I may get flamed or ridiculed but I feel as though in light of the recent new world record lifters should be outraged that such squats get passed.
Should we as a powerlifting community accept ridiculously high squats as records? Should we criticize a stronger lifter even if he was given a “gift”. Do we even care?
No doubt that Dave Hoff is a strong motherfucker and he can move some serious weight, but that squat was absolute horse shit and everybody knows it. It shouldn’t have counted and he shouldn’t have gotten the record. This is why multi-ply lifting is retarded in my opinion (inb4 shit storm). Of course, you’ll hear people say, “It’s completely different and adds a whole other element to the sport,” which is correct, but still, let’s be honest.
Does anybody find squatting 1,200+ lbs. to 4" ABOVE parallel impressive in any way, shape, or form? I sure as hell don’t, and neither should anybody who gives to shits about this sport.
Don’t get me wrong, the bench and deadlift were legit lifts (even if they were done in multi-ply), but I still can’t get over the squat.
In my opinion, the most pure and unadulterated form of powerlifting is anything done in the IPF, USAPL, or USPF, where you walk your squats out, knee wraps aren’t allowed in the raw division, the judges are nazis when it comes to depth and bench pauses, and the most equipment you can use is single-ply.
I’d like to see how any of these Westside guys fare in any of the legit federations that I mentioned above. Just my $0.02.
inb4 tl;dr.
CS
why can’t they take a vid and use vid analysis to determine depth?
depth is objective… why not utilize the technology to save the sport?
Was the judging at least consistent?
The interwebz is blowing up right now about this and everyones taking personal shots at dave hoff and all the westside guys, when really its the judges to blame. Should that squat have been passed? no, absolutely not. should all the blame fall on dave hoff and the westside guys because judges passed the lift?
again, no absolutely not. So everyone on the interwebz should stop talking shit, and actually get together a group of people who want to find better judging for powerlifting and do something and change the way lifts are judged rather than hate on the internet.
also i do realize that this is the westside guys meet, louie was calling depth on the squat, and who the hell was gonna challenge him? so yeah politics probably played a role which sucks but again do something about it rather than seeing all the internet hate with jokes about box squatting and shit as if it does anything
Not my fed, I don’t care. If I don’t like their rules, I simply don’t compete in their federation. I don’t understand why everyone gets so wound up over this stuff.
I’d like to one day see PLing in the Olympics, but not with this horse shit. For 30yrs PLing number’s hardly varied within a hundred pounds or so. In the last 10ish years the squat, and bench numbers have almost doubled.(really) Every Fed has a whole different set of rules on what raw or geared is. No wonder alot of the great lifters are hanging up they’re suits, and going raw. Soon we’ll have 2000lb squats with a 5ply suit, and a spring on your ass. I know the question was abouty depth, but it’s become depressing. PLing should be considered a real sport, not a ridiculous joke. To get in the olympics the sport needs to reboot, back to basics. another 2cents
But shouldn’t we care even if it is not our fed just because it does get viewed as a world record. Shouldn’t we all band together and find a way to stop this? I guess we can’t if people still compete in those Feds.
[quote]AnytimeJake wrote:
I’d like to one day see PLing in the Olympics, but not with this horse shit. For 30yrs PLing number’s hardly varied within a hundred pounds or so. In the last 10ish years the squat, and bench numbers have almost doubled.(really) Every Fed has a whole different set of rules on what raw or geared is. No wonder alot of the great lifters are hanging up they’re suits, and going raw. Soon we’ll have 2000lb squats with a 5ply suit, and a spring on your ass. I know the question was abouty depth, but it’s become depressing. PLing should be considered a real sport, not a ridiculous joke. To get in the olympics the sport needs to reboot, back to basics. another 2cents[/quote]
Yeah powerlifting in the Olympics would be awesome but it’s probably something that won’t ever happen.
[quote]scottkoscielniak wrote:
But shouldn’t we care even if it is not our fed just because it does get viewed as a world record. Shouldn’t we all band together and find a way to stop this? I guess we can’t if people still compete in those Feds. [/quote]
I think so I mean you gotta have standards and uphold them.
A little off topic, but I wonder if raw powerlifting was in the Olympics, would Louie Simmons start gearing his gym and training style for it?
Olympic raw PLing… I think that would raise raw records in a hurry!
But powerlifting as a sport would definitely have to unify for it to be possible and standardization of what is and isn’t legit would be a start towards that end.
Same old, same old. Does anyone still care about what goes on in multiply feds?
That squat resembled a lot of what I see done in the commercial gym that I visit, albeit with about 1000 more pounds on the bar. Still, it always irks me to see the “record” numbers get skewed like that.
As a sidenote, it also always bothers me to see people like Hoff madly soliloquize like that for about five minutes at the top of their deadlift. Sure, 815 pounds is freaking huge, but do you have to scream like that for that long when you hit it? I admittedly have no idea what he was saying, but can’t imagine that he was thanking his sponsors. Where’s the sportsmanship?
This is about how deep they squat at my local community/tech school football team for their max day, so whatever. It counts there, why not for a world record?
Seriously though, I just have troubles caring. I love heavy lifting and I think its cool that theres attempts to standardize it into a sport (PL/Strongman) but this depth is clearly not even close. Oh well.
Should have prefaced with this comment though: a 1200 pound half squat is still fucking strong.
I definitely agree that Hoff’s squat was short, I think we all do. I also think that you shouldn’t be able to judge your own guys, or your own meet for that matter. Not taking anything away from Hoff, that is a shit ton of weight to half squat. I still think he eventually breaks the record because he had an easy 20 more #'s in the deadlift, if not more. That brings me to the whole geared vs raw debate. Im a fan of strictly raw lifting. I would love to see it in the Olympics.
And yes, I think you would see guys like Louie Simmons switch their focus to raw lifting. It seems like Mark Bell at Supertraining Gym is already looking that way. In my opinion, multiply is not a test of true strength. It’s a different sport all together.
[quote]scottkoscielniak wrote:
But shouldn’t we care even if it is not our fed just because it does get viewed as a world record. Shouldn’t we all band together and find a way to stop this? I guess we can’t if people still compete in those Feds. [/quote]
There are SOOOOO many stupid world records out there. There are ones for staying awake the longest and longest fingernails and crap like that. I don’t care about any of those either.
I compete in powerlifting because I want to lift heavy things. I don’t really care how the general public views it, or about unity or alliances or anything like that. Personally, I like that there are a million federations, because it means everyone can compete however they like, versus having to compete the way someone tells them to compete.
Kaz is DEEP: Bill Kazmaier - 2,149 lb Total - YouTube
Coan is “below parallel” Ed Coan 950 lb x 2 Squat - YouTube
Malanichev is dead on parallel, should not be passed in my opinion but that’s not a travesty if it gets passed: Malanichev 1047 Squat - Powerlifting & Strength Sports - Forums - T Nation
If we call Kaz a -2, Coan a -1 and Malanichev a 0 this guys 1200 pound squat is probably a +2 or +3.
Now I have seen some guys with super thick thighs that are just as deep as a -1 or 0 squat but may look high. While I don’t like them, I think that from a biomechanical point of view, dead on parallel or deeper require the same level of strength to complete. The lever arm of the femur is greatest (most force) at dead on parallel, and actually goes down slightly if you get below. And yes some guys are at biomechanic parallel at a +1 position (but I think that’s the price they pay for size).
But a +2 or +3 squat becomes a joke. Its a partial lift with different biomechanics. And these guys could hit parallel if they came in a little and took off some weight.
By the way, they can just put a fluorescent sticker on the top of the crease and the top of the knee and a level video camera can tell 100% if the line they make is horizontal.
I remember Anthony Clark saying around '93 that he wanted to push the total record to the mid 2600s where it could never be touched, and THEN go for an unbreakable 800 pound bench press.
[quote]kgildner wrote:
As a sidenote, it also always bothers me to see people like Hoff madly soliloquize like that for about five minutes at the top of their deadlift. Sure, 815 pounds is freaking huge, but do you have to scream like that for that long when you hit it? I admittedly have no idea what he was saying, but can’t imagine that he was thanking his sponsors. Where’s the sportsmanship?[/quote]
Well, I think his “pre-meet stack” might play a big part in that.
ps: The Westside boys at the Olympic Games? Haha
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]scottkoscielniak wrote:
But shouldn’t we care even if it is not our fed just because it does get viewed as a world record. Shouldn’t we all band together and find a way to stop this? I guess we can’t if people still compete in those Feds. [/quote]
There are SOOOOO many stupid world records out there. There are ones for staying awake the longest and longest fingernails and crap like that. I don’t care about any of those either.
I compete in powerlifting because I want to lift heavy things. I don’t really care how the general public views it, or about unity or alliances or anything like that. Personally, I like that there are a million federations, because it means everyone can compete however they like, versus having to compete the way someone tells them to compete.[/quote]
In the end you are correct. Part of me just wishes this sport would unify. There can be a few Feds still but it would be pretty awesome for there to be one big time fed that was legit and held state quilifiers for a championship of some sorts. It gets to me that the overall world record totals are such a sham. I guess I’m just as much a fan as I am a competitor sometimes.
I’d rather just watch this:
It’s basically exactly what Dave did, but Kevin and Ryan actually walk with the weight, and are doing it ‘raw’.
JUS SAYIN GUISE.