[quote]NateOrade wrote:
Ha, I like how the guy on the right is pretty much pointing the gun at his friends crotch.[/quote]
[quote]Mr. Strong wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Mr. Strong wrote:
If you eat over maintenance calories you will put on weight, simple. If you train you might just put on some actual lean body mass, if you are not putting on lean body mass then you must be putting on fat, a little fat is okay, but if you use the excuse that I’m “bulking” thats why I can’t see my toes then you’ve “bulked” a little too much.
The whole bulk then cut, then bulk then cut, is like walking 2 steps forward and 1 step back, regardless how you rationalise this process.
Maintaining a realistic BF% and gradually increasing calories as your weight (LBM) increases is a much more effective and efficient, and healthier process, always walking forward and never taking steps backwards.
You pick.
Thank you, Mr. General Fitness. I am sure most here are discussing bodybuilding.
If your goals are average, then your advice is great.
I understand your first point, but I think the second was a bit unnecessary.[/quote]
…but was it untrue?
I love how everyone giving out the “stay really lean” spiel is tiny themselves and isnt spouting it because it works but rather because they figure if they keep telling themselves (and others) it works well then maybe it will.
sorry, it wont.
[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
rainjack wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
in that case. go get finished with puberty first, maybe when your nuts drop you can have a valid opinion.
You know, for being a dipshit, punk-ass kid - you are starting to grow on me.
I am particularly impressed with what you have had to say in this thread.
aaaawwwwww ;)[/quote]
RJ jr. That’s cute.
And um…I’m done spending time on these topics for now. Beating a dead horse doesn’t come close to describing how futile this is.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Mr. Strong wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Mr. Strong wrote:
If you eat over maintenance calories you will put on weight, simple. If you train you might just put on some actual lean body mass, if you are not putting on lean body mass then you must be putting on fat, a little fat is okay, but if you use the excuse that I’m “bulking” thats why I can’t see my toes then you’ve “bulked” a little too much.
The whole bulk then cut, then bulk then cut, is like walking 2 steps forward and 1 step back, regardless how you rationalise this process.
Maintaining a realistic BF% and gradually increasing calories as your weight (LBM) increases is a much more effective and efficient, and healthier process, always walking forward and never taking steps backwards.
You pick.
Thank you, Mr. General Fitness. I am sure most here are discussing bodybuilding.
If your goals are average, then your advice is great.
I understand your first point, but I think the second was a bit unnecessary.
…but was it untrue?[/quote]
Yes, as that would imply that you have discussed my goals with me, and have therefore categorized them as average, but you haven’t and therefore cannot make that conclusion.
You are making an assumption based on your own insecurities about your own training, why else would you mention average goals, when I did not bring it up?
Please tell me what is wrong with maintaining a realistic BF%, and gradually increasing calorie intake as your LBM increases?
[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
I love how everyone giving out the “stay really lean” spiel is tiny themselves and isnt spouting it because it works but rather because they figure if they keep telling themselves (and others) it works well then maybe it will.
sorry, it wont. [/quote]
I don’t understand your post, where did I say stay really lean?
Why are you so fascinated about the size of the person making a comment, do they have to be 300lbs for their opinion to matter?
When you are at school or college, do you listen to your sport and exercise teachers, or do you tell them what is right because you are bigger than them?
Would you take advice from a bodybuilder such as Frank Zane, even though he was never very heavy?
[quote]Mr. Strong wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Mr. Strong wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Mr. Strong wrote:
If you eat over maintenance calories you will put on weight, simple. If you train you might just put on some actual lean body mass, if you are not putting on lean body mass then you must be putting on fat, a little fat is okay, but if you use the excuse that I’m “bulking” thats why I can’t see my toes then you’ve “bulked” a little too much.
The whole bulk then cut, then bulk then cut, is like walking 2 steps forward and 1 step back, regardless how you rationalise this process.
Maintaining a realistic BF% and gradually increasing calories as your weight (LBM) increases is a much more effective and efficient, and healthier process, always walking forward and never taking steps backwards.
You pick.
Thank you, Mr. General Fitness. I am sure most here are discussing bodybuilding.
If your goals are average, then your advice is great.
I understand your first point, but I think the second was a bit unnecessary.
…but was it untrue?
Yes, as that would imply that you have discussed my goals with me, and have therefore categorized them as average, but you haven’t and therefore cannot make that conclusion.
You are making an assumption based on your own insecurities about your own training, why else would you mention average goals, when I did not bring it up?
Please tell me what is wrong with maintaining a realistic BF%, and gradually increasing calorie intake as your LBM increases?[/quote]
You didn’t answer the question. Was it true? What are your goals? Since you claim I am wrong, then obviously your goals are above average with regards to the goals of the average person who lifts regularly.
What are your goals?
I am making assumptions based on what I have seen and most of the people who really grow enough muscle to impress others can NOT approach things that way, especially as a beginner.
This is bodybuilding. Your results matter, not how much you can talk about what you would LIKE to see.
I did answer your question, your comment was untrue. You originally did not ask for specifics. How about you answer my question which you avoided.
Please explain what is wrong with the approach I mentioned?
Could you outline the goals of the average person, and how you went about collecting the data used to support your conclusions? As you seem to know more than me on the subject of other people goals.
[quote]Mr. Strong wrote:
I did answer your question, your comment was untrue. You originally did not ask for specifics. How about you answer my question which you avoided.
Please explain what is wrong with the approach I mentioned?
Could you outline the goals of the average person, and how you went about collecting the data used to support your conclusions? As you seem to know more than me on the subject of other people goals.[/quote]
I just told you what was wrong with it. Very few people will ever reach a level of muscularity considered “extreme” in any way by following the approach you recommended.
One can only guess that you are avoiding answering what your goals are because you know you fall into that category of those with average gains and average goals.
If you don’t, I am sure your current stats or even a picture could clear that right up and then we could move on.
People who jump up to exclaim what you did are rarely the guys with 20" arms.
Please, prove me wrong.
What are your stats and goals?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Mr. Strong wrote:
If you eat over maintenance calories you will put on weight, simple. If you train you might just put on some actual lean body mass, if you are not putting on lean body mass then you must be putting on fat, a little fat is okay, but if you use the excuse that I’m “bulking” thats why I can’t see my toes then you’ve “bulked” a little too much.
The whole bulk then cut, then bulk then cut, is like walking 2 steps forward and 1 step back, regardless how you rationalise this process.
Maintaining a realistic BF% and gradually increasing calories as your weight (LBM) increases is a much more effective and efficient, and healthier process, always walking forward and never taking steps backwards.
You pick.
Thank you, Mr. General Fitness. I am sure most here are discussing bodybuilding.
If your goals are average, then your advice is great.
[/quote]
Best quote ever.
Mr. Strong, I found this quote from you from 5/7/2008
The above is a picture of PRO BODYBUILDER Melvin Anthony.
This looks “fat and bloated” to you?
I think it is clear your goals are not that of bodybuilding yet you are arguing as if they are.
Why?
Also, since you already look “extraordinary”, I am sure you would have no problem showing what you look like.
[quote]Mr. Strong wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
I love how everyone giving out the “stay really lean” spiel is tiny themselves and isnt spouting it because it works but rather because they figure if they keep telling themselves (and others) it works well then maybe it will.
sorry, it wont.
I don’t understand your post, where did I say stay really lean?
Why are you so fascinated about the size of the person making a comment, do they have to be 300lbs for their opinion to matter?
When you are at school or college, do you listen to your sport and exercise teachers, or do you tell them what is right because you are bigger than them?
Would you take advice from a bodybuilder such as Frank Zane, even though he was never very heavy?
[/quote]
the reason size plays a factor is because the goal of bodybuilding is to put on muscle-size and be aesthetically appealing. if you claim your method is better than what the majority has used i would expect for you to have somehow benefited from your own methodology, which you havent.
i dont have sport and exercise teachers and its relative to the sport. would a football coach know more than me about football? yes. would he know more about than bodybuilding? highly doubtful.
frank zane also looks better at like 60 or so than 90% of the people who post here in their 20s.
theres no need to continue on with all this. youll have something relevant to say when you show me someone whos made good gains using that style of eating.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Mr. Strong wrote:
I did answer your question, your comment was untrue. You originally did not ask for specifics. How about you answer my question which you avoided.
Please explain what is wrong with the approach I mentioned?
Could you outline the goals of the average person, and how you went about collecting the data used to support your conclusions? As you seem to know more than me on the subject of other people goals.
I just told you what was wrong with it. Very few people will ever reach a level of muscularity considered “extreme” in any way by following the approach you recommended.
One can only guess that you are avoiding answering what your goals are because you know you fall into that category of those with average gains and average goals.
If you don’t, I am sure your current stats or even a picture could clear that right up and then we could move on.
People who jump up to exclaim what you did are rarely the guys with 20" arms.
Please, prove me wrong.
What are your stats and goals?[/quote]
Define what is an average goal before I give you an answer, otherwise how do I know you are not just making it up, what was your process for collecting the data used to draw your conclusions about goals? Or is it based on your opinion and not backed by any research into the area? You said very few people will succeed using this method, have you done any research into this area to draw such a conclusion?
Could you explain with something other than your opinion why the method I outlined will not work?
[quote]Mr. Strong wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Mr. Strong wrote:
I did answer your question, your comment was untrue. You originally did not ask for specifics. How about you answer my question which you avoided.
Please explain what is wrong with the approach I mentioned?
Could you outline the goals of the average person, and how you went about collecting the data used to support your conclusions? As you seem to know more than me on the subject of other people goals.
I just told you what was wrong with it. Very few people will ever reach a level of muscularity considered “extreme” in any way by following the approach you recommended.
One can only guess that you are avoiding answering what your goals are because you know you fall into that category of those with average gains and average goals.
If you don’t, I am sure your current stats or even a picture could clear that right up and then we could move on.
People who jump up to exclaim what you did are rarely the guys with 20" arms.
Please, prove me wrong.
What are your stats and goals?
Define what is an average goal before I give you an answer, otherwise how do I know you are not just making it up, what was your process for collecting the data used to draw your conclusions about goals? Or is it based on your opinion and not backed by any research into the area? You said very few people will succeed using this method, have you done any research into this area to draw such a conclusion?
Could you explain with something other than your opinion why the method I outlined will not work?[/quote]
Someone with an above average goal wouldn’t need that defined for them. They would already realize that they are shooting for more than most, making what most achieve painfully obvious.
Further, the fact that you seem to only be able to see the world through the eyes of scientific studies makes you the poster-child for those who act as if theory overshadows experience.
I don’t need a study to look around the gym or GYMS I have trained in over the years. I don’t need a study to observe what the majority of posters on this site over the last 8 years have been able to achieve.
If you actually do need a study to observe the world around you, then I pity you…and I am sure your end results will be far less than those not so confined by their own thought processes.
I asked you for your stats. You are now playing games so that you can avoid giving that info out.
Someone already above average would know it. They would relish it because it took hard work to achieve. They would be proud of it and wouldn’t cower because they were challenged on it.
You aren’t fooling anyone…but yourself.
Either post your stats and your goals or simply walk away.
Results are the issue here, not talk. Either show your own, or shut the fuck up.
So many people have been led astray by people like you…those who hide behind computer keyboards while acting like their lack of outstanding progress can be overlooked because of how many studies they can quote.
I do believe it is about time for people like you to either show their own “extraordinary” progress, or to wither into the background so others can truly become EXTRAORDINARY.
Talk is cheap, Mr Strong.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Mr. Strong, I found this quote from you from 5/7/2008
I already look extraordinary, I always use full ROM, should I start using partial ROM so I can look like a fat bloated pro bodybuilder?
The above is a picture of PRO BODYBUILDER Melvin Anthony.
This looks “fat and bloated” to you?
I think it is clear your goals are not that of bodybuilding yet you are arguing as if they are.
Why?
Also, since you already look “extraordinary”, I am sure you would have no problem showing what you look like.[/quote]
That comment did sound a bit arrogant, I didn’t realise at the time, it was not meant to sound so bigheaded, more light hearted was the intention. I’m suprised you could be bothered to dig it up.
I’m more interested in the benefits of natualr bodybuilding, I am not a fan of the current state of bodybuilding, so the picture you posted does not impress me for obvious reasons. If he reached that level with out the “extra” help then it might mean something.
[quote]Mr. Strong wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Mr. Strong, I found this quote from you from 5/7/2008
I already look extraordinary, I always use full ROM, should I start using partial ROM so I can look like a fat bloated pro bodybuilder?
The above is a picture of PRO BODYBUILDER Melvin Anthony.
This looks “fat and bloated” to you?
I think it is clear your goals are not that of bodybuilding yet you are arguing as if they are.
Why?
Also, since you already look “extraordinary”, I am sure you would have no problem showing what you look like.
That comment did sound a bit arrogant, I didn’t realise at the time, it was not meant to sound so bigheaded, more light hearted was the intention. I’m suprised you could be bothered to dig it up.
I’m more interested in the benefits of natualr bodybuilding, I am not a fan of the current state of bodybuilding, so the picture you posted does not impress me for obvious reasons. If he reached that level with out the “extra” help then it might mean something.[/quote]
Right. It does not surprise me that someone like you would see someone like that and claim it means nothing.
“Someone like you”, you’d think I had insulted a family member, and not tried to discuss sport & Exercise.
[quote]Mr. Strong wrote:
“Someone like you”, you’d think I had insulted a family member, and not tried to discuss sport & Exercise.[/quote]
But we are discussing BODYBUILDING. In BODYBUILDING, results are the most important factor, not talk about what someone who has achieved little would LIKE to see.
We are discussing building muscle and I have made this point enough times that for you to even imply that we are simply discussing some general concept of “sport and exercise” is pretty fucking lame.
Stats and goals?
Stats and goals?
Stats and goals?
Stats and goals?
Stats and goals?
Stats and goals?
Stats and goals?
Stats and goals?
Stats and goals?
Stats and goals?
Hmmm… I’ve noticed that kind of attitude in many natties.
They think bulking only works if you’re on, try to stay fairly lean and thus we have so many natties looking like beginners/early intermediates on stage…
This starts a vicious circle of people thinking that 180 lbs at 5’11 or so is all you can naturally achieve (contest shape), that you shouldn’t bother bulking, that you need all kinds of mega-complicated programs and whatnot…
I seem to gain muscular weight much quicker when staying at a higher bodyfat percentage
(say, 16-20), my joints hurt less when training (I think Dante made a comment on that some time ago, too, but don’t take my word for it), etc…
Perhaps the body, is more “at ease” when fat stores aren’t depleted, and will then allow more muscle to be built/ built faster ?
Just a theory, and I know that some have gone through different experiences, but since there are no appropriate studies available for this… (big emphasis on “appropriate”)
I guess this has been brought up before, and english is not my first language, so I apologize in advance.
One long-winded first post huh…
Maybe he’s confused. Stong, here’s an example of stats:
Height 5’9"
Weight 208
Waist 36"
BF% unsure, probably around 18%
and here is an example of goals:
Long term: Look like Marius Pudzianowski, which for my height will probably be around 260
Short term: get stronger while leaning out a little bit, in preparation for a long bulk starting early next year.
Now that I’ve given you an example, I’m going to take a guess at your goals, and you can correct me if I’m wrong
Goals:
Long Term: look like an Ethiopian marathon runner
Short Term: See some HAWT ABZZZ!!!