TaeKwondo- A Course at My College? Yes, Yes It Is =D

Training
41

[quote]GVkid wrote:
I know in my club we practice Chung Do Kwan which is the blue-wave school of tae kwon do, and we practice a couple of take downs (without ending on the ground) having said that, we also take a little from every discipline for our self defense portion of the class. I have yet to see anyone work on take-downs in sparring or tourney’s though. Either way, OP I would highly recommend the class. As someone mentioned, you’ll get flexibility, coordination, kicking techniques, and probably learn a bit about yourself. Keep in mind that the basics can be very repetitive and sometimes it might take you a while to get to the cool stuff.

Enjoy![/quote]

x2 thats basicly what i was trying to get at. but apparently without “proof”, takedowns are a taboo subject in TKD. thanks mang.

42

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Beast Status wrote:
Im just trying to push the OP into persuing the class.[/quote]

Yea you never know, maybe your “black belt” cousin teaches it.

[/quote]

doubtfull. we are too busy comparing top abz and curling in the squat rack like typical irish/american “wops” from new england.

43

Shit…I have to ask:

Beast Status,I’m curious as to what kicks you’re learning from your TKD blackbelt partner that are not in “classic” Muay Thai…and for what purpose…???

44

[quote]blackngrey609 wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Beast Status wrote:
Im just trying to push the OP into persuing the class.[/quote]

Yea you never know, maybe your “black belt” cousin teaches it.

[/quote]

Is he trying to argue with a new jersian??? CRAZY!!! [/quote]

This is going to be offtopic, sorry. Not being from the US (as pointed out repeatedly), I can’t quite follow the New Jersey thing. Somebody please explain.

45

[quote]Beast Status wrote:

[quote]GVkid wrote:
I know in my club we practice Chung Do Kwan which is the blue-wave school of tae kwon do, and we practice a couple of take downs (without ending on the ground) having said that, we also take a little from every discipline for our self defense portion of the class. I have yet to see anyone work on take-downs in sparring or tourney’s though. Either way, OP I would highly recommend the class. As someone mentioned, you’ll get flexibility, coordination, kicking techniques, and probably learn a bit about yourself. Keep in mind that the basics can be very repetitive and sometimes it might take you a while to get to the cool stuff.

Enjoy![/quote]

x2 thats basicly what i was trying to get at. but apparently without “proof”, takedowns are a taboo subject in TKD. thanks mang.
[/quote]

Reading comprehension, pal. You started the whole “proof” / “taboo” thing. When this started, I was limiting the “no throws” to the - in my opinion only - significant federations, ITF and WTF. It was out of curiosity that I asked where you find throws and takedowns. Your (apparent) attempt to google it brought up something that is not TKD. Now, there’s that Chung Do Kwan thing, as GVkid said. Fine, there we have a form of TKD that has throws and stuff, but it’s not a major fed.

Having said that, your statement about “not national tournament style TKD” amuses me, pal. What kind of “World Champion” makes you think national tournaments? Just wondering…

46

[quote]FirestormWarrior wrote:

[quote]Beast Status wrote:

[quote]GVkid wrote:
I know in my club we practice Chung Do Kwan which is the blue-wave school of tae kwon do, and we practice a couple of take downs (without ending on the ground) having said that, we also take a little from every discipline for our self defense portion of the class. I have yet to see anyone work on take-downs in sparring or tourney’s though. Either way, OP I would highly recommend the class. As someone mentioned, you’ll get flexibility, coordination, kicking techniques, and probably learn a bit about yourself. Keep in mind that the basics can be very repetitive and sometimes it might take you a while to get to the cool stuff.

Enjoy![/quote]

x2 thats basicly what i was trying to get at. but apparently without “proof”, takedowns are a taboo subject in TKD. thanks mang.
[/quote]

Reading comprehension, pal. You started the whole “proof” / “taboo” thing. When this started, I was limiting the “no throws” to the - in my opinion only - significant federations, ITF and WTF. It was out of curiosity that I asked where you find throws and takedowns. Your (apparent) attempt to google it brought up something that is not TKD. Now, there’s that Chung Do Kwan thing, as GVkid said. Fine, there we have a form of TKD that has throws and stuff, but it’s not a major fed.

Having said that, your statement about “not national tournament style TKD” amuses me, pal. What kind of “World Champion” makes you think national tournaments? Just wondering…
[/quote]

Actually. The only reason i was in this thread was to push the OP into taking college TKD classes, where in my opinion he would learn takedowns. U are the one who jumped on my shit for saying so, bringing tournament TKD as your leverage. FAwk man, relax bro. Of course i googled my shit, cuz u were asking for names of some secret TKD hip toss. Once again…In my opinion, he will learn some basic throws, in his basic TKD class. Self defense or however implemented, the dude isnt trying to compete on a national level. This is a basic martial arts class dude.

47

We do throws in the self defense portion of our curriculum…BUT my instructor is mostly a judo guy and was a huge badass. If you guys know who jon bluming is, my instructor threw the shit out of him back in the day. So alot of our higher ranks are crosstrained in Judo, which Kyu Ha Kim really emphasizes, even prior to MMA.

Muay Thai and Tkd go very very well together. I can throw thai style roundhouses quite easily and the mechanics are not that different, but hitting with the shin is a much noticeable difference and is a must for leg kicks. The chambering from TKD helps your knee strikes in Thai…

Whoever made the comment about a good dwi chagi is absolutley right. A back kick from a good taekwondo practioner is absolutely LETHAL. They are super fast and will destroy you. With or without a hogu.

Firestorm warrior, as I understand you do ITF. I know there is alot of splintered ITF orgs but I have seen videos of alot of full contact ITF mainly from the eastern european countries and that is probably the coolest fightsport ive ever seen. Produced guys like Zelg Galesic…who is incredible with standup. There is a guy named Phillip Ameris near me who I think is ITF, had alot of articles in Black Belt Magazine and seems to be quite a badass.

48

[quote]666Rich wrote:
Muay Thai and Tkd go very very well together. I can throw thai style roundhouses quite easily and the mechanics are not that different, but hitting with the shin is a much noticeable difference and is a must for leg kicks. The chambering from TKD helps your knee strikes in Thai…
[/quote]

How is your punching game? Also…the biggest thing I have with guys from TKD is their stance and reaching for kicks. They have the hardest time adjusting to be able to throw sound thai-style kicks…and of course,their hands are shit. I guess some of that is dependent on what federation/style of TKD they come from…???

49

[quote]666Rich wrote:
We do throws in the self defense portion of our curriculum…BUT my instructor is mostly a judo guy and was a huge badass. If you guys know who jon bluming is, my instructor threw the shit out of him back in the day. So alot of our higher ranks are crosstrained in Judo, which Kyu Ha Kim really emphasizes, even prior to MMA.

Muay Thai and Tkd go very very well together. I can throw thai style roundhouses quite easily and the mechanics are not that different, but hitting with the shin is a much noticeable difference and is a must for leg kicks. The chambering from TKD helps your knee strikes in Thai…[/quote]

I think there’s quite some differences, especially between WTF style kicking and Muay Thai. In TKF, you’d keep your center of gravity lower and don’t strike out (is that the correct term to use here?). Also, taking about my beloved Dwit Chagi, in WTF you’d rather kick it with knee and toes pointing downwards.
ITF probably comes a bit closer, but is still very different.

As for the low kicks (why’s everyone calling them “leg kicks”?), you can kick them with the instep, depending on your target. In our self defense classes, we do instep-roundhouse kicks to the knee. That’s enough to damage a knee and/or buy some time to escape the scene.

When fighting a fighter, especially if there’s some rules intact, of course, you’d use your shinbone.

Yeah, my comment. Been there, done that. Anyhow, it’s actually Dwit Chagi ;).

[quote]
Firestorm warrior, as I understand you do ITF. I know there is alot of splintered ITF orgs but I have seen videos of alot of full contact ITF mainly from the eastern european countries and that is probably the coolest fightsport ive ever seen. Produced guys like Zelg Galesic…who is incredible with standup. There is a guy named Phillip Ameris near me who I think is ITF, had alot of articles in Black Belt Magazine and seems to be quite a badass.[/quote]

Done both. ITF and WTF. Also competed open style and ETF (Euro-Taekwondo Federation).
Also did kickboxing, boxing, muay thai, some kyokushinkai, some krav maga, some judo, some capoeira, some bjj, …

Over the last 10 years I’ve primarily practiced a style called “Shinergy”. That’s also what I’m teaching full-time. Evolved from TKD (there’s 3 TKD world champions amongst the trainer team), but was completed by boxing and wing tsun hand techniques, lowkicks and some (very, very fundamental) ground-fighting. Also, a throw or two. 99% stand-up.

50

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

[quote]666Rich wrote:
Muay Thai and Tkd go very very well together. I can throw thai style roundhouses quite easily and the mechanics are not that different, but hitting with the shin is a much noticeable difference and is a must for leg kicks. The chambering from TKD helps your knee strikes in Thai…
[/quote]

How is your punching game? Also…the biggest thing I have with guys from TKD is their stance and reaching for kicks. They have the hardest time adjusting to be able to throw sound thai-style kicks…and of course,their hands are shit. I guess some of that is dependent on what federation/style of TKD they come from…???[/quote]

As for the kicks… sorry, no native speaker… what do you mean by “reaching for kicks”? Also, “the stance” is confusing me. I’ve seen like 100 stances with 100 fighters ;). You really need to stop thinking styles and rather think fighters. Between you and me, a good fighter can be successfull with TKD, Karate, Boxing, Judo or Muay Thai or just any other thing… for a fighter who’s lacking heart, focus and maybe some of what you’d call “killer instinct”, the most complete, most sophisticated style will propably be useless.

As for the hands… yeah, it depends. As I said, ITF uses everything you might find in kickboxing when it comes to hand techniques, plus (spinning) backfists, knive hand (yes, it’s actually used and can be devastating) and hammer hand techniques… all of which is forbidden, of course, in WTF (olympic style) sparring (to be thrown to the head. Body-shots are ok).

51

[quote]FirestormWarrior wrote:

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

[quote]666Rich wrote:
Muay Thai and Tkd go very very well together. I can throw thai style roundhouses quite easily and the mechanics are not that different, but hitting with the shin is a much noticeable difference and is a must for leg kicks. The chambering from TKD helps your knee strikes in Thai…
[/quote]

How is your punching game? Also…the biggest thing I have with guys from TKD is their stance and reaching for kicks. They have the hardest time adjusting to be able to throw sound thai-style kicks…and of course,their hands are shit. I guess some of that is dependent on what federation/style of TKD they come from…???[/quote]

As for the kicks… sorry, no native speaker… what do you mean by “reaching for kicks”? Also, “the stance” is confusing me. I’ve seen like 100 stances with 100 fighters ;). You really need to stop thinking styles and rather think fighters. Between you and me, a good fighter can be successfull with TKD, Karate, Boxing, Judo or Muay Thai or just any other thing… for a fighter who’s lacking heart, focus and maybe some of what you’d call “killer instinct”, the most complete, most sophisticated style will propably be useless.

As for the hands… yeah, it depends. As I said, ITF uses everything you might find in kickboxing when it comes to hand techniques, plus (spinning) backfists, knive hand (yes, it’s actually used and can be devastating) and hammer hand techniques… all of which is forbidden, of course, in WTF (olympic style) sparring (to be thrown to the head. Body-shots are ok).[/quote]

Well…“styles” do influence the fighter and their habits…just more so than the next guy sometimes. Which falls into my observation of a lot of TKD guys(in my experiences) getting more “sideways” in their stance. Something that is not optimal for aspects of Muay Thai.

As for “reaching” it’s just a term used when a guy doesn’t truly commit to his kicks and/or not being in best range for whatever kick they are executing. i.e. the few TKD guys we have that made the switch to Muay Thai tend to pull their hips short of turning over. Almost as if they are trying to “tap” their opponent with their foot/instep instead of going through them with their shin.

Almost in a point-karate way. IDK…that best I can explain it over the internet. Maybe it’s just a matter of them adjusting to getting in range to make contact with shin instead of instep…?? I’m not saying any of the above is universal for TKD guys…just observations of my particular experience with them. And if it’s worth anything I came from TSD/Hapkido background before Muay Thai.

52

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

[quote]FirestormWarrior wrote:

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

[quote]666Rich wrote:
Muay Thai and Tkd go very very well together. I can throw thai style roundhouses quite easily and the mechanics are not that different, but hitting with the shin is a much noticeable difference and is a must for leg kicks. The chambering from TKD helps your knee strikes in Thai…
[/quote]

How is your punching game? Also…the biggest thing I have with guys from TKD is their stance and reaching for kicks. They have the hardest time adjusting to be able to throw sound thai-style kicks…and of course,their hands are shit. I guess some of that is dependent on what federation/style of TKD they come from…???[/quote]

As for the kicks… sorry, no native speaker… what do you mean by “reaching for kicks”? Also, “the stance” is confusing me. I’ve seen like 100 stances with 100 fighters ;). You really need to stop thinking styles and rather think fighters. Between you and me, a good fighter can be successfull with TKD, Karate, Boxing, Judo or Muay Thai or just any other thing… for a fighter who’s lacking heart, focus and maybe some of what you’d call “killer instinct”, the most complete, most sophisticated style will propably be useless.

As for the hands… yeah, it depends. As I said, ITF uses everything you might find in kickboxing when it comes to hand techniques, plus (spinning) backfists, knive hand (yes, it’s actually used and can be devastating) and hammer hand techniques… all of which is forbidden, of course, in WTF (olympic style) sparring (to be thrown to the head. Body-shots are ok).[/quote]

Well…“styles” do influence the fighter and their habits…just more so than the next guy sometimes. Which falls into my observation of a lot of TKD guys(in my experiences) getting more “sideways” in their stance. Something that is not optimal for aspects of Muay Thai.

As for “reaching” it’s just a term used when a guy doesn’t truly commit to his kicks and/or not being in best range for whatever kick they are executing. i.e. the few TKD guys we have that made the switch to Muay Thai tend to pull their hips short of turning over. Almost as if they are trying to “tap” their opponent with their foot/instep instead of going through them with their shin.

Almost in a point-karate way. IDK…that best I can explain it over the internet. Maybe it’s just a matter of them adjusting to getting in range to make contact with shin instead of instep…?? I’m not saying any of the above is universal for TKD guys…just observations of my particular experience with them. And if it’s worth anything I came from TSD/Hapkido background before Muay Thai. [/quote]

I see what you’re getting at. Can’t even agree with you, of course styles influence fighters. Especial,y rules do. Think SAID. Practicing point fighting only will make you a superb point fighter but might just take power from your technique by adapting to the demands of pointfighting. As you said, that’s where “reaching” comes in play.

Also, I agree that the sideway stance is not particularly great for Muay Thai. But that’s pretty much a WTF thing. In ITF (or open style, my personal favourite :wink: ) where you’re allowed to punch to the head, just like in kickboxing, the stance “straightens up” a bit. Still, more sideways than Muay Thai, but then that stance (particularly the “L” position the feet are in) isn’t all that great, either, in my opinion.

When talking about “not commiting oneself”… comes down to the fighter and the situation I say. Ever watched Muay Thai as done in Thailand? Those sideway knees from the clinch? Lots of points-only tapping there. Which brings us back to rules and scoring systems. As soon as there is any, fighters will take advantage of / adapt to it. That’s not a bad thing, mind you, that’s the way it should be.

Just sometimes, it’s annoying the audience (think soccer players who whine because they were touched … that’s part of the game, albeit a shite one).

53

I will say that most WTF guys have shitty hands. Its a huge gripe of mine. Thankfully i competed in boxing before I ever did tkd.

54

This guy is a good example of how tkd kicks can look.

55

[quote]666Rich wrote:

This guy is a good example of how tkd kicks can look.

[/quote]

I know that guy. He’s the one who’s doing youtube tutorials on stuff like the tornado kick, right? Not meaning to be disrepectful, but I’m not overly impressed.

Check out Warren Vice, he’s I-don’t-know-how-many-times world champion in Open Style TKD (the style I mostly compete in). That guy proves everybody who calls TKD kick inefficient wrong. Sorry.

56

This guy is a good example of how tkd kicks can look.

[/quote]

His guard is crap though… Check out the right hand flailing around… At least his left is somewhat in position

57

[quote]GVkid wrote:
This guy is a good example of how tkd kicks can look.

[/quote]

His guard is crap though… Check out the right hand flailing around… At least his left is somewhat in position[/quote]

yeah those kicks are good if your competing in a Taekwondo comp. Where the regulations allow you to throw those kicks without fear of sweeps and takedowns. I saw about 100 oppertunities where in a street fight i coulda taken that guy down and kiclled him.

That being said watching 2 teakwondo masters compete is on of the most amazing things i’ve ever seen and respect it alot as a sport.

58

[quote]666Rich wrote:

This guy is a good example of how tkd kicks can look.

[/quote]

LOL…Being that I am a decent level of tkd at the moment lol. I beg to differ on this video. Being bias to TKD,in my opinion they have the best kickers in the world. Muay Thai and tkd are very similiar in the mechanics but all good WTF Olympic style fighters kick hard and have excellent leg control. Muay Thai fighters find it harder to transition from kicking technique to kicking technique because all kicks are thrown hard without thought of transitions…Purely for damage.

Martials Arts are all about how you use them.Ive sparred Muay Thai fighters,Wushu, and some Jujitsu stylist,who all have something to offer. Just about application…

Here is good tkd kicker.

sorry about the quality of the vid.