selectively matters. It’s strange to me that you say I have no room to talk, though I never insulted anyone AND have an avi to at least show how much progress I have or have not made. Yet you, who calls me a ‘toothpick’ (which I guess you did just to be a dick?) and has no pictures up, do? [/quote]

If I recall wannabebig has had some photos on the site before hes a pretty big mofo.[/quote]

LOL I never said he was. I remember his old pics, dude was big. I was talking about Yolo[/quote]

whats up spidey. you still on CBL?

346

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
if you were eating “enough calories”, you wouldnt be getting fat[/quote]

probably not. majority of my fat gain came from late night binges and simply eating too many carbs at the wrong times.

i got a good tip from a meadows video about pulling carbs out of breakfast (as long as its not peri workout) and putting them in my last meal. that and adding cardio several times a week the past month is leaning me out a little.

347

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

i don’t really know why you are using the term “fat” or what your definition is. why are you using it? please explain. Professor X is not “fat” no one is discussing getting fat of seeing “fat pro’s” you are really not making any sense.[/quote]

Haven’t you already asked this and haven’t I already explained it to you? If you’ve forgotten, I’ll be generous and call >15% BF fat. Considering this is the bodybuilding forum, I’d say that’s a gift on my part. Everyone I’ve seen defend the “full house” look as defined by this website is over that mark by a long shot. On the other hand, the guys I see at Fitness Factory look to be in the 10-12% range at their absolute fattest. cue asinine comment from you about how I don’t know how fat anyone is

I didn’t quote you in the first place, so I’m not sure why you’re telling me what your point was. But I still think that time is a ridiculous metric for measuring the difficulty of gaining muscle vs losing fat.

No, see above.

Again, it’s pointless to even bring him into this. Professor X is not 15% BF and probably never will be, and he doesn’t care, which is fine. Were he to get to 10-12% like other “large bodybuilders” (in their offseason), he wouldn’t be anywhere close to 250. Example: Jake, the Jake posting in this thread, mind you, came down from ~240 and was probably leaner then than X is now. He is now ~190, and looks great…but he isn’t even 200 pounds.

[quote]finally i have worked out in large gyms and a variety of trainers, some containing pretty major deal guys like brian buchanan mr wasp waist and ulysses williams who is regularly brought up elsewhere as having the ideal desirable build. plus a couple of former mr O competitors plus other IFBBs, WSM competitors, multiple PL WR holders etc etc. In my experience they are not walking around super lean the whole time and thisnis me being in either one or the other of these two gyms multiple times a week for well over 5 years. no they are not fucking fat either no need to be so intentionally obtuse.
[/quote]

Since you’ve asked me to define terms, I’ll request the same of you. When you say “they aren’t fat,” do you mean they are sub 12%? If so, then fine. But again, the people you keep bringing up from this website are not even close to that.

And again, that’s not to say it matters if they want to be >15%. It doesn’t, and it’s fine if that’s their goal. But don’t call them bodybuilders and don’t listen to any opinion they have about being lean, either. And if they get delusional about how much lean body mass they’re carrying, they ought to be called on it.
[/quote]

only read the first line - this post was not directed to you. dont know why you think it was. calm down.

am actually quite bored of this topic now and hold my hand up as responsible by adding numerous posts on it. but im done. id rather post about they ny and ac for a bit.

348

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

only read the first line - this post was not directed to you. dont know why you think it was. calm down.
[/quote]

What is with you and claiming to want to have an actual discussion but only reading a line or two of someone’s post? You wrote a book, heavytriple responded thoughtfully (and disagreed) and you can’t even bother to read his post?

You’re worthless to the entire forum.

349

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]optheta wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

There is another guy here writing huge ass posts about how X should lose a few pounds and he himself looks like a fucking tooth pick! is this real life?

It is fucked up and WRONG that they are talking so much shit constantly.

[/quote]

I’m assuming you’re talking about me here? Pretty sure I was completely respectful and just told X that maybe leaning down would be the next logical step for him, just because I thought he had definitely put the time in and would definitely have that ‘holy shit’ look.

Forgot the rule that not developed yet = can’t have an opinion. If you’re going to insult my physique, at least have an avi. [/quote]

but why would you tell him to lose weight it makes no sense. again in real life this just doesnt/wouldnt happen it is weird to me that it does on the internet.

i use my phone to post and cant see any avatars i base my opinions on what people write and assume them to be truthful. at least two of the people (out of about 7-8) i listen to the most dont have avatars and never have afaik (basing that on me using a laptop for this site about once a week) and ive never seen a picture of them, i just know they talk sense.

[/quote]

I didn’t tell him to ‘lose weight’ for the sake of losing weight, like he’s going to drop dead any moment or something. I specifically said he wasn’t fat and he looked impressive. The gym I go to in the summer and winter have a few competing BB’ers that talk to me, and I say the same things to them, like “Yeah man once you cut up a bit your arms will really pop” or stuff like that.

They hand out advice to me and help me with input on my routine and diet, and never has anyone been insulted. This is bodybuilding, someone suggesting a way to improve your aesthetics shouldn’t be seen as an insult or anything negative (if delivered in a respectable way of course). Even X said my opinion was valid. I was just trying to have a discussion with the dude.

And that’s fine, but you basically said I have no room to talk to X (apparently in any manner, whether I’m polite or not) because of my physique. So I don’t get how what I look like only selectively matters. It’s strange to me that you say I have no room to talk, though I never insulted anyone AND have an avi to at least show how much progress I have or have not made. Yet you, who calls me a ‘toothpick’ (which I guess you did just to be a dick?) and has no pictures up, do? [/quote]

If I recall wannabebig has had some photos on the site before hes a pretty big mofo.[/quote]

LOL I never said he was. I remember his old pics, dude was big. I was talking about Yolo[/quote]

whats up spidey. you still on CBL?[/quote]

Yessir. Used it to get decently lean, and now trying to gain some mass with it without getting too sloppy. lol. I’ve tweaked it a bit in ways Keifer probably wouldn’t say is ‘optimal’, but it works for me. You’re other post said you’ve started moving your carbs towards later in the day as well?

350

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

only read the first line - this post was not directed to you. dont know why you think it was. calm down.
[/quote]

What is with you and claiming to want to have an actual discussion but only reading a line or two of someone’s post? You wrote a book, heavytriple responded thoughtfully (and disagreed) and you can’t even bother to read his post?

You’re worthless to the entire forum. [/quote]

Lanky you’ve got the “Full House” look down perfectly

hahahahaha

anyways, if I tracked calories while bulking I wouldn’t have gained much fat at all. In a year I gained 70 lbs (noob gains) and lost 20, but to be honest the last 10 or so pounds came from 6 packs of beer and big plates of nachos while my lifts stayed the same. When I bulk again I’ll track calories daily.

351

When you supinate your hand/flex your bicep, is there clear separation between the shoulder and the bicep? If yes, full house. If no, fat. This is a good guideline IMO.

352

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:

whats up spidey. you still on CBL?[/quote]

Yessir. Used it to get decently lean, and now trying to gain some mass with it without getting too sloppy. lol. I’ve tweaked it a bit in ways Keifer probably wouldn’t say is ‘optimal’, but it works for me. You’re other post said you’ve started moving your carbs towards later in the day as well?[/quote]

are you doing any peri workout carbs? i know its against CBL but ive found pre workout carbs to really help.

yea i put some before bed so that i feel “satisfied” and dont get so hungry i cant sleep and end up eating anything i find. and it helps me sleep better cause of the serotonin release. plus im never hungry in the mornings, so it makes sense to just stuff down some protein and fat and move the carbs to night time meals when im literally starving and will eat anything.

and i guess the biggest difference this time around vs CBL is im using way cleaner carbs. no more sugary kids cereal and cherry turnovers like Kiefer recommended :frowning:

353

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
i used to workout in a gym full of NPC and IFBB pros, and up and coming naturals as well. and no matter what condition people were in be it off season or pre contest, nobody laughed at the guys who were in full on bulking mode and rocking a big gut and equally as large arms. only on this forum do they get shit on for gaining 40lbs and looking jacked but soft…[/quote]

This is a very good point.

I have worked out at two famous gyms one more focussed on powerlifting and one on BB.

AT NO POINT did this shit cross anyone’s mind or was ever said. Instead people would honestly be looking around with the expression of holy fuck look at the size of that dude.

The ridiculous thing is that the recent pics of X are not even remotely of a fat guy.

At the BB gym alot of guys would train shirtless, there were a few dude without question with more BF than X who were absolutely jacked as fuck and some of the shit posted here is just so laughable. No one would think or say this stuff in real life.

Some of the loudest mouths here are of skinny fat dweebs who are barely even deadlifting in the 300s.

There is another guy here writing huge ass posts about how X should lose a few pounds and he himself looks like a fucking tooth pick! is this real life?

It is fucked up and WRONG that they are talking so much shit constantly.

It is a shame that they are being validated by some folks who are in shape and thus are getting the confidence to shout their mouths off more and more.

Someone posts here who is 250 and massive, we should all be grateful for any insight he might have. I can think of NO ONE who regularly posts in the BB forum who are so heavily built. He is a major asset. [/quote]

Either you’re professor X posting another a different name or you want to be inside of him. Seriously the most complete nutriding I’ve ever witnessed on these forums.

354

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:
did not read all of the above two post but i got the essence of them.

to be honest i am going to backtrack abit.

it is not so much you as an individual poster.

it is more the case of there being a high number of younger underdeveloped guys here complaining.

that critical mass of people is dragging the place down imo.

to be a bit clearer my gripe is that all of these guys have been training for the best part of 5 minutes in comparison to someone like X. It’s not so much you or others are skinny and can’t have an opinion, it’s that in the real world in an actual gym i fucking guarantee you would shut your mouths and LISTEN if a guy like X was in the gym discussing training.

that is because you would be grateful for any insight.

again, i have trained in places with some supremely built motherfuckers and if i can get a 2 minute chat between sets i consider it valuable.

here you have a guy willing to help out for free over the course of a decade and the majority responses from the juniors is why dont you lose 20lbs not how did you build 80lbs of muscle.

this place should be invaluable to you guys. how you instead choose to bitch and moan and tell the guy to leave the site or stop posting etc is baffling. i first found this site many years ago and it didnt even enter my head to post never mind post and bitch. i just read and learned from guys with a ton of experience who again were doing this on their own time and for completely free. i was grateful. [/quote]

Not one natural has built 80 pounds of muscle.

Most big guys don’t have much insight, nor is there much insight to provide once someone learns about decent programming, after which point, it’s mostly up to the individual.

Open your eyes: you’ll see in REAL LIFE people have received and given far worse treatment than telling someone they’re carrying a bit too much fat! I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Haven’t you?

Telling someone, “Bro, you gotta trim down,” or “Imagine what you’ll look like when you shed all that fat? You’ll look great” are not horrible things to say. I’ve heard far worse. [/quote]
hey brick,

what do you think is a good rate of weight gain for a natty in the off season? im curious of your opinion on this topic, im trying to stick to around 2 lbs a month personally.

[/quote]

I’m not an expert but I think I know a bit. I say a person should increase their calories by 500 to 1000 and monitor their body composition every two weeks. Obviously, if things go wrong sooner, you can tweak the calories back down a bit and/or tinker around with macros. I don’t know if going by a set number with disregard for body comp is the best idea.

It also depends on someone’s experience. As said before, past the fourth year of being natural, muscular gains are VERY slow, and the dedicated trainee might only gain a few pounds of muscle or negligible amount per year.

Hopefully Stu can chime in on this.

355

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:
did not read all of the above two post but i got the essence of them.

to be honest i am going to backtrack abit.

it is not so much you as an individual poster.

it is more the case of there being a high number of younger underdeveloped guys here complaining.

that critical mass of people is dragging the place down imo.

to be a bit clearer my gripe is that all of these guys have been training for the best part of 5 minutes in comparison to someone like X. It’s not so much you or others are skinny and can’t have an opinion, it’s that in the real world in an actual gym i fucking guarantee you would shut your mouths and LISTEN if a guy like X was in the gym discussing training.

that is because you would be grateful for any insight.

again, i have trained in places with some supremely built motherfuckers and if i can get a 2 minute chat between sets i consider it valuable.

here you have a guy willing to help out for free over the course of a decade and the majority responses from the juniors is why dont you lose 20lbs not how did you build 80lbs of muscle.

this place should be invaluable to you guys. how you instead choose to bitch and moan and tell the guy to leave the site or stop posting etc is baffling. i first found this site many years ago and it didnt even enter my head to post never mind post and bitch. i just read and learned from guys with a ton of experience who again were doing this on their own time and for completely free. i was grateful. [/quote]

Not one natural has built 80 pounds of muscle.

Most big guys don’t have much insight, nor is there much insight to provide once someone learns about decent programming, after which point, it’s mostly up to the individual.

Open your eyes: you’ll see in REAL LIFE people have received and given far worse treatment than telling someone they’re carrying a bit too much fat! I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Haven’t you?

Telling someone, “Bro, you gotta trim down,” or “Imagine what you’ll look like when you shed all that fat? You’ll look great” are not horrible things to say. I’ve heard far worse. [/quote]
hey brick,

what do you think is a good rate of weight gain for a natty in the off season? im curious of your opinion on this topic, im trying to stick to around 2 lbs a month personally.

[/quote]

I’m not an expert but I think I know a bit. I say a person should increase their calories by 500 to 1000 and monitor their body composition every two weeks. Obviously, if things go wrong sooner, you can tweak the calories back down a bit and/or tinker around with macros. I don’t know if going by a set number with disregard for body comp is the best idea.

It also depends on someone’s experience. As said before, past the fourth year of being natural, muscular gains are VERY slow, and the dedicated trainee might only gain a few pounds of muscle or negligible amount per year.

Hopefully Stu can chime in on this. [/quote]

hmm i think adding 500 would be overkill for most—1000 is definitely too much for one adjustment

but thats a very interesting idea–not so much going by weight but just thinking in terms of body composition----ive been riding a fine line lately of adding too much weight to quick or dropping a few lbs by accident–hard to find the right amount of calories to grow without gaining too much too quick but god damn im going to find it. ha

356

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:

whats up spidey. you still on CBL?[/quote]

Yessir. Used it to get decently lean, and now trying to gain some mass with it without getting too sloppy. lol. I’ve tweaked it a bit in ways Keifer probably wouldn’t say is ‘optimal’, but it works for me. You’re other post said you’ve started moving your carbs towards later in the day as well?[/quote]

are you doing any peri workout carbs? i know its against CBL but ive found pre workout carbs to really help.

yea i put some before bed so that i feel “satisfied” and dont get so hungry i cant sleep and end up eating anything i find. and it helps me sleep better cause of the serotonin release. plus im never hungry in the mornings, so it makes sense to just stuff down some protein and fat and move the carbs to night time meals when im literally starving and will eat anything.

and i guess the biggest difference this time around vs CBL is im using way cleaner carbs. no more sugary kids cereal and cherry turnovers like Kiefer recommended :([/quote]

As to not hijack this thread, I’ll just move this discussion to the peri-WO thread you made in the Nutrition section.

357

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:
did not read all of the above two post but i got the essence of them.

to be honest i am going to backtrack abit.

it is not so much you as an individual poster.

it is more the case of there being a high number of younger underdeveloped guys here complaining.

that critical mass of people is dragging the place down imo.

to be a bit clearer my gripe is that all of these guys have been training for the best part of 5 minutes in comparison to someone like X. It’s not so much you or others are skinny and can’t have an opinion, it’s that in the real world in an actual gym i fucking guarantee you would shut your mouths and LISTEN if a guy like X was in the gym discussing training.

that is because you would be grateful for any insight.

again, i have trained in places with some supremely built motherfuckers and if i can get a 2 minute chat between sets i consider it valuable.

here you have a guy willing to help out for free over the course of a decade and the majority responses from the juniors is why dont you lose 20lbs not how did you build 80lbs of muscle.

this place should be invaluable to you guys. how you instead choose to bitch and moan and tell the guy to leave the site or stop posting etc is baffling. i first found this site many years ago and it didnt even enter my head to post never mind post and bitch. i just read and learned from guys with a ton of experience who again were doing this on their own time and for completely free. i was grateful. [/quote]

Not one natural has built 80 pounds of muscle.

Most big guys don’t have much insight, nor is there much insight to provide once someone learns about decent programming, after which point, it’s mostly up to the individual.

Open your eyes: you’ll see in REAL LIFE people have received and given far worse treatment than telling someone they’re carrying a bit too much fat! I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Haven’t you?

Telling someone, “Bro, you gotta trim down,” or “Imagine what you’ll look like when you shed all that fat? You’ll look great” are not horrible things to say. I’ve heard far worse. [/quote]
hey brick,

what do you think is a good rate of weight gain for a natty in the off season? im curious of your opinion on this topic, im trying to stick to around 2 lbs a month personally.

[/quote]

I’m not an expert but I think I know a bit. I say a person should increase their calories by 500 to 1000 and monitor their body composition every two weeks. Obviously, if things go wrong sooner, you can tweak the calories back down a bit and/or tinker around with macros. I don’t know if going by a set number with disregard for body comp is the best idea.

It also depends on someone’s experience. As said before, past the fourth year of being natural, muscular gains are VERY slow, and the dedicated trainee might only gain a few pounds of muscle or negligible amount per year.

Hopefully Stu can chime in on this. [/quote]

hmm i think adding 500 would be overkill for most—1000 is definitely too much for one adjustment

but thats a very interesting idea–not so much going by weight but just thinking in terms of body composition----ive been riding a fine line lately of adding too much weight to quick or dropping a few lbs by accident–hard to find the right amount of calories to grow without gaining too much too quick but god damn im going to find it. ha[/quote]

You can try adding or subtracting 250 calories as well, to keep it more conservative.

358

Wow my thread got ALOT of replies

Nice to join a forum where advice of so many people is available

359

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:
what do you think is a good rate of weight gain for a natty in the off season? im curious of your opinion on this topic, im trying to stick to around 2 lbs a month personally.

[/quote]

I’m not an expert but I think I know a bit. I say a person should increase their calories by 500 to 1000 and monitor their body composition every two weeks. Obviously, if things go wrong sooner, you can tweak the calories back down a bit and/or tinker around with macros. I don’t know if going by a set number with disregard for body comp is the best idea.

It also depends on someone’s experience. As said before, past the fourth year of being natural, muscular gains are VERY slow, and the dedicated trainee might only gain a few pounds of muscle or negligible amount per year.

Hopefully Stu can chime in on this. [/quote]

It’s true that everyone is different, and we can argue whether increased food beyond a certain point will actually lead to increased muscle mass all we want (it won’t, for the record -lol), but what I think is going to determine what is a good rate of weight gain for an off season natty guy, is how comfortable you are with your honest lean muscle gains vs your enjoyment of life.

For me, I know how quickly I can get into contest shape. I also know that it’s not a walk in the park if you’re doing it correctly, and to the extreme levels needed for stage success. This always weighs in the back of your mind after your first show; am I just adding bodyfat now that I’ll have to suffer to take off later? Of course I also like to enjoy some of the tasty foods that are out there, and having to be so strict during a cut, makes me want to indulge a bit when I’m not aiming for a show.

Then there’s the psychological component. If you’re coming off of being extremely lean, those first few pounds (re)gained are going to have a huge visual impact, especially as you’re still going to be quite lean. Of course, getting 10 lbs above a contest weight a month or two after being sickeningly shredded can really depress some people.

Brick is correct in his statement about diminishing returns. The longer you train, the smaller jumps in progress you will experience. Of course quality gains, even when smaller in terms of scale weight, can be quite impressive on a contest ready physique. That’s why you will see many of the top natural competitors having similar weights each year, and yet their composition is much much better. They understand that you can’t rush muscle gain, no matter how much the scale may egg you on.

S

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[quote]Delta31 wrote:
Wow my thread got ALOT of replies

Nice to join a forum where advice of so many people is available

[/quote]

There is hope for T-Nation again! Seriously, this thread is awesome.