I think Taekwondo is Underrated

Bigger Stronger Leaner
1

Taekwondo has been severely watered down to a silly sport where people don’t keep their hands up nowadays.

However, if you look at the REAL, traditional taekwondo, I think it’s pretty effective (not perfect or the best martial art, but effective).

Anecdotal evidence: I just sparred a black belt, heavyweight, Muay Thai figher. I won. With TDK. (and not just a little, but as in he has a black eye and I’m unscathed)

Now I realize that the problem with TDK is that it’s a distance art, so what happens when people close the distance and you can’t kick them? Real TDK has stuff like hooking punches, elbows, and even throws (but I personally prefer jujitsu for close range).

What do you think?

2

Doing any high kicks you run a risk of getting countered hard in many many ways, especially if someone knows you do TKD from the beginning

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[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:
Doing any high kicks you run a risk of getting countered hard in many many ways, especially if someone knows you do TKD from the beginning[/quote]
Body kicks are super effective. I personally see low kicks as useless

4

You won in sparring? Against a black belt in a martial art with no belts? I salute you, good sir!

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[quote]shadowbobo8028 wrote:

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:
Doing any high kicks you run a risk of getting countered hard in many many ways, especially if someone knows you do TKD from the beginning[/quote]
Body kicks are super effective. I personally see low kicks as useless[/quote]

Then you are not doing them right.

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[quote]shadowbobo8028 wrote:
I think Taekwondo is underrated

[/quote]

That’s nice.

7

I would agree that TKD has some great techniques, almost all Martial arts do. I had a great friend when I was in the Marine Corps, he was a 2nd degree black belt. He was a pretty good fighter and could kick hard as hell. He saved me one time from a severe ass beating I was getting from two guys outside an arcade. He almost never used punches, I am aware TKD has them. I trained in Tang Soo Do when I was a kid. A Korean Art with pretty much the same stuff as Tae Kwan Do but no tornado kicks and the fancy stuff. I was awarded a purple belt in that art.

All that being said, I see the real issue being that no matter what you get into nowdays it is watered down. There is no lack of posers who want to “be into” something and they train in an art or better said they come to the classes and they might even focus on some of the big techniques but they never train to fight. This topic has been covered in here a couple of times about the school and instructor are sometimes more important than the art itself. TKD is the national sport of Korea and the dojos get govt funding in many cases. With the expansion of things you get changes and dilution. That is the problem with TKD and many other Karate styles. Moreover, the way in which they are taught really inhibits a practitioner from learning how to fight. I practiced Uechi Ryu in Okinawa under Shinjo sensei for a little over 2 years. He is one of only two 9th dans in the world and the lineage can be traced back to Uechi san himself. Shinjo sensei is renowned for making good Kumite fighters and I have met many of them and sparred a few. My observation overall is that much time is put into kata and discipline, honor, respect etc… All of those are great things for people, but learning timing, distance, footwork and how to pick and opening to make a good shot is not something that most traditional schools teach until 2nd or 3rd black belt level and in many cases not at all. Now I know there are exceptions, thank god there are, and that is great but the reason people underrate TKD is probably do to so many schools teaching in such manner and people who don’t stick with it long enough to learn how to make it work.

Hope that wasn’t too much rambling and you see my point.

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[quote]shadowbobo8028 wrote:

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:
Doing any high kicks you run a risk of getting countered hard in many many ways, especially if someone knows you do TKD from the beginning[/quote]
Body kicks are super effective. I personally see low kicks as useless[/quote]

From that statement I can see you have a TKD mindset. I use leg kicks relentlessly, many times I just aim for the knee. If you can’t stand up you can’t fight, unless you have some jiu jitsu or wrestling but if your leg is damaged to that point good luck holding position.

Also I use my hands to set up leg kicks and vice versa, the other side of that after you kick his legs real damn hard it is super satisfying to throw in a switch kick to the body, because yes they are effective.

This also brings home my point about footwork and setting up your big shots. You can’t just go out there and do Kata on an opponent you have to be able to see when you can place a good shot and that area is 90% of fighting IMO

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[quote]shadowbobo8028 wrote:

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:
Doing any high kicks you run a risk of getting countered hard in many many ways, especially if someone knows you do TKD from the beginning[/quote]
Body kicks are super effective. I personally see low kicks as useless[/quote]

Yes body kicks can be effective. Harai goshi can be very effective until you get countered with a big te guruma. And double leg takedowns are very effective until you get countered with a guillotine choke.

The point is, every time you perform some attack you are simultaneously making yourself vulnerable. (It is intrinsically part of fighting. This is why attacks have to be strung together in combinations quickly.) High kicks leave you more vulnerable to counters than low kicks

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[quote]shadowbobo8028 wrote:

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:
Doing any high kicks you run a risk of getting countered hard in many many ways, especially if someone knows you do TKD from the beginning[/quote]
Body kicks are super effective. I personally see low kicks as useless[/quote]

hmm, probably haven’t felt one before then. A proper low kick that is.

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[quote]Fistiecuffs wrote:
You won in sparring? Against a black belt in a martial art with no belts? I salute you, good sir![/quote]

My thoughts exactly, sounds like a troll job to me.

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[quote]Ranzo wrote:

[quote]shadowbobo8028 wrote:

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:
Doing any high kicks you run a risk of getting countered hard in many many ways, especially if someone knows you do TKD from the beginning[/quote]
Body kicks are super effective. I personally see low kicks as useless[/quote]

From that statement I can see you have a TKD mindset. I use leg kicks relentlessly, many times I just aim for the knee. If you can’t stand up you can’t fight, unless you have some jiu jitsu or wrestling but if your leg is damaged to that point good luck holding position.

Also I use my hands to set up leg kicks and vice versa, the other side of that after you kick his legs real damn hard it is super satisfying to throw in a switch kick to the body, because yes they are effective.

This also brings home my point about footwork and setting up your big shots. You can’t just go out there and do Kata on an opponent you have to be able to see when you can place a good shot and that area is 90% of fighting IMO[/quote]

Agreed. The truth is that any technique can be countered if it is not performed perfectly (which means perfectly set-up, perfect timing, perfect accuracy, and perfect speed) and any technique (within reason, that no touch “chi ball” crap doesn’t count) can be undefendable if it is performed perfectly.

The advantages that low kicks have over high kicks are:
Weapon travels a shorter distance, therefore opponent has less time to react
Less alteration in balance means both quicker recovery and also less likelihood of winding up on your head should things go wrong
Destroys the opponent’s base of support and power (their legs) the decreasing mobility and stability
Less loss of balance means more powerful round kicks.

The advantages that high kicks have over low kicks are:
They attack more vital targets that can shut down the whole system (Brain, liver, bladder, heart, lungs)
In the case of straight line kicks like side kicks and push kicks to the body have maximal reach and can create not only a powerful kick but also a “posting/poling/wedging” effect to create or maintain distance

Both types of kicks are useful and effective if you utilize them correctly and both can be countered. So the more important question isn’t the efficacy of the techniques themselves but how you are training said techniques and whether you can apply them effectively against resistance. Sadly, most TKD schools fail to do this; that (along with 10 year old black belts) is why TKD gets a such a bad name among combative oriented Martial Artists.

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was you ITF or WTA? I have a background in TKD and still practice semi-regular would love to talk to some one with a different outlook

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All the people in TKD I know who keep their hands down get kicked in the head. It’s that simple. It’s common to keep them down when outside kicking distance, but it doesn’t really matter that far out. If you get close you still have to bring them up, but the reality is you are guarding against different techniques so it’s going to look different. Don’t look for bonus points from the crowd by taking a dig at Olympic TKD.

As far as TKD vs other sport… I think the only advantage there is if the other person doesn’t know you can do it, as someone mentioned earlier. If people stood as close to me in TKD as they did in MMA I’d have a field day. But if people could punch me in the face or take me down I wouldn’t feel so lucky.

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[quote]NAUn wrote:
All the people in TKD I know who keep their hands down get kicked in the head. It’s that simple. It’s common to keep them down when outside kicking distance, but it doesn’t really matter that far out. If you get close you still have to bring them up, but the reality is you are guarding against different techniques so it’s going to look different. Don’t look for bonus points from the crowd by taking a dig at Olympic TKD.

As far as TKD vs other sport… I think the only advantage there is if the other person doesn’t know you can do it, as someone mentioned earlier. If people stood as close to me in TKD as they did in MMA I’d have a field day. But if people could punch me in the face or take me down I wouldn’t feel so lucky.[/quote]
I don’t think you understand what’s real TKD (which is understandable since it’s so rare nowadays).
All you’ve seen are the lame sports on TV and from crappy sports practitioners.
I’m talking about traditional, combat applicable TKD. It’s extremely deadly and power driven.
I ALWAYS keep my hands up. Especially since my version of TKD was influences from Chinese boxing & kung-fu

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[quote]shadowbobo8028 wrote:
I don’t think you understand what’s real TKD (which is understandable since it’s so rare nowadays).

All you’ve seen are the lame sports on TV and from crappy sports practitioners.
I’m talking about traditional, combat applicable TKD. It’s extremely deadly and power driven.[/quote]

Of COURSE it is!

Otherwise how might you beat those vicious muay Thai black belts …

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^^^ Good one Irish.

OP, even if what you were saying was true and you have found some authentic TKD that was actually trained realistically, that doesn’t change the fact that the vast, vast majority of TKD being taught today was about as useful for actual combat or self defense as the majority of Tai Chi taught today; and it’s based on that majority of TKD being taught today that most people form their opinions based on. So no, most people’s opinions of most TKD are accurate, just like most people’s opinion of most Ninjutsu taught today is accurate, even though there is legitimate Ninjutsu out there.

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[quote]shadowbobo8028 wrote:

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:
Doing any high kicks you run a risk of getting countered hard in many many ways, especially if someone knows you do TKD from the beginning[/quote]
Body kicks are super effective. I personally see low kicks as useless[/quote]

I am pretty new to martial arts but I guarantee you if I caught you in the thigh with a round kick it would change your mind about leg kicks’ effectiveness. There are plenty if guys out there who can throw them faster, harder and more effectively than I can too. It really sounds like you just haven’t fought anyone who was very good.

Also, Where the hell do you get a black belt in Muay Thai?

19

[quote]Loftearmen wrote:

[quote]shadowbobo8028 wrote:

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:
Doing any high kicks you run a risk of getting countered hard in many many ways, especially if someone knows you do TKD from the beginning[/quote]
Body kicks are super effective. I personally see low kicks as useless[/quote]

I am pretty new to martial arts but I guarantee you if I caught you in the thigh with a round kick it would change your mind about leg kicks’ effectiveness. There are plenty if guys out there who can throw them faster, harder and more effectively than I can too. It really sounds like you just haven’t fought anyone who was very good.

Also, Where the hell do you get a black belt in Muay Thai?[/quote]

You don’t; Muay Thai doesn’t have a colored belt system.

I’m pretty sure that anyone here is any kind of experience would change the OP’s mind (Pidgeon, Myself, Big Boss, You, Robert, any of us). Also, it’s not just about how hard you can throw them, but also your accuracy in throwing them (hit the right spot and you’ll feel it even if the kick isn’t that hard), especially if you haven’t spent years deadening the nerves in your leg from conditioning them.

It’s pretty obvious the OP was just trolling, or incredibly naive.

20

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]Loftearmen wrote:

[quote]shadowbobo8028 wrote:

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:
Doing any high kicks you run a risk of getting countered hard in many many ways, especially if someone knows you do TKD from the beginning[/quote]
Body kicks are super effective. I personally see low kicks as useless[/quote]

I am pretty new to martial arts but I guarantee you if I caught you in the thigh with a round kick it would change your mind about leg kicks’ effectiveness. There are plenty if guys out there who can throw them faster, harder and more effectively than I can too. It really sounds like you just haven’t fought anyone who was very good.

Also, Where the hell do you get a black belt in Muay Thai?[/quote]

You don’t; Muay Thai doesn’t have a colored belt system.

I’m pretty sure that anyone here is any kind of experience would change the OP’s mind (Pidgeon, Myself, Big Boss, You, Robert, any of us). Also, it’s not just about how hard you can throw them, but also your accuracy in throwing them (hit the right spot and you’ll feel it even if the kick isn’t that hard), especially if you haven’t spent years deadening the nerves in your leg from conditioning them.

It’s pretty obvious the OP was just trolling, or incredibly naive.
[/quote]
I AM incredibly naive. This is the one and only Muay Thai fighter I ever fought and I won with flying colors so I lost a little bit of respect for it (though I prob shouldn’t have)
I fought the Muay Thai fighter and he kicked me in the legs so many times. I was just like “Wtf…” cause none of them hurt and they ended up being distractions from his main attack: face punches. I soon figured that out and that’s how I countered and beat him. Hell I even managed to land a HIGH kick (hence his black eye).

Btw the kid did MMA if that makes more sense. His friends told me he was a black belt. He does Muay Thai, boxing (or so it seems), and jujitsu.

Also you guy realize that taekwondo cannot be effectively done by weak people out of shape right? TKD is a very “hard” art (as opposed to soft art) and is 90% power driven. A REAL TKD practitioner should not be out of shape with poor cardio & lack of strength. Years of TKD + squats helped build my legs so none of his low kicks hurt