I spoke to a guy in the gym that moves heavy weight and has a great build. He always tells me he’s natural, but he also says he did juice “back in his college ball days”. As far as I’m concerned he’s not natural. What defines natural? To me natural means that one has NEVER used a banned or illegal substance. My guess is that you keep alot of the juice induced muscle and strength. Opinions…thoughts?
If someone did gear a long time ago, I’d still consider them natural, as they are no longer enhanced from its effects.
Guess a clear cut way is if they can pass a piss test (without any trickery).
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
If someone did gear a long time ago, I’d still consider them natural, as they are no longer enhanced from its effects.
Guess a clear cut way is if they can pass a piss test (without any trickery).[/quote]
If you stop taking steroids for long enough, you will pass a piss test without any trickery. But you might have been on steroids for the last 5 years and just stopped a month before the test. In my book, your still unnatural…
Unless you are competeing in a sport that clearly defines what is natural, then it is irrelevant. There is nothing natural about any of the legal supplements. There is nothing natural about intentionally breaking down your muscles to make them bigger and stronger. If the cavemen didn’t do it, it ain’t natural. Now if you want judge someone based on ethics or legality, that is a totally different subject, but before you do, you might want to ask yourself if you are a perfect law abiding citizen.
I think most natural BBing federations give you a 7 year window. Still, a lot of guys will juice their brains out in college and then come off later on. I recently read an interview with the rock, where he admits to using gear when he played college football (but come on, the guy’s about 6’something, about 260 lbs, with very low bodyfat!). No one grills him about using anything recently, but of course the foundation was built already.
Still, I’m not one of those guys who questions how ‘natural’ using creatine is, because lets face it, supplements like creatine can be obtained from food anyway. The example I always give is babe Ruth. He ate several large steaks each day, so I’m certain his creatine stores were pretty topped off -lol
S
There’s no real, concrete definition. You’d have to be more specific by asking if he’s “lifetime” natural, 10 years natural, six weeks natural and on and on.
By “natural” I’m sure the question is about either steroids or GH, maybe insulin. Not creatine or protein powders.
[quote]jstreet0204 wrote:
Unless you are competeing in a sport that clearly defines what is natural, then it is irrelevant. There is nothing natural about any of the legal supplements. There is nothing natural about intentionally breaking down your muscles to make them bigger and stronger. If the cavemen didn’t do it, it ain’t natural. Now if you want judge someone based on ethics or legality, that is a totally different subject, but before you do, you might want to ask yourself if you are a perfect law abiding citizen.[/quote]
dude we are talking about working out here. No shit the cavemen didnt workout. What does that have to do with anything?
This is a bodybuilding website, so is it just me, or is it natural to assume we are gonna be talking about workingout?
Sorry about the flame, but theres no need at all to be 100% technical.
Back to the subject, I would consider natural as not using any illegal substances (test boosters, growth hormone etc.) Taking supplements bought at GNC and other places i would still consider natural.
[quote]wildfirepb wrote:
dude we are talking about working out here. No shit the cavemen didnt workout. What does that have to do with anything?
This is a bodybuilding website, so is it just me, or is it natural to assume we are gonna be talking about workingout?
Sorry about the flame, but theres no need at all to be 100% technical.
[/quote]
I know exactly what we are talking about here. Point being bodybuilding is not natural. What you or I consider ethical is subjective.
You can buy prohormones at GNC. How is that any more natural than injecting test?
Because the FDA hasn’t banned those particular PH’s? Come on.
[quote]jstreet0204 wrote:
wildfirepb wrote:
dude we are talking about working out here. No shit the cavemen didnt workout. What does that have to do with anything?
This is a bodybuilding website, so is it just me, or is it natural to assume we are gonna be talking about workingout?
Sorry about the flame, but theres no need at all to be 100% technical.
I know exactly what we are talking about here. Point being bodybuilding is not natural. What you or I consider ethical is subjective.
[/quote]
Good post.
Me.
[quote]GetSwole wrote:
You can buy prohormones at GNC. How is that any more natural than injecting test?
Because the FDA hasn’t banned those particular PH’s? Come on.[/quote]
- 2 for whatever you were trying to say. I think it’s a tired, stupid, and worn argument/question, because there’s always different opinions on what constitutes someone as being natural. Can we just drop it already?
Just Curious GetSwole what Prohormones can you buy at GNC? obviously theres nothing like MAG-10 still kicking around but Id like to know if theres still some ph’s available?
I think there’s a difference between lifetime natural and natural. Those who’ve used ‘aids’ at some point have had an boost in developing size and strength that lifetime naturals have never had. It makes a difference. Call the ‘aid’ what you will. Anything [steroid, prosteroid, prohormone], legal or illegal, that takes hormones to supraphysiological levels provides benefits that other substances can’t approach. Having said that, I don’t think it ultimately matters so much. You still need to put the work and time in at the gym and in the kitchen to build a good physique, asssisted or not.
[quote]jsbrook wrote:
I think there’s a difference between lifetime natural and natural. Those who’ve used ‘aids’ at some point have had an boost in developing size and strength that lifetime naturals have never had. It makes a difference. Call the ‘aid’ what you will. Anything [steroid, prosteroid, prohormone], legal or illegal, that takes hormones to supraphysiological levels provides benefits that other substances can’t approach. Having said that, I don’t think it ultimately matters so much. You still need to put the work and time in at the gym and in the kitchen to build a good physique, asssisted or not.[/quote]
Good post jsbrook.
I have used steroids before. Hell, I’ve used alot of it though in what I consider very sane and logical protocols. At my peak I was 215 lbs. Roughly a year and a half later with NO anabolic usage, I am 205 lbs. NOT alot of difference actually.
There is definite truth in the saying that if you’ve used before, you are a big leg up than if you never used before.
Natural? Steroid free. As in never used. And Pro-Hormones? THEY ARE STEROIDS.
So there.
But why does it matter? Who cares if someone used steroids?
To be honest does anyone REALLY care if someone is natural or not ???
I mean does the guy deserve less respect for injecting something ??
So ya lets get pissy at people who wanted to be the best they can be !
Lets all join body for life !
Your argument sucks.
[quote]Corkonian wrote:
To be honest does anyone REALLY care if someone is natural or not ???
[/quote]
YES.
Obviously – since people are talking about it – people CARE.
When I watch BJ Penn wreck some guy on UFC, I respect him, because I think “Wow, that guy is just a regular guy, like me, he just worked really hard at something and now he’s an amazing fighter”.
When I look at Arnold, I still have respect, but I have the subconscious thought that he did user steroids and therefore what he has is not accessible to me, because I’m not going to put my body through such ridiculous risks (my thoughts on steroids may be unpopular here, but I still think they are unnecessary and unsafe).
It doesn’t matter what he DESERVES – just what he GETS.
I think steriod users get less respect than non-steroid users.
Imagine people found out Ms America was really a guy with a really good plastic surgeon. Would she (he) still DESERVE the title? I say “hell yea, everyone thought she was a hottie, so who cares”, but everyone knows she (he) would be none of that respect.
Yes I am comparing steroids to a sex change. (You’re taking a tonne of male hormones in one case – female hormones with a bit of knife work in the other)
Do your best. Steroids are your choice, but know the consequences, physically AND socially.
[quote]
Lets all join body for life ![/quote]
Nobody’s stopping you. Go for it! 
Yes steroid users deserve less respect. Quite simply put, its EASIER to gain size/mass/whatever when using AAS. Hard work is generally respected, not people taking the “Easy way”, although anyone with sense realizes that there comes a point when you want to be bigger, you must use drugs.
Yes they put hard work in and are dedicated, but the dedication to gain 50 pounds while on a cycle is much less than someone who gained 50 pounds being natural. If two guys came up to me and both weighed the same, were same height, looked the exat same, and one is a life long natural, the other has been “on” for 3-4 years, the natural gets more respect form almost everyone.