The Westside Method Thread II

Training Powerlifting
141

[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
Not exactly Westside related but how do you go about choosing a bench stance? I posted a video earlier and also then decided to create a separate thread. I’ve never given much thought to using a wide, flat-footed stance but I may do as I think one of my main issues is stability and staying tight.

Is it just going by feel or are there things that you’d look for which would make you more suited to one or the other?[/quote]

Play around with things but give each it’s fair shot. I tried going wide stance but I just wasn’t getting quite the power out of it (tested for 12 weeks) that I was with my more moderate stance. I see too many people try to change a stance or simply pop out super wide (when going raw) and not having the appropriate hip mobility for it so they ditch it real quick. If you’re going to try something at least give it long enough to see if it works, even if it doesn’t right away.

142

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
STB - regarding the music to improve physiological recovery - which type of music do they recommend?[/quote]

OHHH please tell me it’s the rolling stones!

143

i am finding that a higher percentage for squats and bench is helping me with raw lifting. still trying to figure out for deads.

with squats i started at 40-45%. didnt see a change after 6 weeks. shifted to ramping up each week and went from 50-60% and my squat went up after 5 weeks of doing that.

many people i have talked to and found on forums seem to think benching raw requires heavier percentages as well. these next 2 blocks im doing i am starting at 60% and ramping up to at least 75%. looking back at past workouts it seems like 80+% for me i drop off speed dramatically.

my deads i may be going for a lighter weight. my last dead DE day i was doing 70% of my max and they were as slow as my max. i have always been that way with deads, super slow. i can blast up my power cleans so i just wonder if i need to be stronger in that middle range, around 40-50%.

144

One of my previous questions @STB.

After re-reading some Dave Tate articles and doing some research on my own (dangerous, I know) I’ve tried doing more work capacity stuff. Namely, endurance running 1 day a week, box jumps, and a dynamic bodyweight warmup.

Do you think it’s necessary to do these kind of movements if I’m already including work capacity 25x2x50% on my DE days? In my 4 weeks accumulation I’ll 20 25x2 and then in my intensification I’ll run 12/10x2 with bands.

Am I just setting myself up for over training? My only real concern is that next year I’ll have spent a year NOT advancing my work capacity and regret it. So if you could expand on this a bit and tell me how you would implement it, or if I even need to implement it in my programming if I’m already doing it with the 25x2.

145

At the seminar STB did anyone confirm that doing a set of around 50 reps for DB bench press will improve your bench? I remember you said you did it and you think it works but you didnt do any research on it.

146

[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
Not exactly Westside related but how do you go about choosing a bench stance? I posted a video earlier and also then decided to create a separate thread. I’ve never given much thought to using a wide, flat-footed stance but I may do as I think one of my main issues is stability and staying tight.

Is it just going by feel or are there things that you’d look for which would make you more suited to one or the other?[/quote]

Depends on what the rules of competition are first and foremost. Personally, I can arch harder with my heels up and my feet dug back under as far as my mobility will allow. That feel like the most stable position to me. I always get set up like that then move my feet to where is legal in the meet.

147

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
STB - regarding the music to improve physiological recovery - which type of music do they recommend?[/quote]

Doesn’t matter. You are just looking for a vibration frequncy of 100-150Hz and you need special equipment to adequately stimulate the vestibular system.

This actually wasn’t even part of the seminar. One of the presenters mentioned it in passing as something he was working on with his athletes. I read up on it a little bit. Shit sounds nuts.

148

[quote]Spock81 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
STB - regarding the music to improve physiological recovery - which type of music do they recommend?[/quote]

OHHH please tell me it’s the rolling stones![/quote]

haha. I was hoping more for something like Helmet ot The Misfits.

149

[quote]louiek wrote:
One of my previous questions @STB.

After re-reading some Dave Tate articles and doing some research on my own (dangerous, I know) I’ve tried doing more work capacity stuff. Namely, endurance running 1 day a week, box jumps, and a dynamic bodyweight warmup.

Do you think it’s necessary to do these kind of movements if I’m already including work capacity 25x2x50% on my DE days? In my 4 weeks accumulation I’ll 20 25x2 and then in my intensification I’ll run 12/10x2 with bands.

Am I just setting myself up for over training? My only real concern is that next year I’ll have spent a year NOT advancing my work capacity and regret it. So if you could expand on this a bit and tell me how you would implement it, or if I even need to implement it in my programming if I’m already doing it with the 25x2.[/quote]

Start very, very slow. Like, one workout a week of a low volume, high density of sled pushing and some tricep extensions. And thats it. People tend to add in too much too quick. That’s when “overtraining” happens. I don’t like calling it overtrianing though because adaptations take place over time that will help you handle these same loads. It may take months or years but everyone can work up to a couple extra workouts a week.

When you think of “overtraining” as just being too UNDERtrained to handle a given workload, it helps your training tremendously. This is a more proactive train of thought than doing too much stupid shit too fast and then just saying “Shit, I am overtrained now” after the fact.

Does that make sense?

If I were to prescribe a beginner Extra Workout introduction program it would look like this:

Day 1- Moderate sled pushes or pulls for 6 trips of 100 feet. Get them all done with maximum speed. Tricep extensions, light ab work, stretch

Day 2- Light sled pull for a mile.

I would suggest doing that for at least a month before adding anything else.

150

[quote]Vladamir wrote:
At the seminar STB did anyone confirm that doing a set of around 50 reps for DB bench press will improve your bench? I remember you said you did it and you think it works but you didnt do any research on it. [/quote]

Actually, I don’t think bench pressing was mentioned once the entire weekend.

What I can apply to its validity is we were talking about autopsy comparisions of elite athletes. Some of the commonalites between their physiology were very interesting:

Super human muscle protein synthesis turnover
Higher oxidative capacity regardless of fiber type
Same deal with mitochondria content

Those are three of about 50 qualities we went over. In short, to be really really strong you need to be in really really good shape both aerobically and anaerbobically. Personally, I think all of the aerobic adaptations are a result of very heavy, anaerobic training and the subsequent EPOC effect. But, doing something inherently aerobic where duration becomes intensity (a true 50 rep max) can only help speed the whole process.

I really am not smart enough to understand all of the biological shit that is happening but it kinda makes sense. Kinda.

151

[quote]Vladamir wrote:
At the seminar STB did anyone confirm that doing a set of around 50 reps for DB bench press will improve your bench? I remember you said you did it and you think it works but you didnt do any research on it. [/quote]

The one thing I like about them is they are teaching me to strain. The last 5 or 6 reps in a 50 rep max set are going to be pretty fucking tough. The 50’s feel like 150’s for the last rep

152

I’ve read a few things and some of the same ideas have come up so I wanted your take on it:

Few experienced/elite lifters who use Westside principles for some of their training are saying that they borrow a lot of Westside ideas for their training BUT because they compete raw they feel as though dynamic effort work would be better replaced by more hypertrophy work - i.e. higher reps on a lighter weight.

Some ideas are that it works fairly well for lower body so DE Lower can stay but DE Upper, they feel, doesn’t really help a raw lifter as much as if they did 60-70% but did high reps on it instead.

What do you think about this? It’s interesting because it kind of agrees with some of my thoughts about the training too which is why I ask. I think DE Lower is awesome and has really helped but I’m not sure how much DE Upper has helped. I realise that technique is also something that is enforced during that period so removing it entirely maybe not a great idea but more the idea of doing less sets and then doing some higher rep work on the bench instead.

153

I actually don’t do lower DE work but do upper DE work. I have some higher rep training as well for my upper DE work accessory. I feel as though the big benefit of upper DE work is work capacity and the ability to practice technique. My bench has gone up but I can’t say if that is due to dynamic work or just my regular work yet as I haven’t really taken either out in a long time. After nationals maybe I’ll drop DE Upper for awhile and see how things go.

154

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
I actually don’t do lower DE work but do upper DE work. I have some higher rep training as well for my upper DE work accessory. I feel as though the big benefit of upper DE work is work capacity and the ability to practice technique. My bench has gone up but I can’t say if that is due to dynamic work or just my regular work yet as I haven’t really taken either out in a long time. After nationals maybe I’ll drop DE Upper for awhile and see how things go.[/quote]

How come you don’t do lower DE? Personally I feel that, at least speed pulls, have REALLY helped my deadlift. I’m not entirely sure about DE Squats to be fair.

I was thinking something along the lines of WS4SB from Joe DeFranco who has had great success doing RE instead of DE for Upper. I do like the technique side of DE Upper though. If I do something like 15 sets of it though don’t really feel like doing higher rep bench work after that so maybe the best would be to do more like 8 sets on DE Bench (for any phase) and then some higher rep work?

155

[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
I’ve read a few things and some of the same ideas have come up so I wanted your take on it:

Few experienced/elite lifters who use Westside principles for some of their training are saying that they borrow a lot of Westside ideas for their training BUT because they compete raw they feel as though dynamic effort work would be better replaced by more hypertrophy work - i.e. higher reps on a lighter weight.

Some ideas are that it works fairly well for lower body so DE Lower can stay but DE Upper, they feel, doesn’t really help a raw lifter as much as if they did 60-70% but did high reps on it instead.

What do you think about this? It’s interesting because it kind of agrees with some of my thoughts about the training too which is why I ask. I think DE Lower is awesome and has really helped but I’m not sure how much DE Upper has helped. I realise that technique is also something that is enforced during that period so removing it entirely maybe not a great idea but more the idea of doing less sets and then doing some higher rep work on the bench instead.[/quote]

x2 Same with deads

156

Im going to find out for myself what works and what doesnt…screw what anybody else says .

and until I’ve found all the answers , I have 100% faith in the basic template .

and I’m going to do my frikkin’ best to give it 100% .

157

took a max bench tonight . decided on my opener , then took 2 more presses ; as close to a meet as possible…as in I wanted 3 good lifts .

didnt have anyone to call a press command , but confidence is high that they were all meet legal .

also had a lift off for all 3 .

last lift was 230 pounds . my best paused lift ( meet lift , way too long ago) before today was 210 pounds . missed 215 that same meet . not sure if I would have gotten anything higher tonight .

so circa 20 lbs confirmed progress …I’ll take that . and now I have a baseline to go from .

I’ll be doing the same thing for the squat on Friday . not going to pull a max DL though, as I’m pretty sure I know wher I’m at there . and besides , why torch the back for no reason . the goal is to find a max and get the fuck back to training…injury free .

158

[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
I’ve read a few things and some of the same ideas have come up so I wanted your take on it:

Few experienced/elite lifters who use Westside principles for some of their training are saying that they borrow a lot of Westside ideas for their training BUT because they compete raw they feel as though dynamic effort work would be better replaced by more hypertrophy work - i.e. higher reps on a lighter weight.

Some ideas are that it works fairly well for lower body so DE Lower can stay but DE Upper, they feel, doesn’t really help a raw lifter as much as if they did 60-70% but did high reps on it instead.

What do you think about this? It’s interesting because it kind of agrees with some of my thoughts about the training too which is why I ask. I think DE Lower is awesome and has really helped but I’m not sure how much DE Upper has helped. I realise that technique is also something that is enforced during that period so removing it entirely maybe not a great idea but more the idea of doing less sets and then doing some higher rep work on the bench instead.[/quote]

Im neither experienced, elite, or pro…so ill give you the “redneck who likes to lift” opinion.

First, “Lifter A” does 15-20 sets of 3 reps with less than 30 seconds between sets, giving him between 45 and 60 reps. “Lifter B” uses the standard bodybuilding template, 4 sets of 10 reps. Lifter A has more reps in than B and seeing as how form usually starts to break down after some time, the fact that Lifter A is taking those small breaks, his form will be better on more reps than Lifter B as well. You get plenty of Hypertrophy work, speed work, and form work, all rolled into one.

I dont like using percentages. I always go by how I feel and what weight is moving quickly. Somedays its 60%, some days its 40%. That, and my speed is horrible, so me moving 70-80% fast is out of the question.

I like using the template the way its layed out and i really dont fuck with it too much. Mr Simmons, Mr Tate and a few select others are really the only ones I listen too when the WS Method is discussed. If youdo enough reading and listening, you will find that alot of these so-called programs are just old versions of WS

Hope this helps a bit. I tend to get too many thoughts in my head and then I forget what Im doing, lol

159

+1 on the above statement

I’m no elite lifter but I don’t use waves. Not “by the book” by any means but I feel it’s logical in the spirit of rotating exercises. I’m still changing things up but I don’t have to worry about what percentage I am using and I know I’m being as fast as I can for that day. Besides, I don’t even know how much tension the bands/chains add and my 1RM for that exercise to even bother calculating. (However if I knew, I would follow what Louie says)

Here’s my past few DE squat sessions:
box squats w/ doubled bands
wide free squat w/ doubled bands
box squat w/ single choked bands
wide free squat w/ single choked bands
*repeat but try to add more weight than last time
**I also have one pair of bands so my rotation is limited

160

Jim Wendler has an article about this. He says he cycles it every 3 weeks or recommends it.

Personally, that sounds like a healthy compromise.

Also, I was watching Power Project funnily enough and it was mentioned there too. Quite an odd coincidence really but, yes, he says that he alternates every week between one time doing like 5x5 and other speed work.