What height should athletes squat, I am a fast bowler, similar to a javelin thrower. Right now I have been using low boxes, about an inch or two below parallel. I find at the bottom, I really struggle and is my limiting factor, once out of the hole, the rest is very easy, I could make the bar jump off my back. I know some will say use a higher box sometimes, but then you reduce your range of motion and potential strength curve. But I was thinking isn’t the best way to use chains. Then its hard along the entire strength curve, and teaches compensatory acceleration.
I never heard that before, why is that so? I know guys like Louie and Dave say 70% of ME should be good mornings, but don’t guys like Defranco use ME box squats all the time. Does it matter that the later are powerlifters and the former are atheltes, does that really matter.
In my experience, box squats as ME work did nothing for me in terms of explosiveness or carryover to my sprint or my vertical. All it did was that they made me good at box squatting. Normal squats did the job much better for me.
[quote]niksamaras wrote:
In my experience, box squats as ME work did nothing for me in terms of explosiveness or carryover to my sprint or my vertical. All it did was that they made me good at box squatting. Normal squats did the job much better for me.[/quote]
This is terrible advice. Box squats should most certainly be used for ME work. The only reasons you wouldn’t get anything out of them is because you use the same box height for too long (that was probably too high) and your form is terrible (getting too loose on the box, not sitting back far enough, not chainging foot positions, not driving knees out, etc.) If all of those things were in check, then I have no idea what to say. I have personally seen box squats make hundreds of athletes stronger, faster, and able to showcase such things on the field.
Anyway, to answer the OP, the answer is every height. Change it often. As often as you like. I would suggest not sticking with a height for longer than 2 weeks. I’m not saying have a million different heights you use but try to have 3:
Above parallel
Below parallel
At Parallel
Foot position used depends on your own personal weaknesses but change that up often as well. Again, just have 3:
Close
Medium (which will probably be your regualr squat stance)
And wide
Try to close the gap between the weight used with whatever height and foot position you are strongest at (it will probably be wide stance and high box) and the one you suck at the most (probably close stance and low box).
[quote]niksamaras wrote:
In my experience, box squats as ME work did nothing for me in terms of explosiveness or carryover to my sprint or my vertical. All it did was that they made me good at box squatting. Normal squats did the job much better for me.[/quote]
This is terrible advice. Box squats should most certainly be used for ME work. The only reasons you wouldn’t get anything out of them is because you use the same box height for too long (that was probably too high) and your form is terrible (getting too loose on the box, not sitting back far enough, not chainging foot positions, not driving knees out, etc.) If all of those things were in check, then I have no idea what to say. I have personally seen box squats make hundreds of athletes stronger, faster, and able to showcase such things on the field.
Anyway, to answer the OP, the answer is every height. Change it often. As often as you like. I would suggest not sticking with a height for longer than 2 weeks. I’m not saying have a million different heights you use but try to have 3:
Above parallel
Below parallel
At Parallel
Foot position used depends on your own personal weaknesses but change that up often as well. Again, just have 3:
Close
Medium (which will probably be your regualr squat stance)
And wide
Try to close the gap between the weight used with whatever height and foot position you are strongest at (it will probably be wide stance and high box) and the one you suck at the most (probably close stance and low box). [/quote]
Been at least two years since I did them as ME work, so I guess my technique could be off. Lister to Storm OP, he knows x50 the stuff I know.
STB, quick question. I tried Close Stance to parallel box and it irritated the sh$t out of my knees. Like patellar tendonitis feel. Any experience with that? Or is my body just being a vagoo?
I think what you said about varying box height is a good idea, what about always going below parrallel and using chains, which will make it harder along the entire strength curve. I always thought that must be the best way, but I think maybe my thinking is thinking is too simple.
[quote]BlueLineCretin wrote:
STB, quick question. I tried Close Stance to parallel box and it irritated the sh$t out of my knees. Like patellar tendonitis feel. Any experience with that? Or is my body just being a vagoo?
Sorry for the hijack.[/quote]
Ha. Vagoo.
Close stance box squatting recruits the quads a whole lot more than wide stance at any height. Get your feet out a little wider, sit back more, and maybe try a little bit higher box. That should help alleviate some of the pain. I am not a doctor though, if it’s really bothering you, get it checked out.
I have had experience with the opposite of what you are going through. I was doing tons of wide stance, raw box squats when I started powerlifting and that tore my hip internal rotators up like crazy. Varying my stance, height, and periodically using a loose suit with the straps down helped tremendously. I havent had pain in my hips in years.
I gotta be honest, box squats have never done much for me either, except make me better at box squatting. That should come with a asterik though as I’ve suffered two pretty gnarley knee injuries and used the box almost exclusively for 2+ years 'cause my knees couldn’t handle traditional squats. Now that I’m back on traditional squats (only about a month) my numbers are almost comically down.
I think the issue here, is you are getting biased opinions from people who have done either or…as in exclusively free squats OR only box squats for an extended period of time. Of course performance will slowly suffer if your training is so one-dimensional. They are a tool designed to be used in conjunction with traditional squats.
Another exercise which will have nice carryover to your vertical is trap bar deadlifts with the high handles. I can’t think of a lift that mimics the jumping motion more.
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
I think the issue here, is you are getting biased opinions from people who have done either or…as in exclusively free squats OR only box squats for an extended period of time. Of course performance will slowly suffer if your training is so one-dimensional. They are a tool designed to be used in conjunction with traditional squats.
Another exercise which will have nice carryover to your vertical is trap bar deadlifts with the high handles. I can’t think of a lift that mimics the jumping motion more. [/quote]
Well, I’ll put my vert against anyone’s on this site and I’ve used the trap bar maybe 5 times ever. I’d say hang cleans mimic jumping way better.
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
I think the issue here, is you are getting biased opinions from people who have done either or…as in exclusively free squats OR only box squats for an extended period of time. Of course performance will slowly suffer if your training is so one-dimensional. They are a tool designed to be used in conjunction with traditional squats.
Another exercise which will have nice carryover to your vertical is trap bar deadlifts with the high handles. I can’t think of a lift that mimics the jumping motion more. [/quote]
Well, I’ll put my vert against anyone’s on this site and I’ve used the trap bar maybe 5 times ever. I’d say hang cleans mimic jumping way better.[/quote]
Whenever I read threads like this I always laugh. There are a million great exercises out there including all these variations of box squat heights and width and trap bar deadlits etc etc etc… But frankly, for anyone (especially someone who I am guessing is a bit of a beginner in the weight room) I think the answer should be simple - squat. While all the others are great moves to be incorporated into training, nothing is better than squating.
Did you ever watch power unlimited? hahaha best line ever
“leave your pssy at home, strap on your cck and bend those knees”
I should note that I am in no way trashing the use of box squats as primary motions like in westside training, but especially for this guy who is asking as an ‘athlete’, he is probably not worried about using hardcore gear, but just needs a solid foundation, so basic motions should be learned first.
[quote]BlueLineCretin wrote:
STB, quick question. I tried Close Stance to parallel box and it irritated the sh$t out of my knees. Like patellar tendonitis feel. Any experience with that? Or is my body just being a vagoo?
Sorry for the hijack.[/quote]
Ha. Vagoo.
Close stance box squatting recruits the quads a whole lot more than wide stance at any height. Get your feet out a little wider, sit back more, and maybe try a little bit higher box. That should help alleviate some of the pain. I am not a doctor though, if it’s really bothering you, get it checked out.
I have had experience with the opposite of what you are going through. I was doing tons of wide stance, raw box squats when I started powerlifting and that tore my hip internal rotators up like crazy. Varying my stance, height, and periodically using a loose suit with the straps down helped tremendously. I havent had pain in my hips in years.[/quote]
I thought this as well, Louie did a study showing no difference between the two
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
I think the issue here, is you are getting biased opinions from people who have done either or…as in exclusively free squats OR only box squats for an extended period of time. Of course performance will slowly suffer if your training is so one-dimensional. They are a tool designed to be used in conjunction with traditional squats.
Another exercise which will have nice carryover to your vertical is trap bar deadlifts with the high handles. I can’t think of a lift that mimics the jumping motion more. [/quote]
Well, I’ll put my vert against anyone’s on this site and I’ve used the trap bar maybe 5 times ever. I’d say hang cleans mimic jumping way better.[/quote]
Hang cleans mimic hang cleans. If you are trying to improve your jumping anything you do that is NOT jumping is just GPP.
[quote]arramzy wrote:
Whenever I read threads like this I always laugh. There are a million great exercises out there including all these variations of box squat heights and width and trap bar deadlits etc etc etc… But frankly, for anyone (especially someone who I am guessing is a bit of a beginner in the weight room) I think the answer should be simple - squat. While all the others are great moves to be incorporated into training, nothing is better than squating.
Did you ever watch power unlimited? hahaha best line ever
“leave your pssy at home, strap on your cck and bend those knees”
I should note that I am in no way trashing the use of box squats as primary motions like in westside training, but especially for this guy who is asking as an ‘athlete’, he is probably not worried about using hardcore gear, but just needs a solid foundation, so basic motions should be learned first.[/quote]
If just squatting made your squat better, why not just go compete every single weekend? Your weights will just go up forever until you have the world record.
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
I think the issue here, is you are getting biased opinions from people who have done either or…as in exclusively free squats OR only box squats for an extended period of time. Of course performance will slowly suffer if your training is so one-dimensional. They are a tool designed to be used in conjunction with traditional squats.
Another exercise which will have nice carryover to your vertical is trap bar deadlifts with the high handles. I can’t think of a lift that mimics the jumping motion more. [/quote]
Well, I’ll put my vert against anyone’s on this site and I’ve used the trap bar maybe 5 times ever. I’d say hang cleans mimic jumping way better.[/quote]
Hang cleans mimic hang cleans. If you are trying to improve your jumping anything you do that is NOT jumping is just GPP.[/quote]
But aren’t hand cleans and power cleans and power snatches snatches generally, a kind of jump?
Just asking, I am trying to understand fully what you are saying.
