[quote]OBoile wrote:
Perhaps you haven’t been to and IPF contest recently, but squats don’t have to be lower than what is stated in the rule book.
[/quote)
yes I have and that is what I see, although I understand from country to country it may vary, the IPF certainly does not have the number of wide stance squatters like Reinholdt, Pacifico, Jones, Young, etc that it had years ago, and I believe it is due to the depth issue
[quote]Terry Gibbs wrote:
[quote]OBoile wrote:
Perhaps you haven’t been to and IPF contest recently, but squats don’t have to be lower than what is stated in the rule book.
[/quote]
yes I have and that is what I see, although I understand from country to country it may vary, the IPF certainly does not have the number of wide stance squatters like Reinholdt, Pacifico, Jones, Young, etc that it had years ago, and I believe it is due to the depth issue[/quote]
I would then question your ability to judge depth.
[quote]deepsquats220 wrote:
[quote]lift206 wrote:
[quote]Silyak wrote:
[quote]Umbrata Fortis wrote:
[quote]Curls4Girls wrote:
You seem like one of the guys that complains about the 24 hour weigh-ins.[/quote]
Sometimes those are bullshit also. Matt Kroc cut something like 21 pounds of water weight to get to the 220s then gained most of it back. He should have been in the 275’s almost. I think when it is done to extremes like this this ridiculous. [/quote]
It kind of sucks that part of any competition with weightclasses is figuring out how to cut ridiculous amounts of weight prior to weigh-in and then gain it back for the competition. I don’t think that is anybody’s idea of a cool sport. Ideally, people would just compete in the class that they walk around in. If they wanted to get to a different class, they would actually lose or gain the weight on a long term basis. But everyone knows that won’t happen.
If I was running a competition, I would have a 24 hour weigh in followed by a weigh-in right before the competition. Right before the competition, you could be up to 5lbs over with no penalty.
[/quote]
The only way to get competitors to compete at their walking weight is to force them to take a hydration test. And even then people will eventually test the limits to hydrate just enough at the lowest weight possible. Having a weigh-in right before competition wouldn’t force people to stop cutting - they would just compete with only a moderate amount of weight loss that doesn’t negatively impact strength.
If the hydration test becomes a new requirement, what do we do with all of the previous records? The future lifts aren’t really comparable since the newer athletes will have to conform to new regulations which could mean having a 5-10% weight disadvantage. This is different compared to a sport such as wrestling where the two athletes battling it out head-to-head are subject to the same requirements and it wouldn’t favor anyone.
It would be pretty difficult having hydration tests implemented in powerlifting unless weight cutting became a major health concern and it received a lot of attention.[/quote]
How in the world is that logistically possible… SO if someone is sick or dehydrated for some reason, they aren’t going to be allowed to lift? Alright… I assume you’ve never wrestled or been involved in wrestling. I have no idea how someone can set a weight requirement for something and then remove people’s ability to hit that weight doing something that’s been done for 100s of years. [/quote]
I was trying to give an unbiased answer based on how it could be possible to prevent excessive weight cutting and the possible impacts. You probably misunderstood my purpose that no matter what rules change, people will still test its limits. For example, squatting parallel is defined in the rule book but it doesn’t stop people from trying to get away with a lift that is questionable or slightly high. And for the record, someone that is sick or dehydrated for a day will probably show better hydration results compared to someone cutting 10+ lbs in water weight - it’s not likely for the former to lose that much weight to fail the hydration test.
Here’s my personal opinion: I’m all for weight cutting because all previous records and standards have allowed it. I have wrestled in high school and cut from 135 down to 119 with very little body fat because I thought it allowed me to be more competitive (in hindsight I should’ve stuck at 125 since 119 had much more depth). During the season I remained between 124-126 until a couple days before a meet. Weight cutting has been a problem in wrestling and people have died from it. It’s especially dangerous when people are cutting 10-20 lbs in just a day or two using methods that significantly raise their internal body temperature. That’s the reason why hydration testing came into affect for high school wrestling in Washington - to prevent extreme weight cutting. It didn’t affect me because I graduated a year prior. Like wrestling, that system COULD be implemented in powerlifting if a bunch of people died from cutting too much weight and it gained enough attention for the public/media to pressure powerlifting federations to be safer. I personally plan to cut weight this year to take a shot at the USAPL state record. I know the dangers involved but at the same time I won’t be cutting so much weight to put my life at risk. IMO, weight cutting is naturally a part of competitions with weight classes.
[quote]lift206 wrote:
I was trying to give an unbiased answer based on how it could be possible to prevent excessive weight cutting and the possible impacts. You probably misunderstood my purpose that no matter what rules change, people will still test its limits. For example, squatting parallel is defined in the rule book but it doesn’t stop people from trying to get away with a lift that is questionable or slightly high. And for the record, someone that is sick or dehydrated for a day will probably show better hydration results compared to someone cutting 10+ lbs in water weight - it’s not likely for the former to lose that much weight to fail the hydration test.
Here’s my personal opinion: I’m all for weight cutting because all previous records and standards have allowed it. I have wrestled in high school and cut from 135 down to 119 with very little body fat because I thought it allowed me to be more competitive (in hindsight I should’ve stuck at 125 since 119 had much more depth). During the season I remained between 124-126 until a couple days before a meet. Weight cutting has been a problem in wrestling and people have died from it. It’s especially dangerous when people are cutting 10-20 lbs in just a day or two using methods that significantly raise their internal body temperature. That’s the reason why hydration testing came into affect for high school wrestling in Washington - to prevent extreme weight cutting. It didn’t affect me because I graduated a year prior. Like wrestling, that system COULD be implemented in powerlifting if a bunch of people died from cutting too much weight and it gained enough attention for the public/media to pressure powerlifting federations to be safer. I personally plan to cut weight this year to take a shot at the USAPL state record. I know the dangers involved but at the same time I won’t be cutting so much weight to put my life at risk. IMO, weight cutting is naturally a part of competitions with weight classes.[/quote]
The nice thing IMO about a 2-hour weigh in is that it sort of forces people to be reasonable and not go too crazy. You simply can’t rehydrate in time from a deep cut and your lifts will suffer.
the weigh in debate is just another way for people to bitch about other people being stronger than them.
ermagehrd, joe black competed @ 242 but sits around at 255 what bs amirite his lifts dont count.
[quote]Achilles of war wrote:
the weigh in debate is just another way for people to bitch about other people being stronger than them.
ermagehrd, joe black competed @ 242 but sits around at 255 what bs amirite his lifts dont count.[/quote]
I don’t think it has anything to do with people’s own lifts. I don’t see why it would; everyone is subject to the same rules.
The only time I ever hear people disparaging a 24 hour weigh in is because people are beating the world records of guys who were subject to 2 hour weigh ins. People like being able to compare apples to apples. Records become meaningless if you do not judge everyone to a consistent standard.
It’s the same basic problem really with high squats being passed. Nobody wants to see a world record squat that was buried get beaten by a gift from the judges. Same principle. Ed Coan deadlifted 901 having to weigh 220lbs 2 hours beforehand, and if that record is ever beaten, I would prefer it not be by someone who walked on the platform weighing 245.
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]Achilles of war wrote:
the weigh in debate is just another way for people to bitch about other people being stronger than them.
ermagehrd, joe black competed @ 242 but sits around at 255 what bs amirite his lifts dont count.[/quote]
I don’t think it has anything to do with people’s own lifts. I don’t see why it would; everyone is subject to the same rules.
The only time I ever hear people disparaging a 24 hour weigh in is because people are beating the world records of guys who were subject to 2 hour weigh ins. People like being able to compare apples to apples. Records become meaningless if you do not judge everyone to a consistent standard.
It’s the same basic problem really with high squats being passed. Nobody wants to see a world record squat that was buried get beaten by a gift from the judges. Same principle. Ed Coan deadlifted 901 having to weigh 220lbs 2 hours beforehand, and if that record is ever beaten, I would prefer it not be by someone who walked on the platform weighing 245.[/quote]
What world records though? Like actual records, like say the IPF world record for so and so lift, or some general record like the “biggest squat all of time of 275 lb class”
Personally, I don’t worry about anything outside of my fed. There’s just too many variables. I don’t really think most of the elite level lifters care if their squat in x fed is better than someone other dudes in y fed. I think most of them just try to be the best they can be, and the chips fall from there. I just think the whole chasing the broad across the fed records leads to heartbreak. Some time in the future there will be a 7 day weigh in fed, and there will be 262 guys that compete in the 220. Probably an exaggeration but you know what I mean. Even within your own fed I guess you have to watch out. Like with Norris’ usapl meet, those were set under a 24 hr weigh in if I recall correctly, which obviously isn’t typical of a USAPL but occurred due to the meet being a pretty small one. So I guess I’d change my thoughts to be that one should compare to lifters in their own fed that compete at the same level of meet. So like someone that competes at RUM can compare themselves to the other dudes at RUM. However it’s probably not wise for an IPF world dude to compare himself to a backyard USAPL meet, as obviously the strictness and technicalities of each will be quite different.
[quote]deepsquats220 wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]Achilles of war wrote:
the weigh in debate is just another way for people to bitch about other people being stronger than them.
ermagehrd, joe black competed @ 242 but sits around at 255 what bs amirite his lifts dont count.[/quote]
I don’t think it has anything to do with people’s own lifts. I don’t see why it would; everyone is subject to the same rules.
The only time I ever hear people disparaging a 24 hour weigh in is because people are beating the world records of guys who were subject to 2 hour weigh ins. People like being able to compare apples to apples. Records become meaningless if you do not judge everyone to a consistent standard.
It’s the same basic problem really with high squats being passed. Nobody wants to see a world record squat that was buried get beaten by a gift from the judges. Same principle. Ed Coan deadlifted 901 having to weigh 220lbs 2 hours beforehand, and if that record is ever beaten, I would prefer it not be by someone who walked on the platform weighing 245.[/quote]
What world records though? Like actual records, like say the IPF world record for so and so lift, or some general record like the “biggest squat all of time of 275 lb class”
Personally, I don’t worry about anything outside of my fed. There’s just too many variables. I don’t really think most of the elite level lifters care if their squat in x fed is better than someone other dudes in y fed. I think most of them just try to be the best they can be, and the chips fall from there. I just think the whole chasing the broad across the fed records leads to heartbreak. Some time in the future there will be a 7 day weigh in fed, and there will be 262 guys that compete in the 220. Probably an exaggeration but you know what I mean. Even within your own fed I guess you have to watch out. Like with Norris’ usapl meet, those were set under a 24 hr weigh in if I recall correctly, which obviously isn’t typical of a USAPL but occurred due to the meet being a pretty small one. So I guess I’d change my thoughts to be that one should compare to lifters in their own fed that compete at the same level of meet. So like someone that competes at RUM can compare themselves to the other dudes at RUM. However it’s probably not wise for an IPF world dude to compare himself to a backyard USAPL meet, as obviously the strictness and technicalities of each will be quite different.[/quote]
If a USAPL meet had a 24 hour weigh in, then the results should not be allowed to count. Are you sure this was a USAPL contest?
Also, in USAPL/IPF, world records can only be set at international meets. National records can only be set at national meets. Local meets will only get you local (state) records.
[quote]deepsquats220 wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]Achilles of war wrote:
the weigh in debate is just another way for people to bitch about other people being stronger than them.
ermagehrd, joe black competed @ 242 but sits around at 255 what bs amirite his lifts dont count.[/quote]
I don’t think it has anything to do with people’s own lifts. I don’t see why it would; everyone is subject to the same rules.
The only time I ever hear people disparaging a 24 hour weigh in is because people are beating the world records of guys who were subject to 2 hour weigh ins. People like being able to compare apples to apples. Records become meaningless if you do not judge everyone to a consistent standard.
It’s the same basic problem really with high squats being passed. Nobody wants to see a world record squat that was buried get beaten by a gift from the judges. Same principle. Ed Coan deadlifted 901 having to weigh 220lbs 2 hours beforehand, and if that record is ever beaten, I would prefer it not be by someone who walked on the platform weighing 245.[/quote]
What world records though? Like actual records, like say the IPF world record for so and so lift, or some general record like the “biggest squat all of time of 275 lb class”
Personally, I don’t worry about anything outside of my fed. There’s just too many variables. I don’t really think most of the elite level lifters care if their squat in x fed is better than someone other dudes in y fed. I think most of them just try to be the best they can be, and the chips fall from there.[/quote]
I’m of the opposite mind on this. The vast majority of “world records” are completely meaningless, because all they actually mean are federation records. A true world record is the biggest lift/total across all federations. And I think the people actually in contention for biggest squat/bench/dead/total of all time are not at all content with simply being the best in one fed; they want to be the best, period. They absolutely want to beat everyone across the board.
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]Achilles of war wrote:
the weigh in debate is just another way for people to bitch about other people being stronger than them.
ermagehrd, joe black competed @ 242 but sits around at 255 what bs amirite his lifts dont count.[/quote]
I don’t think it has anything to do with people’s own lifts. I don’t see why it would; everyone is subject to the same rules.
The only time I ever hear people disparaging a 24 hour weigh in is because people are beating the world records of guys who were subject to 2 hour weigh ins. People like being able to compare apples to apples. Records become meaningless if you do not judge everyone to a consistent standard.
It’s the same basic problem really with high squats being passed. Nobody wants to see a world record squat that was buried get beaten by a gift from the judges. Same principle. Ed Coan deadlifted 901 having to weigh 220lbs 2 hours beforehand, and if that record is ever beaten, I would prefer it not be by someone who walked on the platform weighing 245.[/quote]
^This. I actually regret bringing up the way in thing. I mean I’m not discrediting any person that is stronger then me. I just think it is annoying that world records are being broken in illegitimate ways. Then you could say, well why do you care they aren’t your world records. This is true also but, powerlifting needs to be more organized and ran properly so it can grow be a bigger sport so more people can enjoy it and we can see more records being broken in legitimate ways, and we all get to grow from it.
[quote]Umbrata Fortis wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]Achilles of war wrote:
the weigh in debate is just another way for people to bitch about other people being stronger than them.
ermagehrd, joe black competed @ 242 but sits around at 255 what bs amirite his lifts dont count.[/quote]
I don’t think it has anything to do with people’s own lifts. I don’t see why it would; everyone is subject to the same rules.
The only time I ever hear people disparaging a 24 hour weigh in is because people are beating the world records of guys who were subject to 2 hour weigh ins. People like being able to compare apples to apples. Records become meaningless if you do not judge everyone to a consistent standard.
It’s the same basic problem really with high squats being passed. Nobody wants to see a world record squat that was buried get beaten by a gift from the judges. Same principle. Ed Coan deadlifted 901 having to weigh 220lbs 2 hours beforehand, and if that record is ever beaten, I would prefer it not be by someone who walked on the platform weighing 245.[/quote]
^This. I actually regret bringing up the way in thing. I mean I’m not discrediting any person that is stronger then me. I just think it is annoying that world records are being broken in illegitimate ways. Then you could say, well why do you care they aren’t your world records. This is true also but, powerlifting needs to be more organized and ran properly so it can grow be a bigger sport so more people can enjoy it and we can see more records being broken in legitimate ways, and we all get to grow from it.[/quote]
I agree with you. I think the whole weight class thing is necessary, but it sort of takes away the whole point of powerlifting - see how strong you can be. Not how strong you were at 242 compared to 250, or whatever the weight breaks are, but how much you lifted. I could care less if I pull 500 at 275, then 480 at 260, or whatever, the number I know is 500, that’s it, nothing else.
I’m 310 lbs, I can only pull around 500, squat around 475, and bench around 350. I could care less if those numbers were if I were 220 lbs, or 320 lbs, it is what I can do, not what the guy next to me can do, and that is what powerlifting is about. And, guess what, the guy next to me who weighs 220 lbs that pulls 700 lbs is going to cheer me just as loud when I grind up my 500 as I cheer him when he grinds 700.
One thing that is a little frustrating to me is the bench and caving in the chest. It isn’t frustrating to me that it is done, it is frustrating to me because I don’t know when it is and isn’t allowed! What’s it guy from Animal caves in his chest about a foot, where as others barely touch their chest. I train to touch my chest as I know that will pass, but I could add some lbs if I caved in my chest 
[quote]Umbrata Fortis wrote:
^This. I actually regret bringing up the way in thing. I mean I’m not discrediting any person that is stronger then me. I just think it is annoying that world records are being broken in illegitimate ways. Then you could say, well why do you care they aren’t your world records. This is true also but, powerlifting needs to be more organized and ran properly so it can grow be a bigger sport so more people can enjoy it and we can see more records being broken in legitimate ways, and we all get to grow from it.[/quote]
I actually think it’s interesting that you feel that more organization in powerlifting means more people will enjoy it. I actually think it will be the opposite. The more codified the sport becomes, the less participants it will have.
Right now, I can compete raw, classic raw, unassisted, single ply, multi-ply, double-ply, clean, tested, untested, 2 years clean, 2 hour weigh ins, 24 hour weigh ins, 72 hour weigh ins, etc. There are millions of ways I can compete, and millions of places I can do it. I imagine as soon as we say it has to only be single ply, 2 hour weigh ins, drug free (or any other more organized way), it will have less participants.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]Umbrata Fortis wrote:
^This. I actually regret bringing up the way in thing. I mean I’m not discrediting any person that is stronger then me. I just think it is annoying that world records are being broken in illegitimate ways. Then you could say, well why do you care they aren’t your world records. This is true also but, powerlifting needs to be more organized and ran properly so it can grow be a bigger sport so more people can enjoy it and we can see more records being broken in legitimate ways, and we all get to grow from it.[/quote]
I actually think it’s interesting that you feel that more organization in powerlifting means more people will enjoy it. I actually think it will be the opposite. The more codified the sport becomes, the less participants it will have.
Right now, I can compete raw, classic raw, unassisted, single ply, multi-ply, double-ply, clean, tested, untested, 2 years clean, 2 hour weigh ins, 24 hour weigh ins, 72 hour weigh ins, etc. There are millions of ways I can compete, and millions of places I can do it. I imagine as soon as we say it has to only be single ply, 2 hour weigh ins, drug free (or any other more organized way), it will have less participants.[/quote]
If they did try to unify everything into one federation there would undoubtedly be a ton of people who would probably disagree with the set up of that federation. Those people would probably go form their own federations.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]Umbrata Fortis wrote:
^This. I actually regret bringing up the way in thing. I mean I’m not discrediting any person that is stronger then me. I just think it is annoying that world records are being broken in illegitimate ways. Then you could say, well why do you care they aren’t your world records. This is true also but, powerlifting needs to be more organized and ran properly so it can grow be a bigger sport so more people can enjoy it and we can see more records being broken in legitimate ways, and we all get to grow from it.[/quote]
I actually think it’s interesting that you feel that more organization in powerlifting means more people will enjoy it. I actually think it will be the opposite. The more codified the sport becomes, the less participants it will have.
Right now, I can compete raw, classic raw, unassisted, single ply, multi-ply, double-ply, clean, tested, untested, 2 years clean, 2 hour weigh ins, 24 hour weigh ins, 72 hour weigh ins, etc. There are millions of ways I can compete, and millions of places I can do it. I imagine as soon as we say it has to only be single ply, 2 hour weigh ins, drug free (or any other more organized way), it will have less participants.[/quote]
I think what you both are saying are true. There are so many options to choose from and over time some will gain popularity, some will sustain and others will disappear. It’s basically natural selection based on the demands of the powerlifting population. It seems that USAPL is gaining popularity but that doesn’t mean it’ll be the last organization standing since there is much interest in feds for equipped, untested, etc. If you don’t like lifts from other feds then only pay attention to what you’re interested in. I admire watching people push themselves beyond what is commonly thought possible regardless of whether it is raw, equipped, tested, untested, etc. Just accept it for what it is and support the powerlifting community as a whole lol.
USAPL makes just as many bad calls as well. I would take a 100% RAW, RAW UNITED, USPA or Raw Unity judged meet any day over the politics involved in usapl. Not to mention how friggin boring, no excess hyping up, no music, just go to a local usapl meet and try not to fall asleep with all the lifters barely reaching cms
and if you are going to complain that a lifter beating a WR using a 24 weigh in vs the same day weigh in, then you better be someone using modern day inzer belts or wraps or sleeves. These IPF for life kids are the same ones seen using trash bags to get SBD knee sleeves on but “OMGGG 24 weigh in is bs.” Our “raw” equipment is better which already makes it easier.
How does one use a trash bag to get a knee sleeve on?
I am learning so much in this thread.
[quote]trivium wrote:
How does one use a trash bag to get a knee sleeve on?
I am learning so much in this thread.[/quote]
Just like a suit slipper I think. If you ordered the SBDs a few sizes too small I hear you can get some poundage out of them… only downside is you can’t get them on very easily.
OOOH BABY I LIKE IT RAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.
AT THE END OF THE DAY YOUR JUST PLAYING YA SELF WITH GIMMICKS. GARBAGE BAG SLEEVES THEY BELONG IN THERE MUAHAHHA.
What ever makes you happy, compete in that one.Raw meets seem to be hard to find around here the meet close 2 me filled up months ago and it happens in a few months, fuckery!
[quote]Jlabs wrote:
OOOH BABY I LIKE IT RAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.
AT THE END OF THE DAY YOUR JUST PLAYING YA SELF WITH GIMMICKS. GARBAGE BAG SLEEVES THEY BELONG IN THERE MUAHAHHA.
What ever makes you happy, compete in that one.Raw meets seem to be hard to find around here the meet close 2 me filled up months ago and it happens in a few months, fuckery![/quote]
Everyone of the OPA meets in Ontario has unequipped lifting. I don’t know what city you’re in but there are still meets on the calendar with space in them. Upcoming Events. Which meet were you trying to get into?