And the chances of getting caught using cocaine, marijuana, meth, etc. are pretty low aswell. My point isn’t whether someone can get in while using illegal drugs, it is that some people would rather not take the risk at all which I think should be pretty understandable. I could give a fuck if some cop out in Lexington made it through on whatever drug by being a good liar, doesn’t mean I or anyone else should take that risk when they don;t need to.[/quote]
Which is a point I acknowledged. Again, if you’re willing to base such a decision on the infinitesimal chance of getting caught, then fine. But I reserve the right to question it as a legitimate risk.[/quote]
You have the right to question whatever you want, and I reserve the right to question your questioning. See how that works? = a discussion.
[/quote]
You must never have smoked weed. many many people get busted for pot.[/quote]
Steroids were the drug in question here, but we can open up that line of discussion if you want. Without derailing the thread from the topic at hand, I’ll say you may want to consider how many people smoke weed relative to how many people do steroids.
[quote]anonym wrote:
Out of curiosity, HeavyTriple, what is it that you do for a living?[/quote]
Same thing you do ;).[/quote]
Do you feel that the statistical risk of being caught using/possessing steroids isn’t the only factor that comes into play when questioning the legality of using?
For example, take three people:
Single gas station attendant with no education beyond HS.
Guy with Bachelor’s degree, wife/2.5 kids, white picket fence and mortgage
Recent medical school graduate, 100k+ in debt and with 4+ years of post-undergrad education
The more you have going on in your life that can be taken away by a possession charge, the more significant those statistics might seem.
The chances of getting busted might be .01%… but, to the married man, what happens to his wife/kids/house if he is “that” guy who gets caught and loses his job? What happens to the MD who is faced with the distinct possibility that he might have to spend the next few years paying his student loans off with the money he makes delivering pizzas as he searches for a hospital/clinic whose HR manager is a little more relaxed about drug convictions?[/quote]
I’m very much aware of those things and took into account all ranges of the economic spectrum when I made my original point, which is why I said “the career is irrelevant.” Again this is why I said I can understand the perspective while still finding it questionable. People use that same logic when they refuse to fly. I don’t.[/quote]
Your missing the point I think. I agree a person’s career is irrelevant when considering the chances of getting caught, but it is VERY relevant when weighing the risks vs. rewards. Any reasonable person would understand that someone with more to lose will have a greater risk when making the decision whether or not to use any drug. Who risks more when using an illegal drug, the President or a taxi driver?? (I know this is an extreme example, but it is to make a point)
Your missing the point I think. I agree a person’s career is irrelevant when considering the chances of getting caught, but it is VERY relevant when weighing the risks vs. rewards. Any reasonable person would understand that someone with more to lose will have a greater risk when making the decision whether or not to use any drug. Who risks more when using an illegal drug, the President or a taxi driver?? (I know this is an extreme example, but it is to make a point)[/quote]
I understand your point…seriously. My contention is that the risk is so absurdly small that even someone who has a lot at stake shouldn’t consider it too much. That’s where we are disagreeing. Also, what’s getting lost in all this is that just about any middle-aged man on this forum could legally obtain steroids, thus negating this entire argument of legality.
[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
Also, what’s getting lost in all this is that just about any middle-aged man on this forum could legally obtain steroids, thus negating this entire argument of legality.[/quote]
This really is not true. HRT with physiological levels is perfectly legal. 100-150 mg or so per week of straight Test, yeah sure. Want an AI and some HCG on top of that? No problem.
But when you get into these life extension clinics prescribing 300+ mg/week, with Deca, Anavar, and HGH to boot, you are really moving into a grey area. The risk is more so on the docs (these places are getting busted left and right) but don’t think that you are immune from the watchful eye of our nanny government.
Most professional companies, ie anything that requires a degree, ora manufacturing environment will drug test before hiring someone. In the latter, if there is ever a recordable incident they also run a drug test to verify you weren’t inhibited by an illegal drug, which would void your coverage and ultimately your job.
Now, with that being said, I believe testing for steroids requires something beyond the standard drug test and costs more money. This reduces the likelihood that you would get caught being on AS. However, I think most companies that are truly aware would spend the extra buck to check for drug abuse if an incident happened and said person walked around with the proportions of the hulk.
Just some food for thought to add to the conversation.
[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
Most professional companies, ie anything that requires a degree, ora manufacturing environment will drug test before hiring someone. In the latter, if there is ever a recordable incident they also run a drug test to verify you weren’t inhibited by an illegal drug, which would void your coverage and ultimately your job.
Now, with that being said, I believe testing for steroids requires something beyond the standard drug test and costs more money. This reduces the likelihood that you would get caught being on AS. However, I think most companies that are truly aware would spend the extra buck to check for drug abuse if an incident happened and said person walked around with the proportions of the hulk.
Just some food for thought to add to the conversation.[/quote]
No, you’re not going to be tested for steroids in a corporate job. Law enforcement, military etc, yes.
I’ve been training since 1976 (just turned 50) and have never used, but I have a lot of friends/acquaintances who have used or are using. One reason I haven’t is that I would feel like I lowered my principles if, after being natural for so long, I suddenly went over to the “dark side”.
Not that I think I’m better than anyone else, so let’s get that clear. I’m just proud of what I’ve accomplished naturally, even though those accomplishments pale in comparison with some others, but so be it. I would be hypocritical if I said I’d never considered using and believe anyone who has ever been serious about lifting has at least considered the idea.
The legalities weren’t an issue in years past but now I have very good reason be wary. One of my training partners served time for selling juice and I know I’m “on the radar”. Guilt by association, I guess. I know this because we used to train in my garage gym and every day, like clockwork, cops just happened to drive by my house. They harassed him because they didn’t like the fact that he only served a fraction of his sentence. We moved my equipment to another building and the traffic slowed down drastically, so I know I’m not paranoid.
Knowledge is another issue. I simply haven’t done enough research on the subject and would never consider doing anything until I could make an informed decision.
I do have one more thing to add. It really pisses me off when I hear people make blanket statements like “juicers train harder than nattys” or you’re somehow not “hardcore” if not juicing. For some this may be true but as for me, it’s complete bullshit. I may not be huge or able to train with the same poundages or frequency as someone who is using PHDs, but I bust my ass in the gym just as hard as anyone, juicing or not.
I do have one more thing to add. It really pisses me off when I hear people make blanket statements like “juicers train harder than nattys” or you’re somehow not “hardcore” if not juicing. For some this may be true but as for me, it’s complete bullshit. I may not be huge or able to train with the same poundages or frequency as someone who is using PHDs, but I bust my ass in the gym just as hard as anyone, juicing or not. [/quote]
I have never heard that, actually most people tout the opposite of what you said.
I do have one more thing to add. It really pisses me off when I hear people make blanket statements like “juicers train harder than nattys” or you’re somehow not “hardcore” if not juicing. For some this may be true but as for me, it’s complete bullshit. I may not be huge or able to train with the same poundages or frequency as someone who is using PHDs, but I bust my ass in the gym just as hard as anyone, juicing or not. [/quote]
I have never heard that, actually most people tout the opposite of what you said.[/quote]
Agreed its always the opposite. Those on steroids dont train hard…what bunch of BS. That shows ignorance when you think that steroids make you big without hard work in the gym. I dare you to try it and see if you can slap on 20lbs of muscle
I do have one more thing to add. It really pisses me off when I hear people make blanket statements like “juicers train harder than nattys” or you’re somehow not “hardcore” if not juicing. For some this may be true but as for me, it’s complete bullshit. I may not be huge or able to train with the same poundages or frequency as someone who is using PHDs, but I bust my ass in the gym just as hard as anyone, juicing or not. [/quote]
I have never heard that, actually most people tout the opposite of what you said.[/quote]
Agreed its always the opposite. Those on steroids dont train hard…what bunch of BS. That shows ignorance when you think that steroids make you big without hard work in the gym. I dare you to try it and see if you can slap on 20lbs of muscle[/quote]
I do have one more thing to add. It really pisses me off when I hear people make blanket statements like “juicers train harder than nattys” or you’re somehow not “hardcore” if not juicing. For some this may be true but as for me, it’s complete bullshit. I may not be huge or able to train with the same poundages or frequency as someone who is using PHDs, but I bust my ass in the gym just as hard as anyone, juicing or not. [/quote]
I have never heard that, actually most people tout the opposite of what you said.[/quote]
Agreed its always the opposite. Those on steroids dont train hard…what bunch of BS. That shows ignorance when you think that steroids make you big without hard work in the gym. I dare you to try it and see if you can slap on 20lbs of muscle[/quote]
Was the last remark directed at me?[/quote]
It was directed at people who say that you dont need to train hard while on steroids. So if you are one of those people then yes that comment was directed at you
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
I’m assuming those are government jobs? I didn’t mean government jobs when I said corporate. If they are then I stand corrected.[/quote]
Actually more than just civil service. Some of the contractors as well.
I do have one more thing to add. It really pisses me off when I hear people make blanket statements like “juicers train harder than nattys” or you’re somehow not “hardcore” if not juicing. For some this may be true but as for me, it’s complete bullshit. I may not be huge or able to train with the same poundages or frequency as someone who is using PHDs, but I bust my ass in the gym just as hard as anyone, juicing or not. [/quote]
I have never heard that, actually most people tout the opposite of what you said.[/quote]
Agreed its always the opposite. Those on steroids dont train hard…what bunch of BS. That shows ignorance when you think that steroids make you big without hard work in the gym. I dare you to try it and see if you can slap on 20lbs of muscle[/quote]
Wait what? According to TornadoTommy people say that juicers train harder than nattys. Optheta say that people say natty train harder than juicers. What you wrote makes no sense.