How about gymnastic type movements for abs like dragon flags on a bench, those things where it’s like a leg raise except you bring you ankles above your head, or levers? I was thinking for intensity phase because of the difficulty of such movements.
And If I want to really work hard on GPP, honestly more for health reasons, feeling good, and looking good what’s the best way to set up an accumulation block for that?
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
How about gymnastic type movements for abs like dragon flags on a bench, those things where it’s like a leg raise except you bring you ankles above your head, or levers? I was thinking for intensity phase because of the difficulty of such movements.
And If I want to really work hard on GPP, honestly more for health reasons, feeling good, and looking good what’s the best way to set up an accumulation block for that?
[/quote]
Fletch, don’t fall for the articles of that Kavaldo dude on the home page - looks like an absolute clown and all I ever see from him (in articles) is gymnastic type sit like flags handstands and shit - this is lifting, not breaking. Plus, as a rule of thumb, when a small (he is tiny on the vid) dude with 14" gunz gives advice…I kinda zone out.
On a more serious note - I’ve been doing something of that sort - lying leg raises on a bench with my butt off the bench (basically everything from below my low back is off the bench) - it is like a dragon flag as in I dont let my ass in legs ever fall beneath the level of the bench. Brutal. I have no clue how effective it is, but I’ve been doing them as ab work.
[quote]mlekava000 wrote:
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
How about gymnastic type movements for abs like dragon flags on a bench, those things where it’s like a leg raise except you bring you ankles above your head, or levers? I was thinking for intensity phase because of the difficulty of such movements.
And If I want to really work hard on GPP, honestly more for health reasons, feeling good, and looking good what’s the best way to set up an accumulation block for that?
[/quote]
Fletch, don’t fall for the articles of that Kavaldo dude on the home page - looks like an absolute clown and all I ever see from him (in articles) is gymnastic type sit like flags handstands and shit - this is lifting, not breaking. Plus, as a rule of thumb, when a small (he is tiny on the vid) dude with 14" gunz gives advice…I kinda zone out.
On a more serious note - I’ve been doing something of that sort - lying leg raises on a bench with my butt off the bench (basically everything from below my low back is off the bench) - it is like a dragon flag as in I dont let my ass in legs ever fall beneath the level of the bench. Brutal. I have no clue how effective it is, but I’ve been doing them as ab work.[/quote]
I did something like that except I raised my midsection too. Fighting the urge to loosen up and not hyperextend on the reversal was brutal. I did a max of 7 reps on that tuesday and I can still feel the effects of it. I don’t think I’ve seen that article yet to be honest, but yeah I understand how you feel about some of the authors of some of the articles. But there is some gold if you’re willing to dig.
Yeah - this shit is hard - I did 3 sets of 8 of these…barely…last week, and always thought I had a strong core. Reminds me of the first time I did BB rollouts (if anyone hasn’t tried them - just do it. Much better than ab wheel) - I was sore for 3 days hahaha
[quote]louiek wrote:
[quote]marlboroman wrote:
anybody flip tires for GPP / conditioning purposes ? or know anything about it ?
is it a good alternative to prowler/sled work ?
I just found out that a kid I lifted with a few times has a tractor tire sittin’ around .and gettin’ in some conditioning work at times definitely wouldnt suck , as I hate running and cant sprint worth a fuck . dont know what size it is …or anything about flippin’ em . anybody know a good place to start for a 400 lb DLer ?[/quote]
Depends on your conditioning level. I have a 600+lb tire and one that’s even heavier. I deadlift about 440lb and can flip the 600lb for about 12 reps.
I’d start by seeing how 10 flips feel, then try to work up to 10x10. All depends on what I’m preparing for. Could try flipping for distance as fast as possible, or as many reps as fast as possible in 60 seconds, or just as many as you can in 10 minutes. Same as everything else. Set records, break records.[/quote]
a 600 frikkin’ pound tire ? guess I didnt realize how heavy tractor tires are…haha .
I think my conditioning is god awful suck . and I think my GPP is the same (that may be the result of sittin’ on a bar stool for 25 years ). and I’d be willing to bet that if I could improve those issues that my lifts just might go up a bit faster . and maybe even improve my over-all energy levels . thinking about springing for a prowler in a year or so .
I’ll have to look into this .
Anyone have any ideas on what raw lifters can do to get their bench up? I know it’s a bit vague but I can expand; just looking at some questions people would want to know initially.
I’ve been doing WS method for a while now but stopping for a few weeks as I’ve got exams so going to the gym only 2x/week. Anyway, my squat and deadlift are progressing quite well but my bench press is very stagnant. I really try push it and my assistance work is getting quite strong/better but my actual bench press is just staying quite constant.
Not sure how to change it up really. My ME bench movements are medium/close-grip, paused, floor press, 1-2 board and slingshot recently. From a Jim Wendler article these seem to be the best few for a raw bencher and I wouldn’t want to introduce too much variation and craziness at this level.
Assistance work doing well on the whole. I feel like those are increasing but bench is increasing very slow/not at all.
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
Anyone have any ideas on what raw lifters can do to get their bench up? I know it’s a bit vague but I can expand; just looking at some questions people would want to know initially.
I’ve been doing WS method for a while now but stopping for a few weeks as I’ve got exams so going to the gym only 2x/week. Anyway, my squat and deadlift are progressing quite well but my bench press is very stagnant. I really try push it and my assistance work is getting quite strong/better but my actual bench press is just staying quite constant.
Not sure how to change it up really. My ME bench movements are medium/close-grip, paused, floor press, 1-2 board and slingshot recently. From a Jim Wendler article these seem to be the best few for a raw bencher and I wouldn’t want to introduce too much variation and craziness at this level.
Assistance work doing well on the whole. I feel like those are increasing but bench is increasing very slow/not at all.[/quote]
Might be form, might be mental.
Other than that, focusing on overhead pressing made my bench go up about 50lbs (and now after the 50lb jump I only bench 295x1, so take my advice with a grain of salt). And I’ve never done speed work for my bench press because my DE upper is a C&J day. I’m going to start doing 25x3 for benching after my log press day soon, just for work capacity and shit. But anyway, I think my increased strength is because I had weak shoulders. If you’re really pushing tricep stuff and your bench is the same, try doing ME overhead work focusing on shoulder strength.
My current ME upper movements are: wide-grip barbell, medium(strongest) grip axle, 8" log strict, and axle z-press from dead stop. In accumulation, my assistance is DB pressing and pushup variations. In intensification, my assistance is tricep pressdown pre-fatigue, and dead stop floor press for 6RM. I believe that doing dead stop movements really helped my explosiveness, so keep that in mind.
If you have limited equipment, you can do a cycle like this: deadstop z-press, medium(strongest) grip barbell press, incline press, wide grip(pinky on rings) barbell press. Then cycle those out.
If you plan on doing this though, NEVER skip shoulder prehab. Shoulder dislocations with a stick is what I do, every time before I lift and especially before upper body work.
[quote]marlboroman wrote:
a 600 frikkin’ pound tire ? guess I didnt realize how heavy tractor tires are…haha .
I think my conditioning is god awful suck . and I think my GPP is the same (that may be the result of sittin’ on a bar stool for 25 years ). and I’d be willing to bet that if I could improve those issues that my lifts just might go up a bit faster . and maybe even improve my over-all energy levels . thinking about springing for a prowler in a year or so .
I’ll have to look into this .
[/quote]
600lb is pretty standard I think. Well within the range of starting weight for someone who’s reached a 405 deadlift. When I could deadlift 385x1 last year doing 5/3/1, I flipped a 600lb tire for about 8 reps to failure.
If you’re wanting to increase work capacity, the 25x2 on DE day REALLY helped. Not sure if you tried that yet, but it worked great for me.
Yes I’m trying to push my OHP as it is rather weak compared to my bench (which is also rather weak, so you can imagine how poor my OHP is!). However, I get mixed ideas about it; I asked STB and he said it did fuck all for his bench press but I guess everyone is different.
Just to gauge an idea of strength required: I OHP’d 110 for 3x6 and that was fairly difficult. I can bench about 250lbs.
[quote]louiek wrote:
[quote]marlboroman wrote:
a 600 frikkin’ pound tire ? guess I didnt realize how heavy tractor tires are…haha .
I think my conditioning is god awful suck . and I think my GPP is the same (that may be the result of sittin’ on a bar stool for 25 years ). and I’d be willing to bet that if I could improve those issues that my lifts just might go up a bit faster . and maybe even improve my over-all energy levels . thinking about springing for a prowler in a year or so .
I’ll have to look into this .
[/quote]
600lb is pretty standard I think. Well within the range of starting weight for someone who’s reached a 405 deadlift. When I could deadlift 385x1 last year doing 5/3/1, I flipped a 600lb tire for about 8 reps to failure.
If you’re wanting to increase work capacity, the 25x2 on DE day REALLY helped. Not sure if you tried that yet, but it worked great for me.[/quote]
my last accu. block ( 5 weeks ) I did 15 x 2 and 10 x 1 for DE squat and DL . next cycle was planning on bumping that up to 18 x 2 for squat and probably 12 x 1 for pulls…but for a 3 week block . maybe increasing volume is a better idea than adding another day for flipping .
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
Yes I’m trying to push my OHP as it is rather weak compared to my bench (which is also rather weak, so you can imagine how poor my OHP is!). However, I get mixed ideas about it; I asked STB and he said it did fuck all for his bench press but I guess everyone is different.
Just to gauge an idea of strength required: I OHP’d 110 for 3x6 and that was fairly difficult. I can bench about 250lbs.[/quote]
I OHP around 188x1, bench 295x1, bodyweight ~230. Yeah I read that too, but like you said everyone is different. I didn’t do anything to specifically increase my bench, and my bench went up. I was just trying to increase my overhead press. But apparently, my shoulders were weak. I’m sure there are reasons why strong shoulders help 1 persons bench but not anothers, but I don’t know them. All I know is work your weakness’.
[quote]marlboroman wrote:
my last accu. block ( 5 weeks ) I did 15 x 2 and 10 x 1 for DE squat and DL . next cycle was planning on bumping that up to 18 x 2 for squat and probably 12 x 1 for pulls…but for a 3 week block . maybe increasing volume is a better idea than adding another day for flipping .[/quote]
Mine looks like this:
acc. block (4 weeks)
25x2x50% box squat
7x1x50-70% deadlift (sumo/conv.)
int. block (4 weeks)
12/10x2 box squat(depending on week) 35/40/45% cycle (depending on speed)
deadlift = 30-50 (90lb band tension) 7-10x1
And I believe STB recommended only around 3 weeks for the work capacity 25x2x50%, then just do 12/10x2, bands optional, according to how much explosive work you need I suppose.
The book of methods recommends 7-10x1x50-70% for deadlifts, so I’d stick with that. And keep squats on a 3 week cycle of 50/55/60, 2 week 12x2 and the 3rd week 10x2. Percentages can be lower if you find that percentage scheme makes you too slow. I use 35/40/45% to stay fast because I suck at being explosive apparently.
If you want to do tire flips, then do them. No reason not to. If you do them correctly they’d have the same benefits of work capacity that a 25x2 squat workout would have, except it probably wouldn’t help your squat speed too much.
(This is all shit I learned from this thread and/or the book of methods)
[quote]pbclax1 wrote:
[quote]Chicksan wrote:
[quote]pbclax1 wrote:
[quote]Chicksan wrote:
During the Intensification Phase, the point is to basically kill yourself. 6RM’s for me were done on both days, but for different exercises. ME Day may be CG Floor Press and DE Day would have been a shoulder press or something like that. Beat yourself into the the dirt with as much weight as you can for a max of 5-6 reps and then go eat a large pizza with some bread sticks. Sorry it wasnt as specific as STB’s but it works[/quote]
Hahaha, specifics were not needed! Makes perfect sense, thanks man.
How would things then be modified for the Transformation Phase?[/quote]
My answer is probably going to be a bit different due to the fact that I havent competed in a while and due to getting married, I dont have one planned. I basically run 5 weeks of Accumulation, 2 weeks of Intensification then one week of Transformation, then repeat. During my Transformation, its basically “heavy but not to the point of failure.” I pick weights I know I can get, even if I were on my death bed. I do this for a week, just to give my mind and body a bit of rest and then its Accumulation time again. [/quote]
Thanks for the input Chicksan![/quote]
STB or Chicksan, going back to the repeated efforts. Would you use the same 6RM exercise each week for the entire intensification cycle? I.e.) say ME upper you do a 6RM close grip and DE upper you do a 6RM military press, would you do those same things the next week and try to beat previous 6RM? Same question for ME/DE lower.
EDIT: Also, what percentages for dynamic work do you guys feel should be used for raw lifting? And that % should be based off a a true 1RM or 90% of the true 1RM?
Me personally, I switch exercises each workout. No two ME exercises are the same. I won’t go back to that 6rm exercise until the next Intensification Block. I don’t want to get bored, if I do, lifting is no longer fun
As far as percentages, I don’t use them. DE days for me are about form and speed. Today for instance, I used 50% and I was just barely getting it. Next week, it could be 45% or it could be 60%. I hope this helps
[quote]Chicksan wrote:
Me personally, I switch exercises each workout. No two ME exercises are the same. I won’t go back to that 6rm exercise until the next Intensification Block. I don’t want to get bored, if I do, lifting is no longer fun
As far as percentages, I don’t use them. DE days for me are about form and speed. Today for instance, I used 50% and I was just barely getting it. Next week, it could be 45% or it could be 60%. I hope this helps[/quote]
Thanks alot. Basically on DE day you go by how it feels that day for you…
[quote]marlboroman wrote:
anybody flip tires for GPP / conditioning purposes ? or know anything about it ?
is it a good alternative to prowler/sled work ?
I just found out that a kid I lifted with a few times has a tractor tire sittin’ around .and gettin’ in some conditioning work at times definitely wouldnt suck , as I hate running and cant sprint worth a fuck . dont know what size it is …or anything about flippin’ em . anybody know a good place to start for a 400 lb DLer ?[/quote]
Tire flipping is one of my favorite things to do for conditioning. It is very specific for the deadlift and, unlike most other modalities, it’s actually fun.
You want to completely ruin your day, try this next time:
75% of yout bent over row max (use an online calculater or something) on a barbell. Row it 10 times. Then go flip a tire 10 times. Then row 9 times. Flip 9 times. All the way down to one. I have never experienced oxygen debt quite like the way I did after this. I went with 315 on the bar and a 450lb tire. It took me 25 mins and I thought I was going to die.
Work on doing some basic jumping, like broad jumps and vertical jumps, to get into better sprinting shape. If you can’t sprint fast, you can’t lift fast. If you can’t lift fast, then your total will never be where is should be.
Sorry I missed a lot of shit on here. I was at the Central Virginia Sports Performance Seminar all weekend. My IQ jumped about 1,000 points. I will try to answer as much as I can. If a question wasn’t answered already that you want my opinion on, feel free to repost it after this. I don’t have time to read the old ones because I am now looking up everything I didn’t understand that was presented this weekend… which was a whole fucking lot.
what was the best thing you learned STB?
[quote]Vladamir wrote:
what was the best thing you learned STB? [/quote]
x2. Top 3-5 best things.
[quote]louiek wrote:
[quote]Vladamir wrote:
what was the best thing you learned STB? [/quote]
x2. Top 3-5 best things.[/quote]
Biologically, only one aspect of strength or sport development can be trained at one time. Any more than one emphasis of training in a certain block will yeild sub par results. This is a basic principle in General Adaptation Syndrome and the basis for Block Training.
Low frequency vibrations can be used to stimulate the vestibular system and, in turn, can be used to manipulate the somatosensory system to shift the autonomic nervous system to a state of parasympathetic dominance… i.e. listening to certain kinds of music after training can speed physiological recovery processes.
All that matters in training is the trainings effect in competition.
Elite level athletes have an almost superhuuman ability in terms of protein sysnthesis speed. Also, regardless of dominant fiber type, have a higher level of mitchondria and oxidative capacity. In other words, to get really good at anything, you need to be really strong and in really good shape.
Pretty much everything I am doing is on the right track.
The Angry Coach is much angrier in real life… just kidding. He is the man and hopefully I am buying a monolift from him.
Not exactly Westside related but how do you go about choosing a bench stance? I posted a video earlier and also then decided to create a separate thread. I’ve never given much thought to using a wide, flat-footed stance but I may do as I think one of my main issues is stability and staying tight.
Is it just going by feel or are there things that you’d look for which would make you more suited to one or the other?
STB - regarding the music to improve physiological recovery - which type of music do they recommend?