T-Nation Newbie Guide

Bigger Stronger Leaner Beginners
1

Im posting this in hopes this will be stickied, but this will hopefully get the damn point across to people who are reading T-Nation, and are considering making an account.

  1. DO NOT POST WORKOUT ROUTINES! Please people. Workout routines, much like diet, are individual, NO ONE can tell you if a workout routine is good or not, not even you! The ONLY way of finding out is to try it (for a while, like say, a minimum of 8 weeks) and note progress. Thats it! Make changes accordingly.

There’s already stickies to good links on nutrition and training, so I won’t rehash. And if you ever need a good solid program because you just dont know what to do…starting strength.

2)If your injured and mobility is significantly hampered, DON"T workout! DON’T ask if you should, or what exercises you can do. Now, if simply a “particular” exercise bothers you, but others don’t, then simply dont do the troublesome exercise and through trial and error, figure out which exercises do work.

3)Dont ask, “whats the best rep range or diet or exercise program or whatever” is better for mass gain, or fat loss. TRIAL AND ERROR PEOPLE!

  1. NO MORE TBT vs Splits posts. Both work. Pick one. Whats MOST important is that you make progress, and that you enjoy what you are doing. After all, if you dont like it, you won’t do it.

  2. NO MORE cut or bulk posts! PLEASE! Look, if your goal is being a huge ass MF, then if you have a little flab, thats ok. DON"T diet down. Accept some fat gain as a sign of eating enough. If your goal is ripped abz, be my guest, but what the hell are you doing here? Likewise, if your a whale and simply can’t let go of your doritos and still want to look “bad ass muscular”, then diet down first!

If I think of anything else, or if someone had anything else to say, be my guest.

Now, this doesnt mean to say that people should be afraid of asking things. General knowledge questions, or opinions about something that you have NO CLUE about are ok (for example, what do some people think about using straps for deadlifts? The question wasn’t “should i use straps”, but “what are some people’s input on them?”)

I hope this can reduce (at the very least) some of these non-sense posts! And perhaps people will LEARN how to use their BODIES as a gauge, instead of people who they’ve never met!

2

I now realized I used the word “simply” alot! Well, when you ramble, you do tend to make alot of mistakes. But this isn’t english class, so who gives a flying fuck!

3

I LOLed.

Good luck with this, Champ.

4

.

5

Your quite right Split, this thread might be a fail. I had a feeling that it might. But Im hoping it wont. I hate seeing pointless posts! But uh, this kinda shows that you dont care what goes on around here.

You’re lucky your avatar is hot :wink:

6

Forbes, bro, most your points reduce the solution to most newbie’s questions to “Trial and error! Grrr!! Just stfu and do it!!!” While that’s an “interestingly”-hardcore answer, it just doesn’t work that way.

If I walk up to a math teacher and say “I don’t understand this problem.” Is it really helpful for the teacher to say “Psssh, kid, just press the buttons on the calculator. You’ll get the right answer eventually.”

Nope. Doesn’t help much. At all. And it would probably drag out my experience, making it a bad one, and turn me off to math for quite a long time afterwards.

[quote]forbes wrote:
Now, this doesnt mean to say that people should be afraid of asking things.[/quote]
That’s totally not the vibe I got off of your rant.

If I took my first step into a gym a few days ago, I would absolutely want to ask people who’ve been there before and done what I want to do, instead of fumbling around on my own, hoping to trip over the right way to do things.

If you’re frustrated over the newbie questions, you’re certainly welcome to avoid the Beginners forum altogether, just like many people avoid the Rate My Physique forum.

I do the majority of my posting in here because I’m trying to be inclusive and clue the next batch of lifters in to the “right” way. I could just as easily be exclusive and lock myself in T-Cell Alpha and chew the fat (probably literally) with the experienced dudes in there

I think it’s much more important to lead the newbies training horses right up to the water, put one end of a neat little bendy straw into it and say “Here, bud. Have a drink on me.” Instead of tossing my hands up in the air and say “Water? Fuck, man, I think it’s, like, over there that-a-way. Keep headin’ Northeast. You’ll find it… probably.”

(Was that analogy a bit much? Oh well.)

7

Just wanted to add that a lot of guys who’ve been training with dedication for a while really like the “Merry Christmas, Bob” article.

But the one section of that whole thing that’s completely applicable to this topic, and maybe some guys gloss right over it, is this one:

Want to lose that beer belly, Bob? I have a nutty idea. Put down the fucking beer. I’ll tell you what, Bob. Christmas morning I’m getting up real early and hitting the iron. I want to watch my daughter open her presents and spend the whole day with her, so this is the only time I have to train. The gym will be closed, so I’m going out in my garage to workout. You be at my house at six in the morning, okay? I’ll be glad to help you get started on a weight training program. It’ll be colder than Hillary Clinton’s coochie in there, so dress warm.

He doesn’t say “Bob, you really need to get into the gym. Just get in there and start lifting.” He says “Monday, Christmas morning, 6am, my house. The ball’s in your court.”

If someone found their way to www.T-Nation.com, signed on, created an account, and started a thread asking for advice, I’m sure as shit going to welcome it and give them advice. Telling a brand new lifter to rely on “trial and error” is a cop-out. They need some kind of direction.

8

Granted, but if someone gives a workout routine thats not “irrational” and they’re asking you if its good, how can you possiby give them an accurate answer? It will still come down to going into the gym and giving the workout a try for a while.

Perhaps I did seem too aggressive, but I stand by what my initial point was. True, a beginner may need more direction, but alot of them want spoon feeding.

You have to admit alot of things are about figuring things out in the gym. If someone asks “whats the best rep range for squats to promote growth”, you might say “10 reps”, another “naww, 3-5 is where its at”. However, for the individual, they may feel better with 20. No one can tell them that except for themselves.

Same goes with TBT vs Splits. I hate those arguments. The training system that allows you to increase the fastest in weight is the one a person should be using, whether it be TBT or some sort of split routine. And these things can only be figured out through actually doing something.

When I first came on here, my first post was a question on whether I should bulk or cut. I argued with individuals who were more experienced than me (though I didn’t know it at that time). But I realized many things. First, my fear of bulking was irrational because I was focused on abs. But what I learned first and foremost was to figure things out on my own. And I’m glad for that.

When you learn things on your own, you gain knowledge about yourself that no one else knows. And if the time comes that you have to make adjustments for something, you won’t have to depend on others for “advice”. You’ll know what to do then and there.

9

Oh and, your analogy above using math, though is correct, can’t be compared to weightlifting because they are different. Math problems always have a solution “technically” a “simple” answer. I did not say easy. But the human body is more complex than any math formula.

A student might not know how to solve a problem whether it be not knowing an equation, or on how to do preliminary calculations.

But if someone says, for example, My delts just won’t grow. I eat 5000 calories a day and have gained 20 pounds in 3 months. My workout routine consists of 3x10 of the following:

-overhead press
-upright rows
-lateral raises
-rear delt raises.

Well sir, your probably eating enough, and your routine looks balanced. How the fuck am I supposed to know whats holding his delts back? I can’t give advice on this! This is where the dude might have to use…wait for it…trial and error to find out whats wrong. Too much volume? Too little volume? Don’t know. Only he can find out.

10

[quote]forbes wrote:
But if someone says, for example, My delts just won’t grow. I eat 5000 calories a day and have gained 20 pounds in 3 months. My workout routine consists of 3x10 of the following:

-overhead press
-upright rows
-lateral raises
-rear delt raises.

Well sir, your probably eating enough, and your routine looks balanced. How the fuck am I supposed to know whats holding his delts back? I can’t give advice on this! This is where the dude might have to use…wait for it…trial and error to find out whats wrong. Too much volume? Too little volume? Don’t know. Only he can find out.[/quote]

Yeah, I get puzzled too every time I see that question.

Which occurs… well, come to think of it… shoot, when HAS that occurred?

11

[quote]Otep wrote:
forbes wrote:
But if someone says, for example, My delts just won’t grow. I eat 5000 calories a day and have gained 20 pounds in 3 months. My workout routine consists of 3x10 of the following:

-overhead press
-upright rows
-lateral raises
-rear delt raises.

Well sir, your probably eating enough, and your routine looks balanced. How the fuck am I supposed to know whats holding his delts back? I can’t give advice on this! This is where the dude might have to use…wait for it…trial and error to find out whats wrong. Too much volume? Too little volume? Don’t know. Only he can find out.

Yeah, I get puzzled too every time I see that question.

Which occurs… well, come to think of it… shoot, when HAS that occurred?[/quote]

Ha.

12

OP
You know the T-Nation forums would be pretty cool if it wasn’t for the posters.

Find something else to bitch about if you must.

How about members who do not complete the profile form. With a little trial and error I bet you can get it filled out.

13

[quote]Its All U wrote:
OP
You know the T-Nation forums would be pretty cool if it wasn’t for the posters.

Find something else to bitch about if you must.

How about members who do not complete the profile form. With a little trial and error I bet you can get it filled out.

[/quote]

Well sooooooooooooooooooory that I gave an opinion and tried to fuckin help the problem. This thread wasn’t even intended for people to post in. Mostly to get a mother fuckin point across.

At least chris had the decency to state his opinion with respect and had points to back himself up. But, you fucking genius you, all you have to say are mocking words from my original post.

And what does it matter if I post my number? I bet all I would get is “pffff, your numbers are lies” and shit like that.

Perhaps I’ll bitch about people like you.

14

[quote]forbes wrote:
Its All U wrote some stuff,

Perhaps I’ll bitch about people like you.[/quote]

You’ll probably have more success in the Get A Life forum.

15

Its makes me just chuckel to see people spend entirely too much time on the internet and on this site… I get the strange feeling that it would have made forbes feel important if this were stickied.

16

[quote]forbes wrote:
Granted, but if someone gives a workout routine thats not “irrational” and they’re asking you if its good, how can you possiby give them an accurate answer? It will still come down to going into the gym and giving the workout a try for a while.[/quote]

For a beginner who’s starting at zero, they need some kind of direction. Whether it’s “yep, go do that routine you saw in the magazine for now, but check back in a few months.” or “That’s a crappy program, here’s a better choice.” When I can, I try to throw in a “and here’s why”, to cover that whole “teach a guy to fish” angle.

As they say, everything works… for a while. I think you’ll find there are many guys who’ve been lifting for many years, and are still trying to figure out what’s best. For example, Jim Wendler has been lifting and competing for decades, and only recently designed the 5/3/1 template that he, and many others, are excelling at.

So do I, but from what I see, they happen more in the Bodybuilding forum rather than in Beginners.

You mean this thread:
http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding/age_old_question?id=2215139
The one you started just about six months ago where you, as a beginner, asked A - if you should bulk or cut , B - whether you should train full body or with a bodypart split, C - posted your proposed training routine and D - asked several members to give you a better exercise program?

That thread where you received tons of helpful advice, with no flaming, from a number of experienced members (including Christian Thibaudeau who very rarely posts outside of his Locker room). That was the thread you started? Yeah, guess we really should put an end to those from now on. :wink:

Dude, you shot yourself in the foot with this thread and seem to have forgotten where you came from. It’s great if you want to be a guy who helps guys out when you can, but to be honest, you have no right whatsoever to call a moratorium on newbie threads. As I said earlier, if they bug you, hang out in the Bodybuilding forum.

17

Just for squirts and giggles…

[quote]forbes wrote:
if someone says, for example, My delts just won’t grow. I eat 5000 calories a day and have gained 20 pounds in 3 months. My workout routine consists of 3x10 of the following:

-overhead press
-upright rows
-lateral raises
-rear delt raises.

Well sir, your probably eating enough, and your routine looks balanced.[/quote]

The imaginary guy didn’t post a “routine”, he posted a workout. I’d want to know what the rest of his training week looks like. Chest, back, arms, legs, all that. Looking at the big picture matters more than focusing on what you “think” the problem is.

Also, gaining 20 pounds in three months says there’s a chance a good majority of it is fat. That’s another point that would be raised.

Then don’t. I can, and I will.

Bull. I, and others who give advice, dip into our training experience (and in my case, experience I have in working with clients for several years), and provide options that the dude can consider on his own, and then he can decide which direction to go from here.

18

Look, Chris, I know where I came from and I know the questions I asked. My point being that asking those questions never gave me “direct” help, but rather “indirect” help. Let me explain:

I was given numerous advice, but I never took them directly. Some people said go on a low fat, high carb diet. Many gave direct advice on training, which confused me alot, because my hypothetical split routine apparently wasn’t good enough, even though splits are passed around as “the golden way of working out”.

What I did find help in was getting swamped with “stop being a pussy and eat” and “lift heavy shit for a while and forget about those hawt abz”. That changed my way of thinking and caused to me reassess what Im doing. It forced me to try everything out and eliminate what didn’t work. Thats what I learned.

And all Im saying is for beginner’s to do that same. Did I come off as a bit harsh with my original post? Perhaps. And now reading it, I did go a bit far. But my point stands. Some guidance is necessary, to get push these newbs close to the edge. But many of them want people to hold there hands along the way, something that annoyed me in the first place.

19

[quote]forbes wrote:
Look, Chris, I know where I came from and I know the questions I asked.[/quote]

And you still had the cajones to start this thread saying that we shouldn’t allow people to ask those exact questions anymore.

I do appreciate you recognizing that.

That’s a popular line of thinking around here. Not necessarily one I exactly agree with, but plenty of people do, and that advice works for people whose goals lie along that path.

I’m genuinely glad you learned whatever you needed to, and I’m happy it kicked you in the right direction. Though, right about here is where someone from your original thread would pop in and ask how much you’ve gained these last six months… but that’s the topic of another thread. :wink:

You need to understand that not all people have your goals or need the same motivation as you. Just shouting “I learned this way, and from now on, everyone else should learn this way too!” isn’t very productive, accurate, or helpful.

Different people look to teachers for different reasons. Motivation, inspiration, direct lessons, checking and re-checking, positive feedback, constructive criticism, whatever. And different teachers get results by using lots of different teaching methods, because some students respond better to one method over another.

The Beginners forum of T-Nation.com is particular because it’s here specifically for newbs, but it’s still dedicated to “the intelligent and relentless pursuit of muscle.” Anyone coming here expecting to be spoon-fed and hand-held through the training experience is quickly corrected (hopefully with some useful advice thrown in as well).

So, yeah, more often than not, a catch-all answer to new guys is “Lift a lot and eat even more.” But that doesn’t mean it’s actually the best answer for every beginner.

20

True.

Ok, I’ll make a comprimise:

Posts like those I mentioned above should be banned from the bodybuilding forum, and left for the beginner’s forum here.

Sound better?

Oh and, it’s because I’ve gained nicely that I felt bold in the first place to create this post. I’ve gained 18 pounds since my arrival here (But don’t ask for before or after pics, because I don’t even own a digital camera…when I get one, I’ll post some)