[quote]Affliction wrote:
doubleh wrote:
Affliction wrote:
I think the Olympic lifts are a very effective exercise, but with a high cost to the organism. I think all manner of jumps and throws with various implements and resistances can compete with the Olympic lifts for identical training effect but with much less risk and energy reserve cost.
If A+B=F, and F is the desired training effect, why would you choose A+B+C+D+E=F, especially for an athlete whose training requirements entail far more than just lifting.
In my experience, athletes struggle to learn proper form on the lifts, some will forever be constrained by form. The Oly’s are themselves a sport, with realization of elite technique sometimes taking ten years. An athlete’s nervous system can only perfect so many complex movement patterns, the whole of which should be devoted to their sport.
An athlete will always be able to throw a medicine ball or jump on a box without much technique coaching. You can also tell an athlete to throw a ball or jump at sub-maximal effort, this is harder to do with Oly’s because they still have to move the bar fast regardless of weight.
Furthermore, there is much stressing of the shoulder girdle during the catch portion of the lift and most athletes tend to have poor scapulo-thoracic mobility and strength as it is. Keeping your athletes healthy should be high on your priority list as a strength coach.
Yes, I am a former DI football athlete and I played the latter half of my career at the I-AA level. I have hang-cleaned 335 lbs. before. I didn’t lose my explosiveness when I moved away from them as an exercise. In fact, it took a lot more effort on my part to just add 5 lbs. to my clean than it did to add a couple inches on my box jump or other similar exercise. Just my personal opinion. Again, many roads to Rome my friend.[/quote]
Interesting take. My first thought re: “I didn’t lose my explosiveness when I moved away from them as an exercise.” - that may be true, but perhaps you are discounting what GAVE you some of that explosiveness in the first place. Plyos and med ball throws and box jumps, etc, all have a place in a football player’s tool box, no question. However, I disagree with the idea that these methods can duplicate and even exceed the effectiveness of a power clean for training overall explosiveness.
There are several reasons, but the most obvious: box jumps, med throws, virtually any plyometric-type exercise works explosiveness in only one movement pattern. When I do box jumps, or drop-box jumps, I am only working lower body explosiveness in a vertical plane. Contrast this with a full power clean. It is almost a full-body exercise. Clearly there is carry-over from plyos to athletic performance on the field, but since everything done on the football field is obviously full-body by its nature, doesn’t it stand to reason that an exercise incorporating full-body explosiveness will get you where you want to be more effectively?
I do not totally disagree with your take on form, but I sort of do regarding injuries. The two go hand-in-hand to some extent. In my experience (and my football background is somewhat similar to yours), I’ve never seen a player get injured performing a clean, even with what many would consider poor form. And keep in mind football players aren’t competitive Oly lifters - “elite” technique is NOT a requirement to reap the benefits of the exercise.
Basically, I guess we just have a difference of opinion here. I was just surprised, considering your background. I don’t think I’d ever run across a player that disliked cleaning based on the exercise being sub-optimal. Disliking it b/c they disliked cleaning, yes, but not b/c said cleaning wasn’t effective.