Poliquin mentioned yesterday in his “Question of Strength” article that his favorite exercise is the power snatch.
What are your thoughts on hang cleans versus a snatch, in terms of an Olympic lift that correlates to high sports performance? I don’t use the Power Snatch, only performing the Hang Clean.
[quote]ghost87 wrote:
Poliquin mentioned yesterday in his “Question of Strength” article that his favorite exercise is the power snatch.
What are your thoughts on hang cleans versus a snatch, in terms of an Olympic lift that correlates to high sports performance? I don’t use the Power Snatch, only performing the Hang Clean. [/quote]
This = Bodybuilding Forum.
While some here may indeed use these lifts, bodybuilding is not about sports performance and you’d stand a better chance of having someone with real experience at this answer you if you were to post this question in Strength Sports.
Depends on what you mean by “sports performance”.
With something like top speed sprinting, the velocities we are talking about are so much greater than anything we can achieve in the weight room that it’s ridiculous to act as if one particular lift is way more “sport specific” than another lift because it’s slightly faster.
If we are talking about something like a standing vert on the other hand, you could possibly argue that the PS is superior due to the faster speed. Even then, I doubt it makes much difference at all.
really depends what kinda performance your looking for and what sport. sprinting, throwing, maybe… combat sports? not really… golf…no.
There is a video going round of Mac Wilkins (former WR holder and last US to win OG discus -76) doing a coaching seminar in England where he makes a statement along the lines of you must power snatch and then quizs everyone in the room as to why they don’t. ONly excuse he grudingly accepted was a guy who power cleaned.
Most top throwers quote power snatch and clean. Only top thrower that I know of who is not a big devotee of the power snatch is A G Kruger, who is big on power cleans.
I think the only guy to throw the 16lber 70 foot as a junior Ron Smecki@# (cannot remember spell, sorry) blew his shoulder on a miss at around 170kgs (374) when he was in early 20s.
I think power snatches improve your power clean and vice versa.
As Charles said power snatches can be done with varying grips including shoulder width and narrow (hands a few inches apart) and they are pulled with arms inside legs.
Guess they give more bang than power cleans by great back involvement.
interesting point, snatch pulls improve my power clean a lot more than just power cleaning. i can believe that it’s probably more effective than the power clean for sports performance. I’m sure it helps you measure a lot of sports attributes, but sport performance? I dunno if I’m sold on that. But what do i know… He definitely knows more than me.
Personally though i’m quit a bit more intrigued by 1 arm snatches
Jason Young 1 arm snatching 198lbs
I think the power snatch is great for explosive sports. The ROM in a snatch for hips and glutes area (which is where most of the power is generated in sports played on ground) exagerated way more than a hang clean.
It does take some practice but it has a carry over affect to squats, cleans, and even DLs.
It all goes back to having to move weight out of a whole, so to speak.
Also I would have to disagree with this = bodybuilding forum. Especially since the name of this thread is stregth sports.
When are some of these people going to realize that many of the people here are not bodybuilders. I think we realize that for the most part there is no athletic carry over from bodybuilding.
I like the power snatch a lot more than the hang clean or power clean. Of course as someone above said it depends on what kind of performance you’re looking for.
The snatch works a greater acceleration, and has the handy attribute of also working the lower traps and the shoulder girdle in a way that hang cleans cannot (due to the final pull, squat under, and final position).
[quote]JGerman wrote:
Also I would have to disagree with this = bodybuilding forum. Especially since the name of this thread is stregth sports.
When are some of these people going to realize that many of the people here are not bodybuilders. I think we realize that for the most part there is no athletic carry over from bodybuilding.
[/quote]
I think this thread was started in the BB forum and one of the mods moved it here to the correct one.
[quote]Regular Gonzalez wrote:
With something like top speed sprinting, the velocities we are talking about are so much greater than anything we can achieve in the weight room that it’s ridiculous to act as if one particular lift is way more “sport specific” than another lift because it’s slightly faster.
[/quote]
I disagree here, which lift would you suggest that recruits more fast twitch muscle fibers? After all this is the primary goal of this lift, to develop the fast twitch muscle fibers which have the greatest impact on athletic performance does it not? Sprinting incorporates a myriad of muscle fibers as does a snatch. Speed bench, jump squats, and the like are good but do not address the entire body.
I think that the power snatch and snatch pulls do very little with regard to the other lifts (clean, squat, dl) Perhaps for a newb it will help increase their clean but the weights used in the clean are far greater than the snatch so I feel the load would be insufficient IMO.
From my own personal experience I have had great results with power snatches. Whenever my power snatches increased usually my throws (shot and disc) followed suit.
But how about a comparison with the box clean vs power snatch? The box clean requires alot of power because of the static start.
did u just call me a newb ? :0P
[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
did u just call me a newb ? :0P[/quote]
If the shoe fits? haha kidding, no. But thats my opinon and from experience atleast everyone is different!!!
lol you are right though as far as olifting i pretty much am a newb compared to anyone who has a coach lol
There is a small book around called Long Term Preparation of Throwers by Dr. Anatolie Bondarchuck (won 72 hammer, bronze 76 coached Sedkyh from a very early age - wr holder 2 OG golds 3 Euros and was in charge of the Russian throwing proram during its peak - now in semi retirement coaches Dylan Armstrong 4th in OG shot 2008 -and he was robbed of 3rd by mismeasure)
The book lists 115 (non throwing) exercises
including 12 snatch (three of them close grip) variants and 9 clean variants. They all work at some time and some will work some people at different times more than others.
The power snatch may be the great predictor of athletic ability but there is many ways to get there.
Wow i’d give both of MUthrows94’s nuts to get my hands on that book.
Regarding the relationship between power snatches and power cleans (Talking power derivitives only ) there is a piece around on the internet how Jud Logan (former US hammer throw champ, in his early days moved his power clean when it plateaued.
Did power snatches with about a 2/3rd width grip. Power clean jumped after the period.
He is another who has used Charles P.for advice.
Regarding Dr B.s book the people who publish lament that when they do a display they have given up trying to sell it as it uses the classic 70’s soviet stick diagrams to illustrate rather than big glossy photos.
Are people that superficial ?? sure are.
From Kelly Baggett:
"A friend of mine did a thesis on VJ and did a bunch of high tech analysis on recruitment patterns, joint kinematics etc. among different exercises. In terms of muscle activation and recruitment patterns a proper hang power snatch is nearly an exact replica of a standing vertical jump…Moreso then even barbell jump squats or depth jumps.
It’s basically just an easy way to monitor and assess hip power. "
A weighted version of a vertical jump where you can easily adjust the load and measure progress seems like a good deal to me.
[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
Wow i’d give both of MUthrows94’s nuts to get my hands on that book.[/quote]
HAHA ouch…the Russians were ahead of their time with the Olympic lifts and implementing them with their athletes. Same could be said with the eastern Europeans (look up videos of Ricky Bruch FREAKKKKKKK).
It’s interesting that the point about the vertical jump and power snatch (from the hang) are closely related. It makes a ton of sense though since the premise of a power clean or snatch is essentially jumping with the bar as high as possible to get a full extension on the pull. I have always noticed an increase in my vert whenever any of my OL lifts have improved…
[quote]dfreezy wrote:
JGerman wrote:
Also I would have to disagree with this = bodybuilding forum. Especially since the name of this thread is stregth sports.
When are some of these people going to realize that many of the people here are not bodybuilders. I think we realize that for the most part there is no athletic carry over from bodybuilding.
I think this thread was started in the BB forum and one of the mods moved it here to the correct one.[/quote]
Indeed, I made my comment when the thread was in the other forum so that the OP wouldn’t end up with zero responses.
Hang cleans vs Power Snatch is no comparison. While they are both great exercises, I think the Power Snatch has it beat hands down. I say this because with the PS, you are lifting it from the ground. So your ROM is greater, being that your hips have to dip lower at the start of the movement. There is more power potential when the hips are lower, and more power = higher jump.
The Hang Clean is great for hip explosion and has its place in a well designed workout program. Get the best of both worlds and rotate between the two.